Original Sin chronology

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:30 pm

Now that Original Sin is done, I'd like to work on a chronology of events for the MU during this series, which takes only "days" to occur (according to OS 8).

First, I want to address any necessary gaps that need to be placed during Original Sin. Specifically, we need to address Thor's new inability to lift Mjolnir, which I suspect will lead to the new female Thor.*

So we have the following two scenes:
OS 3 (1-6) -- The heroes are blasted with secrets unleashed from Uatu's eye; one of the secrets is that Thor has a sister.
OS 7 -- Thor loses his ability to lift Mjolnir, which we see in both OS 7 and 8.

We'd need to place Thor in Original Sin #5.1-5.5 between these two scenes, since Thor has learned that he has a sister and is able to wield Mjolnir.

We'd also need to place the following sequence of comics between OS 3 and 7:
All-New Invaders #6-7 -- Radiance learns a secret from the explosion of Uatu's eye.
All-New Invaders #8-10 -- Continues directly from ANI 6-7.
Avengers v5 #25-28 -- Issue 28 ties in directly with ANI 8.
Avengers v5 #29-35 -- Thor can still wield Mjolnir.

*But hold on! Captain America is still normal at the end of Original Sin. He ages in the story arc presented in CA7 12-25, which is ramping up to Axis. And Thor is seen in this arc, able to wield Mjolnir (most recently in CA7 24)! What the what??
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Emerald_616 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:27 pm

The Thor & Cap chronology is about Remender being loose with simultaneous continuity that he did not make.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:26 pm

Perhaps so, but now we have to "make it work." (Apologies to Tim Gunn.)
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:19 am

I don't like inventing things behind the scenes, but maybe Thor is using a hammer similar to the clone of him. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Thor: God of Thunder #25 comes out on the 17th.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:52 am

More evidence of Thor using his hammer after Original Sin:

At the end of CA7 25, Thor is seen lifting the hammer in celebration of Sam Wilson's inauguration as Captain America. So Thor's aforementioned appearance with the hammer in CA7 24 is less likely to ignore.

Yet, the first issue of the new Thor series implies that Thor has not left the moon for "says," "weeks" since he lost his worthiness to lift Mjolnir in Original Sin #8. During that time, he's been trying in vain to lift it. He no longer wears his armored costume but is bare-chested with a cape. He takes an battleax from Asgardia's armory
Spoiler:
and loses his left hand in a battle with Malekith
.

Given those events, how on earth do we explain Thor's pre-OS look with hammer in A5 29-34 and CA7 25? A unlikely as it seems, do we really need to open a gap somewhere in Original Sin? That gap would need to accommodate:
All-New Invaders #6-7 -- Radiance learns a secret from the explosion of Uatu's eye.
All-New Invaders #8-10 -- Continues directly from ANI 6-7.
Avengers v5 #25-28 -- Issue 28 ties in directly with ANI 8.
Avengers v5 #29-34 -- Thor can still wield Mjolnir. Rogers is still Cap.
Captain America v7 #12-25 -- Thor can still wield Mjolnir. Rogers gets old and hands Cap ID to Wilson.
Uncanny Avengers #23-25 -- Tie in to the Axis ramp-up at the end of the above Cap arc.
AXIS itself.

That's a lot of time, and heroes who were on Nick Fury's wild-goose chase in Original Sin (e.g., Black Panther, Dr. Strange) appear in CA7 25. It just makes no sense to put a gap in Original Sin for anything but direct OS tie-ins such as the spin-off minis starring Iron Man and Hulk and Thor and Loki.

Argh!
.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:22 am

Could it be Ragnarok? :twisted:

Could it be a Skrull? *doh*

Could it be a fake hammer? :blechh:
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:03 am

I'd go with fake hammer.

We see him in his original costume at the end of original sin and no longer in it when we see him in Thor #1.

So we may have to assume, he returned to Earth to figure out what Fury had done with the Avengers. He appears in whatever comics that happen between, using said "fake" hammer.

Having no luck, he returns to the moon no longer wearing his uniform and spends weeks trying to lift it, becoming more distraught.

So until Marvel gives us an official explanation, I'd play with this theory because it is the least disruptive to the overall chronology of everyone else.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by wolframbane » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:21 pm

OS 5 reveals that Nick Fury had met Howard Stark in 1958. According to SHIELD v1 and v2, Stark had been transported 600,000 years into the future with Nathaniel Richards in 1956 and returned in 1960, bypassing 1958 entirely. It is a time travel story so it can possibly be explained, but sadly the series was never finished.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:50 pm

I'd go with fake hammer.
Hey, do we know if is there a "fake hammer" kicking around for Thor to use, something we may have seen in the past?

We'd have assume that the fake hammer wasn't working for Thor, so he ditched it.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:47 pm

His clone used one. If they could make it for Clor, I don't see why they could not create one for him. I also think Nomad (Ian Rogers) made a comment about how his weapon was working in the Captain America Arc with Thor in it.

(Like I said though, this would have to be an unofficial work around until we had definitive evidence to the contrary.)

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:39 am

Harokin used a fake hammer when he impersonate Thor in Thor 365-366.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:50 pm

Compounded problems...

Thor wears his standard armored costume and wields his hammer in the ramp-up to Axis, and in Axis proper (this week's Avengers & X-Men: Axis #1), he is bare-chested with prosthesis and battleax.

*brickwall*
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:03 pm

I think we can punch some holes in UA 23 to spread out a little time. I don't think Thor appears in UA 24. So Thor #1-? needs to come between UA 23 and Axis. Death of Wolverine will need to come after UA 24.

Original Sin
Captain America (Iron Nail)
UA 23 (1-?)
Wolverine (with Thor in It)
UA 23 (?-?)
Captain America (Zola attacks-New Cap)
Thor 1
UA 24-25 ~The Death of Wolverine happens around the same time after Logan's appearance in UA 24
Axis


The only other big continuity gaf I see that's really obvious is Cap's wanting to take down Iron Man in Avengers and them now being buddy buddy after he becomes a geriatric.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:07 am

After Thor loses the ability to lift Mjolnir in OS 8 and before the events of T4 1, he is called away from his struggle to lift the hammer on the moon for various appearances. Those appearances include the following issues:

Avengers v5 #25-28
A5 28 ties into All-New Invaders #8, which occurs several days after the explosion of secrets from Uatu’s eye (All-New Invaders #6). Original Sin has to have wrapped up by now. These issues aren’t likely to occur during OS.

Avengers v5 #29-33
These are the issues in which Cap acts on the information he learned in OS about the Illuminati. Rogers is still Cap here.

Uncanny Avengers #23
Captain America v7 #22-25

The aftermath of Cap losing his youth and vigor, and the ramp up to Axis.

That’s a total of 14 issues in which Thor is seen with Mjolnir after Original Sin*. Thor's hammer plays an important role in two of those issues:

In A5 27, Thor and his otherworld counterpart are throwing lightning at each other. Thor needs Mjolnir (or a reasonable facsimile) to do that.

In CA7 23, Thor has the following dialog: "You must first greet the hammer of Thor!" (which he then hurls at Ian Rogers). Thor summons lightning with his weapon and strikes Zola's mutates with that lightning later that issue.

(One minor observation: When we see Thor again trying to lift Mjolnir in T4 1, he has to go retrieve Jarnbjorn from the armory; apparently he doesn't keep the axe at his side at all times.)

*Jason, you place Thor's appearances in W6 5, 10 and 12 after Original Sin. Why can't these issues occur before Original Sin?

Added note: I think Thor's appearance with Mjolnir in Inhuman #4 can be placed before OS.

Some time passes between the ramp-up to Axis in UA 23 and CA7 25 and Axis itself (starting with UA 24). As I noted, Thor loses an arm in T4 1, but has both arms in Avengers & X-Men: Axis #1. We'll keep an eye on that point as Axis progresses.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:16 am

Original Sin occurs between Loki: Agent of Asgard #5 and #6. I don't collect this comic, and I haven't see any issues in the Character Watches forum. Does Thor appear there at all?

What about Thor's own comic? Are all those issues pre-OS?
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