Wolverine's recent chronology

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:35 pm

You're right, Somebody. There's a reference in AmX2 5 to Logan not having his healing factor. Thanks for pointing that out.

So now we have a circular conundrum. If Gambit's appearance in his classic costume (non-Serval) in AmX2 6 occurs before he joins X-Factor in ANXF 1-12, and ANXF 1-12 occurs before Havok's face is scarred in UA 7-22, and UA 7-22 occurs before Logan loses his healing factor, and AmX2 1-6 occur after Logan loses his healing power, we have to break the circle somewhere.

I don't know if Havok's scarred face is his new status quo; we'll need to see what happens in the next issue of UA. Maybe he gets healed; there are certainly enough healers around.
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:54 pm

Isn't Gambit, spying for Wolverine, like Quicksilver is for Havok in the Avengers? Couldn't Gambit be dropping by to give Wolverine info? (without his Serval uniform)?

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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:39 am

Don't know. Could you provide more context?
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:31 am

Looking back at All-New X-Factor #1, I'm mistaken about the motivation of Gambit. It appears he is recruited by Polaris after being reprimanded by Wolverine for neglecting his responsibilities and goes with Polaris because he is intrigued, but I still think there are enough breaks in X-Factor for him to step out not wearing the corporate uniform even if he did join them.

Both Gambit and Havok appear in Amazing X-Men v2 #6 and Havok is uninjured at Nightcrawler's return party.

I guess the question will come down to is Havok permanently scarred? (and how he will deal with this)? If he uses an image inducer I think we might be in the clear.

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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:37 pm

Uncanny Avengers #23 comes out this week, so we'll see (hopefully)!
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:15 am

A lot will hinge on Havok. Here's the circular chronology (now factoring in X-Force):

AmX2 1-6 -- Gambit in old costume w/X-Men; Havok unscarred; Logan has lost healing factor
ANXF 1-4 -- Gambit and Polaris join Serval's X-Factor, get new uniforms
XFOR4 2 -- Polaris in X-Factor uniform; Havok unscarred; Logan (in plain clothes) is inconclusive
UA 7-22 -- Havok is scarred; but Logan has healing factor

Those issues of AmX2, ANXF, and XFOR4 are probably best placed between the time Logan loses his power and gets his new armored costume. Havok's unscarred face is going to have to be explained as healed or the result of an image inducer.

I think I'll read UA 23 first this evening...
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:27 am

Added MSM3 6-7 to one of the chronologies I posted earlier.
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:29 am

Okay, so I read UA 23 last night, and...hmmm.

UA 23 is set "several weeks" after UA 22 and is clearly meant to be set post-Original Sin. Steve Rogers is old and frail, and Logan has lost his power and wears his armored costume. UA 23 is tied into the current Cap story arc, which is ramping up to the upcoming Sixis crossover. Given past chronological proposals, this all isn't necessarily bad, since a gap (likely more than several weeks) would have to occur if UA 7-22 is truly set before Logan loses his healing factor. (And note that UA 7 needs to occur right after UXFOR2 15, since Storm's X-Force team is shown together in L.A. in both issues. So, yes, UA 7-22 need to occur a while ago.)

However, during that entire time, not only has Havok been scarred, but it appears that he, along with Rogue and Sunfire, has been in some kind of stasis tube, meaning that he can't appear at all in any other comics (scarred or not) during the lengthy gap between UA 22 and 23. Say what? Then what about Havok's appearance in AmX2 6, which occurs after Logan loses his healing power and before he gets his armored costume?

I don't know if Remender meant for Havok et al to be in those tubes the entire time, but that just can't be the case. My guess is that the Beast has been periodically checking on Havok et al by running tests while they are in the tubes. (Why they have to be examined all together is beyond me. Hank would save on tubes if he did the work one patient at a time.) The periodic tube time would allow Havok to appear in other comics, and we'd have to explain his normal appearance in those comics as the result of an image inducer.

The image inducer would also explain Havok's unscarred face in XFOR4 2, which will need to happen after AmX2 6, given Gambit's and Polaris's chronologies.

So why hasn't Havok been healed? Beast explains that "Havok's body processes cosmic radiation like a generator...His immune system absolutely rejects skin grafts, making plastic surgery all but impossible. I'm afraid he will remain horribly disfigured." So, Hank...you didn't try enlisting the aid of any supernatural healers you know? Yikes.

Getting back to the stasis tubes, Havok isn't the only one who's made appearances since UA 22. Rogue appears in FF5 2, which occurs after Logan gets his armor and before Original Sin. She's also BTS in ANI 3. Wonder Man has been inside Rogue's head the entire time between UA 22 and 23, and there's nothing in FF5 2 to suggest Simon isn't BTS in her mind.

Sunfire appears in TB2 27, but that issue could occur after UA 23.

I should say there are still a few problems with the placement of UA 7-22. In UA 9, Simon sees the mutated Beast for the first time. That can't be right, since now we know that their appearance together in A+X 12 needs to occur before UA 7. Simon can't make any appearances in his own body after UA 7-22.

UA 7-22 occur right after Cap's Dimension Z adventure; that adventure is explicitly referenced as having occurred "a few days" ago in UA 10. Cap's current story arc seems to occur very shortly after his return from Dimension Z, but a gap needs to be placed in the run of CA7, likely between CA7 11 and 12, coinciding with the "several weeks"-long gap between UA 22 and 23.

Before I revise the proposed chronology, are there other issues out there, or perhaps other ways of having apparent inconsistencies in continuity make sense?
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:05 am

If Wolverine did not have his healing factor during this adventure, would that solve most of the majority of the problems?

Sunfire is an energy being henceforth.
Havok is scarred.
Wonder Man exists in Rogue.

The other noticeable thing is Thor having what appears to be his hammer after Original Sin, maybe we'll get some answers in some future issues.

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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:45 am

If Wolverine did not have his healing factor during this adventure, would that solve most of the majority of the problems?
That might create other problems. First, Wolverine appears in his old costume in the UA arc. Granted, he continued to wear that costume after he lost his powers, so that would push UA further toward the present, but maybe not far enough.

Second, we do have the beginning of the UA 7-22 arc tying in with Storm's X-Force team's L.A. adventure in XFOR2 15, and that has to happen quite some time ago.

Sunfire could be more of a problem than Havok. He appears in the recent Thunderbolts #27 in his classic costume; he's not the energy being in yellow that results from UA 7-22. For Sunfire's chronology to make sense, we'd have to move all the TB issues to a spot before UA 7-22, and that's a long time ago. Thunderbolts #27 also features Logan in his armored costume. Another circular chronology results. Or maybe energy Sunfire dons his old costume again?? Ugh.

And I don't think we can put a gap in the long UA 7-22 arc that would make sense for the story or entirely help solve the continuity conundrums.


PS: No one remarked about the "Sixis" reference. Love that clever graphic logo for Axis :wink:
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:51 pm

Wolverine has his healing factor in UAV 7-22; Sunfire has him constantly burning for years (forced by Daken, of course); he can only survive that to send his consciousness to the past if he had his powers at the time.
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:49 pm

If it weren't for UA 7-22, I don't think there'd be any continuity issues. This is the classic problem of a story arc that goes on (and on) for far too long. The beginning of the arc was supposed to be set contemporaneously to comics published at that time, but the end seems to want to be placed contemporaneously to comics published a year later.

You can't ignore that Logan has his power in this arc, and you can't really ignore the Storm/X-Force reference. But that means Sunfire's going to have to appear normal in his old costume at a later time (after Logan has his armor), that Havok's face has to appear undamaged at a later time (in several comics no less), and that Wonder Man seems to have forgotten seeing the mutated Beast prior to the arc (in A+X 12).

No prizes up for grabs:
1) Energy Sunfire donned a new costume based on his old design before switching to yellow.
2) Havok made liberal use of an image inducer and didn't spend the entire time in a tube between UX 22 and 23.
3) Simon had a brain freeze and Beast didn't want to call attention to it.

Okay, other problems? What am I forgetting?
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:04 am

This week's issue of Wolverine (#12) has a concrete ending that allows more stories to occur between this issue and the Death of Wolverine.

I think our chronology is shaping up now, with several inconsistencies that will require us to explain them away.

Is there anything else we need to consider that we haven't covered?
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:27 am

Uh oh.

Mystique appears in Deadpool #29 posing as SHIELD agent Dazzler. Immediately after Deadpool chats with Dazzler/Mystique,
Spoiler:
the Watcher's Eye explodes in Manhattan
.

As we currently have it, Mystique stops posing as Dazzler LONG before the Original Sin crossover. Now, because of Deadpool's Original Sin tie-in, Mystique can't stop posing as Dazzler until after the Original Sin crossover. That means UX3 17-25 & ANX 22-30 have to happen after Original Sin. BUT! Wolverine learns (and is SHOCKED!) in UX3 24/ANX 30 that Cyclops is living in the old Weapon X facility, something he already knows in W6 4-FB. However, W6 4-FB & W6 1-12 all have to happen before Original Sin (for the reasons laid out earlier, involving Avengers memberships and the Superior Spider-Man). So why is Wolverine so shocked to find out something he already knows in UX3 24/ANX 30? I don't know, maybe he's drunk.

How does this affect the chronology we've laid out? Does this cause any larger problems I'm not seeing at the moment?

And how do we explain the Watcher's appearance in ANX 25?
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Re: Wolverine's recent chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:09 am

Thanks for posting that conundrum, Fury. Here's another.

W&X2 1-8 -- Armor loses her power. Logan appears in old costume.
NC4 1-4 -- Logan has new armored costume.
NC4 5-6 -- Armor has her power.

Argh. Either Armor regains her power in an as-yet published story, or Logan's new armored costume was in the wash in W&X2. And if Logan can appear once in his old costume after adopting the armor, then that opens the possibility that he did so more than once.
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