Venus series

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Venus series

Post by Somebody » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:24 pm

Just been through the entire Venus series, plus ancillaries. My basic conclusion is that there's no way this can be the siren from the Agents of Atlas retcon - it has to be the Olympian in this series, with the siren only in Agents of Atlas & flashbacks and Marvel: The Lost Generation. The alternative is gutting the series, leaving only a few scattered stories. (Why do we have the series listed only in the siren's chronology, as if it's one-story-per-issue with no other characters involved, anyway? Surely it should at least have had square brackets)

More at the end, after some notes on all the issues...
____________________

Venus 1/1: "Venus" (reprinted in Agents of Atlas HC/vol. 1 TPB)
*Told in fourth-wall breaking flashback to “a few short months ago” when Venus came to Earth.
**Flashbacks where she lives on the planet Venus and has ruled there for centuries before mysteriously being teleported to Earth can't possibly fit with Agents of Atlas retcon origin – they're pretty much exactly what was retconned out.
**The flashbacks where she first meets Whitney Hammond and walks into a wall while trying to phase through it because she's now “a real flesh and blood creature” and everyone thinks she's a bit nuts could fit.
Venus 1/2: Venus: "Beauty Magazine"
*Similarly, told in flashback.
*This time, however, the whole thing doesn't fit with the retcon – it involves her returning to Venus, fetching her handmaidens Cleopatra, Helen of Troy, Salome and seven others and bringing them back to Earth...
Venus 1/3: "Male Mixup!" (non-Venus prose)
*None of the prose stories or backups in the series have anything to do with Venus, they're noted for completeness.
Venus 1/4: Hedy De Vine: "Hedy's Picture Problem"
Venus 1/5: Hey Look! (non-Venus gag strip)
----
Venus 2/1: Venus: "Way Out West!"
*The fourth-wall-breaking framing sequences have been dropped, and the story is told in the present by an omniscient narrator.
*Nothing to prevent this one being the siren.
Venus 2/2: Venus: "Venus Stops the Presses!"
*Again, no problems with the retcon. (Whether it's any good is a different matter!)
Venus 2/3: Hedy De Vine: "Birthday Blues!"
Venus 2/4: "Murder in Minature" (prose)
Venus 2/5: Venus: "Between Two Worlds!"
*And we're back to her teleporting away to Venus, sending a couple of guys who see her vanish mad in the process.
*Note that it claims that “...on Earth, she loses all her supernatural powers, except the power to return to the planet which was named after her! But when she returns to her home planet, she once again has command of all the forces of nature and magic!”

----
Venus 3/1: “Venus Interviews: The Handsomest Man in the World!"
*Fourth wall breaking opener is back, telling the story in flashback.
*There's nothing HUGELY problematic for the siren in the main story – there's a -FB-FB where Venus curses Narcissus to fall in love with his own reflection that can't be real (at least in terms of her actually being involved), but “Rodney Radiant” is merely Narcissus-like rather than confirming the story
*Note that they've forgotten about the “powerless on Earth” thing – instead, she can switch from mortal to divine at will, but she doesn't pull anything *hugely* outside her AoAtlas powerset in the process. Slightly borderline, but it could fit, I think.
Venus 3/2: Hedy De Vine: "Money Mad!"
Venus 3/3: "The Make-Up" (prose)
Venus 3/4: A Special Feature By Venus
*Venus briefly profiles Neptune, Mercury, Echo and Cadmus
Venus 3/5: Venus: "The Day the Sun Stood Still!"
*Yeah, this one can't fit the siren. Venus teleports back to "Mount Olympus where she rules...on the planet Venus", checks up on things, and Apollo follows her back. The sun then stays up until after midnight because he's not there, then Venus goes back to Olympus (...where she has powers…) and points out to Apollo that she's his queen and can depower him at will. Then it finally gets dark.
----
Lana 4/3: Venus: "Royal Turmoil!"
*Could be either. Story's about Della lying to Venus (again) and getting her compuppance.
Marvel Mystery Comics 91/3: Venus: "The Statue That Came To Life!"
*Venus is powerless on Earth, teleports to Olympus-on-Venus ("countless millions of light years back"?!) where she's "supreme goddess of all!". There, Juno (Roman name for Hera) is trying to beat up Leda for allegedly flirting with Jupiter, but is forced to obey her "supreme one"'s command to come to Earth and be a mortal woman. After flirting with a couple of guys and breaking someone's fixation on her, she's sent back. Obviously, can't be the siren.
___

Venus 4/1: Venus: "Whom The Gods Would Destroy"
*Straight out the gate, we've got her teleporting back to Venus and driving a cab driver nuts again. Later in the story, she brings Sampson to Earth for some biblical reenactment.
*Going for "nope, can't be siren"
Venus 4/2: "Out of This World" (prose)
Venus 4/3: Venus: "It's All In The Mind!"
*Could fit with the siren.
Venus 4/4: Hey Look! (gag strip)
Venus 4/5: Venus: "Oh, Doctor!"
*Whitney calls her deluded for the planet Venus "nonsense" and sends her to a shrink. She breaks his brain by maintaining her story. Yup, this one's in both ways!
----
Venus 5/1: Venus: "Her Perilous Quest!" (Chapter 1)
Venus 5/2: Venus: "Defeat!" (Chapter 2)
Venus 5/3: Venus: "The End of the Quest!" (Chapter 3)
*Sudden shifts! Longer stories, more mythologically inclined, with a soft continuity reboot. Venus is now subordinate to Jupiter (all the Greco-Roman gods use Roman names in this series), and she can shift to "goddess shape" and fly off to a "western town", and Apollo's no longer her obsequious stalker/servant, but one of the two "truest sweethearts of all time" with Daphne. Also, sun doesn't stop with him on Earth. It largely depends on Daphne, Apollo and Jupiter being real, so...
Venus 5/4: "Stolen Love" (prose)
Venus 5/5: "The Heart Within Me--DEAD!" ("A True To Life Romance!")
----
Venus 6/1: Venus: "The Earth is in DANGER!" (Chapter One)
*Venus tries to teleport back to Olympus and fails.
*"Loki" appears and it's, well, Mephisto in all but name. A generic devil figure who has nothing in common with the Loki we would later become familiar with, described as "the King of the Lower Regions...banished forever to the Underworld...the Prince of Hades"
Venus 6/2: Venus: "Face-To-Face With The KING OF EVIL!" (Chapter Two)
*Venus teleports to the Underworld, "dank with the odor of death", since she can't go to Venus. Loki has a bunch of deformed demons as servants.
*Loki tells her Jupiter gave him permission to go to Earth, since Venus was allowed. He goes to possess someone on Earth, while Venus has to trick the demons into letting her go.
Venus 6/3: The House Love Built" (prose)
Venus 6/4: Venus: "The Wrath of a Goddess" (Chapter Three)
*Loki's possessed Whitney, and is systematically doing stuff to wind Venus up.
*Venus manages to call Apollo, who's portrayed as an equal to her rather than a servant. He gives her an idea – she turns invisible(!) and manages to draw Loki out of Hammond by promising to marry him.
*Jupiter suddenly pops in and fixes everything, freeing Venus of her promise and rebanishing Loki since she's unselfish. She gets back, where Hammond is despairing and they snog to end the story.
*Again, pretty much nothing can fit if it's the siren. Even if it's the Olympian… I realise this is "officially" Loki at present, but it is SO unlike the Asgardian Loki we know…
Venus 6/5: "Stolen Love!" ("A True To Life Romance")
----
Venus 7/1: Venus: "The Romance That Could Not Be!" (Chapter 1)
*Joya, daughter of Jupiter, is jealous of Venus and tattles to her dad ("Tell her I've gone for a drive with Apollo!") that Venus doesn't care about Olympus any more and is a traitor. This time, when she gets pulled back to Venus, Mercury brings Whitney with them (he remains convinced it's a dream throughout). Later, Loki takes advantage of the distraction of the trial to get his "Demons! Witches! Dwarfs! Imps! Powers of Blackness! Evil Spirits of Darkness!" together to take revenge on Jupiter and the Olympian gods for banishing him.
Venus 7/2: Venus: "The Dreadful Decision!" (Chapter 2)
*Includes an extended flashback to issue 1.,
*Joya takes Venus' place as Loki's bride to get him to leave Olympus alone.
*Obviously, if this is the siren, the whole thing's non-canon. Otherwise, again the portrayal of Loki...
Venus 7/3: "My Chance for Love" (prose)
Venus 7/4: "Leave Me Never!" ("A True To Life Romance")
----
Venus 8/1: Venus: "The Love Trap!" (Chapter One)
*Venus teleports away in front of Whitney when she notices him stalking her.
Venus 8/2: Venus: "Prisoner of Love!" (Chapter 2)
*Whitney spots Venus with the guy she's trying to teach love to. She teleports away with the guy again in front of him!
Venus 8/3: Venus: "Love Conquers All!" (Chapter 3)
*She teleports back to Olympus in front of everyone (Della: "Oh, let her go. That parlor trick of hers is beginning to bore me!"). Jupiter advises Venus to possess the girl she's trying to help to make the guy fall in love with her.
*Yep, can't be the siren again.
Venus 8/4: "Love Arrives On Time" (prose)
Venus 8/5: "Without Love" ("True To Life Romance")
----
Venus 9/1: Venus: "The Man She Dared Not Love!" (Chapter One: "A Pact With The Devil!")
*Another flashback to issue 1, this time from Della's POV, including a few days beforehand.
*On Olympus, Apollo's back to mooning over Venus (some "true sweetheart", eh?), and goes "into the very depths of the fiery place...into the world of the eternally condemned...into the grim, foreboding caverns...[…]...this is the home of Loki", where he does a deal with Zoroba, one of Loki's demons to take his place on Olympus so he can stalk Venus on Earth, possessing Marvin Klee, a guy with a crush on Della.
Venus 9/2: Venus: (Chapter II: "The Gods In Danger!")
*Venus recognises Apollo's snog, and threatens to kill the guy he's possessing if she doesn't go back to Olympus with him and keep his sneaking off secret. Elsewhere, Zoroba brings Loki to Olympus. Jupiter realises what's going on, and tries to get Venus to send Apollo back.
Venus 9/3: "A Star Named Barry" (prose part 1)
Venus 9/4: Venus: (Chapter III: "Back To Earth!")
*Apollo refuses to go back without Venus – notably, in a thought balloon, Zoroba refers to Loki as "Lord Lucifier!" - so Venus goes herself and seduces Zoroba into following her back to Earth, where he's powerless and Venus has him arrested as a spy, them gets Apollo to go back and take his punishment by threatening...to stick him with Della forever. (He frees Zoroba to take his own punishment for leaving Olympus on the way back)
*No siren can be.
Venus 9/5: "A Star Named Barry...continued" (prose part 2)
Venus 9/6: "The Wrong Choice" (True To Life Romance)
Venus 9/7: Venus: "Beauty For Everyone!" (Chapter One: "A Dream Is Born!")
*Venus promises everyone can be beautiful in the magazine, and promises makeovers and tips to prove it. She calls her handmaidens again (re: 1/2) - Cleopatra, Juliet, Du Barry, Helen of Troy, Isolde, Circe get named in the roll call, the back row don't – to help her reply to all the letters they get in response. Della, of course, plans to discredit her and ropes in Marvin to help.
Venus 9/8: Venus: (Chapter II: "The Gods Look Down!")
*Marvin brings a woman who has a job s the "before" in "before and after ads". Turns out she has a crush on Marvin, and Venus exploits that to break her resolve not to "be made beautiful" and get her to agree to a makeover from her handmaidens. Thereafter, her and Marvin go off happily together.
*Nope, can't work with the siren.
Venus 9/9: "I Was A Slave To A Promise! (True To Life Romance)
----
Venus 10/1: Venus: "Venus and the Son of Satan!" (Chapter 1: The Devil Strikes)
*The "Satan" of the title is the "Loki" we've been seeing to date, although called "Satan" in the text. Amusingly enough, the "Son of Satan" does look like Hellstrom, but I'm willing to call that a coincidence since he's borne from the same tropes.
*"Son of Satan" is the latest in a long line to attempt to force Venus to marry him. She says "no" this time, despite the promised destruction.
Venus 10/2: Venus: (Chapter 2: Terror on Earth!)
*Venus causes rain to extinguish the devil's fire, and gets Apollo to fix the resulting flood when SoS makes it keep raining until people are up to their necks. When he threatens Whitney, she promises to consider it if he'll give up his powers for a day and when he does, she gets Apollo to imprison him in a fiery disc running round the Earth forever.
*Siren=Nope.
Venus 10/3: "The Last Rocket!" ("A Fantasy Fiction Thriller!")
Venus 10/4: "A Chance For Happiness" (prose part 1)
Venus 10/5: Venus: "The Plot That Failed"
*One of Della's plans again. First time in a while there's a plot that could have worked if the star was the Siren, actually.
Venus 10/6: "A Chance For Happiness-continued" (prose part 2)
Venus 10/7: "The Trap!" ("A Venus Feature Thriller")
Venus 10/8: Venus: Chapter I: "Journey to the Moon!"
*A guy's built a rocket to go to the moon. For some reason, he goes to Beauty Magazine with the story, which leads somehow to Venus getting a seat on the rocket (at least she switches to goddess form first!).
Venus 10/9: Venus: Chapter II: "Trapped on the Moon!"
*In a matter of minutes" they're on the moon, where there's air for them and "Luna-Beasts" run wild breathing fire. After they're caught in a volcanic eruption she (with Jupiter's help) gets Mercury to bring them back to Earth, and brainwashes him to forget they made it to the moon and think she's a golddigger so he goes back to his girlfriend.
----
Venus 11/1: Venus: "The End of the World!"
*The Earth's falling toward the sun! Venus visits Olympus and gets a tip-off to go see "Michael Templar", the guy responsible for it, as part of a blackmail plot to make money so that a golddigger would go out with him. Then forgot how to fix it when he realised how stupid he was. Her & her handmaidens manage to fix him by getting him to fall in love with his assistant, then he undoes his mistake.
*Siren? Nope.
Venus 11/2: "Perilous Patrol" (prose)
Venus 11/3: "The Plot" (Sci-fi)
Venus 11/4: "Venus starring in Beyond the 3rd Dimension"
*A mad scientist's built a machine to go "beyond the third dimension" and is holding a press conference. Venus decides to try it out herself because the "world needs [him] too much." It plonks her in his brain, where there's a load of evil thoughts about to escape when he uses the machine. She talks him out of it briefly, but they br eak out anyway. She leads them to Olympus, where Apollo, Thor(!) and Jupiter struggle to fight them off. His only good thought gets Venus to lead them back to his brain as je dies, and Venus destroys the machine.
*Thor's an Olympian who fights with a "club" (a spiked mace). Okay.
*Not sirenable.
----
Venus 12/1: Venus: "Venus Trapped in the Land of Terror"
*Fat Sultan Khorok of Cassarobia wants a new bride for his harem. Guess who's elected?
Venus 12/2: Venus: (Trapped in the Land of Terror chapter 2)
*The gods can't help directly in Cassarobia, but Jupiter exploits Loki's crush on Venus to make him help. Loki then lets Thor in to make a storm, and Venus nicks Khorok's keys to get the slaves out. The sultan is overthrown, and Venus heads back to NYC.
Venus 12/3: "The Strange Rocket!" (sci-fi)
Venus 12/4: "The Isle of No Return" (prose)
Venus 12/5: "The Classroom Secret" (After-school special)
Venus 12/6: Venus: "The Lost World!"
*Whitney and Venus are on a luxury cruise "to study the effects of atomic experiments in certain parts of the Pacific Ocean" when a fish-man comes aboard, Whitney collapses into a coma and they run aground in the middle of the ocean surrounded by the "green creatures". Venus dives to get Neptune's help, and it turns out the fish-men aren't happy about this either – it be Ye Olde Atomice Tests that have caused it all. Neptune fixes everything.
----
Venus 13/1: Venus: "The King of the Living Dead!
*"All names and places in these true-to-life stories are fictitious." Just sosyeknow.
*Venus pops off to Olympus briefly (as frequently happens in true-to-life stories) when investigating Roberto's Beauty Salon for kidnapping beautiful women, despite it being "cleared of any possible implication". Of course, she's right, and gets captured herself, while Myra uses a magic mirror to impersonate Venus long enough for her to be seen outside.
*Venus goes through his hypnotic brainwashing, but Jupiter pulls her mind back to Olympus briefly to fill her in on what's going on, so she's still her. Apparently, the brainwashed girls are a travelling carnival and robbery troupe (a veritable circus of crime, you might say). Venus enlists the queen of the gypsy tribe, who Roberto has a crush on, who poses as a kidnapped girl and gets zapped. Venus uses it as a lesson, fixes it, and we're informed everything will be fine.
*Funnily enough, this could just about work with the siren, if you're prepared to write of the Olympus scenes as her delusions.
Venus 13/2: Venus: "The Last Day on Earth!"
*Venus uses the help of Mars and Thor – sent by Jupiter, the latter carrying a thunderbolt like Zeus in one hand and a very un-Mjolnir-like hammer in the other – on an ex-soldier madman to fill him with memories of his service on one hand and destroy his machinery with thrown thunderbolts on the other.
Venus 13/3: "The Evil Coin" (prose)
Venus 13/4: "Invasion from Mars!" (sci-fi)
Venus 13/5: Venus: "The Creeping Death"
*A giant oyster gets opened by fishermen and goo explodes from it and starts to expand rapidly, and with its tribble-like reproduction will cover the Earth in a day. Venus pops off to Olympus to get help from Jupiter, who sends Thor to create a thunderbolt that will kill it faster than it can reproduce. He chucks it and it fixes everything. As often happens in true-to-life stories! (Okay, I'll drop it now – suffice to say, all the remaining issues have the same note!)
----
Venus 14/1: Venus: "Fountain of Death"
*Venus flies to Mars with Baron Franz Heinrich, a German scientist who's obsessed with finding the Fountain of Youth (This time, she wears a spacesuit). While there, she pops off to see Jupiter in frustration, and comes back to discover he's got it, and a "Martian" named Azrael comes along, tells the Baron his own his life story (apparently, he fled the Nazis) and that the fountain is Azrael's own. The Baron chucks Azrael off a cliff, and Venus makes them rush back before anyone finds out what he's done. After he's been laughed at enough, she tells him to find someone who'll believe him, and he reunites with his estranged wife.
*Given what Venus says at the end, the Azrael of this story should be the same Angel of Death as Azrael/Lazaer from Wolverine.
Venus 14/2: Venus: "Hangman's Horror"
*A murderer manages to get rope that automatically hangs those who open it, and sends it to the jury. He confesses in the end because he's about to kill (what might be) his own son.
*Venus is saved by Jupiter pulling her out as a rope wraps itself around her neck.
Venus 14/3: "Backfire!" (prose)
Venus 14/4: "The Little Man Who Wasn't There!" (horror, metafiction)
Venus 14/5: Venus: "Venus meets the Lady Killer"
*Kind of similar to 3/1, except this time it's the real Adonis.
*Venus teleporting back to Olympus is important again.
----
Venus 15/1: Venus: "The Graveyard Waxworks"
*A race of "underneath men" are graverobbing to transplant themselves into human bodies. Venus lures a group of them into daylight, which kills them.
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
Venus 15/2: Venus: "The Day That Venus Vanished"
*Venus is imprisoned in a photograph.
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
Venus 15/3: "Return From Mars" (prose)
Venus 15/4: "Escape from Death" (sci-fi)
Venus 15/5: Venus: "The Living Dolls"
*More hypnotic mind-control shenanigans, although with the twist at the end it's into horror territory.
*Hey, an entire issue that could be the siren!
----
Venus 16/1: Venus: "Where Gargoyles Dwell"
*Venus finds a thirteenth floor in a building where the floorplan omitted floor 13.
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
Venus 16/2: Venus: "The Ashes of Death!"
*A "Mr Natas" is apparently killing people in his crematorium who were a little bit more alive than the average crematee.
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
Venus 16/3: "Shell Shocked" (prose)
Venus 16/4: "Thru the Lens" (sci-fi)
Venus 16/5: Venus: "The House of Terror!"
*Madman story.
*Again, nothing to stop this being the siren - Venus' powers and godly links have virtually vanished by this point.
----
Venus 17/1: Venus: "Tower of Death!"
*Venus visits England to investigate a "haunted" tower. Beauty Magazine seems to have entirely abandoned being a, well, beauty magazine by this point...
*Nothing to stop this being the siren – she claims to be able to see ghosts, but even if that was a deal-breaker, the "ghost" turns out to be alive.
Venus 17/2: Venus: "The Cartoonist's Calamity!"
*Horror cartoonist's monsters come to life, and Venus has to get him to draw a superhero to get rid of them.
*Could be siren.
Venus 17/3: "The Madmen of Mogan" (prose)
Venus 17/4: "The Storm!" (horror)
Venus 17/5: Venus: "The Stone Man!"
*Giant statues appear across the world! So humans decide to blow them up after Venus encounters one that's briefly came to life. Oddly enough, they turn hostile thereafter and wreck cities, in a story that has its morals entirely out of whack to my eyes....
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
----
Venus 18/1: Venus: "The Sealed Specters"
*Another "evil things want to steal your bodies" plot - Venus even references the last time, and uses it to convince them to abandon it!
*Venus: "We'll leave you to ponder over your futile attempt to usurp the power of God. Die in peace old man, and---God Bless You!!!" Do they even remember she's *meant* to be a goddess by this point?
Venus 18/2: Venus: "The Mad Mountain!"
*Venus is on a plane that crashes, yet lands safely without her ever having been aboard.
Venus 18/3: "Beware... The Cat-Woman's Revenge" (prose)
Venus 18/4: "The Little Man" (horror)
Venus 18/5: Venus: "Tidal Wave of Terror"
*Told in flashback by Venus – we come in right at the very end.
*Hey, whoever wrote this one remembers she's meant to be a goddess! This is her fighting Neptune's daughter Neptunia – who claims her father was killed by atomic blasts.
*Despite that, there's nothing particularly preventing it being the siren.
----
Venus 19/1: Venus: "The Kiss of Death!"
*Seance time!
*Nothing to stop this being the siren.
Venus 19/2: "Death to the Hairy Monsters" (prose part 1)
Venus 19/3: Venus: "Demon From The Deep!"
*Ghost story.
*Venus might as well be human.
Venus 19/4: "Death to the Hairy Monsters...cont'd..." (prose part 2)
Venus 19/5: "The Madman's Music" (horror)
Venus 19/6: Venus: "The Box of Doom!"
*Vampire story.
*And finish the series off with an entire issue of Venus as a scream queen with no apparent powers.
----
Marvel: The Lost Generation 5:
*Okay, THIS is the siren, no argument. She sings, she's "young at heart", she's around in the 60s (see next entry…), and she doesn't recognise Thor – albeit the Kirby version.
*Effigy recognises Venus having met her "in '52", but of course, the siren & Olympian look identical – it was even a plot point when they met!
----
Marvel Valentine Special 1/3: Venus: "Atom-Age Amore"
*Homage back to Venus as she was in the first half of her series, along with references and cameos from other contemporary series. Oddly, all the latter are still young (with one important exception...)
*Joya's back, but pretty much in name only as Venus' handmaiden. It's been "forty years" since Venus left Earth, and she apparently hasn't been back since. Venus takes the aging Whitney back to Olympus to live out his last days, and they fly off into the sky together for everyone to see.
____________________

So that's VENUS 1 (technically flashbacks), 2/5, 3/5, 4/1, 5-12, 13/2, 13/5, 14 and M/MYSTERY 91/3 that could not possibly fit with it being the siren, along with the Marvel Valentine Special story. That leaves only 2/1, 2/2, 3/1, 3/4, 4/3, 4/5, 13/1 (borderline) and 15-19 that could work with the retcon. And the Marvel: The Lost Generation issue, which I suspect is the only issue Jeff Parker actually referenced outside of WI? 9 before coming up with the "siren not goddess" twist!

What I'm thinking is that we take the same route we took with the Sub-Mariner/Champions/etc issues. It has to be the Olympian in these issues, so it is. She leaves Earth per M/VS before Jimmy Woo goes recruiting, so Woo finds the siren and *thinks* she's the Olympian. The siren then appears in M/LG 5 after Woo's team is disbanded, then we have the Olympian in M/VS, followed by all the "modern age" appearances we have listed for the Olympian. starting with SUB-M 57 (presumably, Hammond has died by that point).

This leaves aside the question of "Loki" and "Thor". "Loki" is a generic devil figure, and is referred to as both "Lucifer" (by one of his own servants) and "Satan" (for a whole story, including by himself) in the course of the series – the one time he appears on-panel with "Thor", there's no hint of any relationship between the two. Might he be Hellstrom's dad?

As for "Thor", he's played as an Olympian. And he throws thunderbolts exactly as Zeus classically does, rather than casting them from Mjolnir (he doesn't even carry any sort of hammer most of the time). Maybe he is a greek god who just shares some traits with "our" Thor.

Thoughts? Comments? Violent disagreements?

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Re: Venus series

Post by Somebody » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:21 pm

No comments at all?

I seem to have found an answer to the main question - while there seems to have been little-to-no mention of the Venus series in the Handbook profiles after the retcon (along with some deliberate obfuscation, like giving *both* Venuses - the siren and Aphrodite - Venus #1 as their first appearance in the Encylopedia Mythologica handbook), the answer is squirrelled in a sidebar - Aphrodite's the only one of the two listed as a (former) magazine editor in the "occupation" section!

As for "Loki" and "Thor", the Loki profile from A-Z Update (2007) doesn't mention the Venus series, and the (pre-retcon) Venus profile from the Golden Age 2004 Handbook only describes "an evil figure identified as the god Loki", which is a pretty wibbly way of putting it when you're talking about Hell-lords who routinely use aliases...
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Aphrodite & Venus profiles from Thor & Hercules: Encyclopedia Mythologica.
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Re: Venus series

Post by Somebody » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:56 pm

So, chronologies (note that I've tightened up the story numbers, so that individual chapters no longer count as their own stories, even if split by a text story).

*One asterisk is "edit", two is "remove", three is "add".
*VENUS 7 (9:2-9:5)-FB have no significant new information - they're redrawn panels from #1 with verbatim dialogue (at a push, you could assign them a split-second immediately before or after during the dialogue, I suppose)
*Anyone know who the hell "Liti" might be? All nine of Venus' other handmaidens (named in parts across three separate issues!) are famous real (Cleopatra, Du Barry), mythological (Helen of Troy, Salome, Psyche, Isolde, Circe) or fictional (Juliet, Bilitis) women from history. But I can't find anything for a "Liti"...
*"Loki" is well,... he looks and acts like Mephisto, gets called "Lord Lucifer", "Satan" and described as "the King of the Lower Regions...banished forever to the Underworld...the Prince of Hades", and has Pluto's backstory (banished by Jupiter/Zeus to the Underworld thousands of years before). About the only one I'm sure he ISN'T is the Asgardian Loki we know.
*Similarly, "Thor" resides on Olympus, fights with a generic club or *thrown* thunderbolts (like Zeus) and only occasionally carries a hammer.
*I'm assuming Marvel Valentine Special #1/3 occurs sometime before the Modern Age (i.e., pre SUB-M 57), since it's a plot point that Venus (Olympian) hasn't visited Earth since she left Whitney "forty years ago" in the early 1950s. That would place it sometime in the *absolute* 1990s - since Whitney's aged to an old man in the meantime - rather than on the sliding timeline. Presumably, Mr. Hammond croaked at some point before Venus was back on Earth for SUB-M 57.

Main cast:

VENUS/APHRODITE PANDMOS/VICTORIA NUTLEY "VICKI" STARR
***From Aphrodite
**(move M/SH3 9-FB, T@ 8)
***VENUS 3-FB-FB
***VENUS 1 (2:3-5:3)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:2)-FB
***VENUS 1 (5:4-5:6)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:3)-FB
***VENUS 1 (5:7-10:6)-FB
***{VENUS 1}
***VENUS 7 (9:6)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (1:3-11:1)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:4)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (11:2-12:4)-FB
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 2
***VENUS 2/2
***VENUS 2/5
***VENUS 3-FB
***VENUS 3
***VENUS 3/4
***VENUS 3/5
***LANA 4/3
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3
***VENUS 4
***VENUS 4/3
***VENUS 4/5
***VENUS 9 (3:5)-FB
***VENUS 5
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7 (10:2)-FB
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 8
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 10
***VENUS 10/4
***VENUS 10/6
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 11/4
***VENUS 12
***VENUS 12/5
***VENUS 13
***VENUS 13/2
***VENUS 13/5
***VENUS 14
***VENUS 14/2
***VENUS 14/5
***VENUS 15
***VENUS 15/2
***VENUS 15/5
***VENUS 16
***VENUS 16/2
***VENUS 16/5
***VENUS 17
***VENUS 17/2
***VENUS 17/5
***VENUS 18
***VENUS 18/2
***VENUS 18/5-FB
***VENUS 18/5
***VENUS 19
***VENUS 19/3
***VENUS 19/6
***M/VS 1/3
*SUB-M 57 (remove braces)
[...]
A 284
A 285-BTS
**(move later entries to Aphrodite)
***See Aphrodite

***APHRODITE/APHRODITE PANDMOS
***M/SH3 9-FB
***T@ 8-FB-BTS
***T@ 8
***See Venus
***From Venus
***M/SH3 9
***S-H2 36
***ATLAS2 10

*VENUS II [SIREN] (no other disambiguation, add [DISAMBIG] tag)
ATLAS 5-FB
**(remove) {VENUS 1}
**(remove) VENUS 2
**(remove) VENUS 3
**(remove) VENUS 4
**(remove) VENUS 5
**(remove) VENUS 6
**(remove) VENUS 7
**(remove) VENUS 8
**(remove) VENUS 9
**(remove) VENUS 10
**(remove) VENUS 11
**(remove) VENUS 12
**(remove) VENUS 13
**(remove) VENUS 14
**(remove) VENUS 15
**(remove) VENUS 16
**(remove) VENUS 17
**(remove) VENUS 18
**(remove) VENUS 19
ATLAS 1-FB
ATLAS2 2-FB
ATLAS2 3-FB
ATLAS2 4-FB
*(add braces) {M/:LG 5}
**(remove) M/VS 1/3
ATLAS 3-FB
[...]

HAMMOND, WHITNEY P.
***VENUS 9 (2:2-2:5)-FB
***{VENUS 1 (4:1-4:3)-FB}
***VENUS 9 (2:6)-FB
***VENUS 1 (4:4)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:1)-FB
***VENUS 1 (4:5-5:3)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:2)-FB
***VENUS 1 (5:4-5:6)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:3)-FB
***VENUS 1 (5:7-10:6)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (1:3-11:1)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:4)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (11:2-12:4)-FB
***VENUS 2
***VENUS 2/2
***VENUS 2/5
***VENUS 3-FB
***VENUS 3/5
***LANA 4/3
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3
***VENUS 4
***VENUS 4/3
***VENUS 4/5
***VENUS 9 (3:5)-FB
***VENUS 5
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7 (10:2)-FB
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 8
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 10
***VENUS 10/4
***VENUS 10/6
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 12
***VENUS 12/5
***VENUS 13
***VENUS 13/5
***VENUS 14
***VENUS 14/5
***VENUS 15
***VENUS 15/2
***VENUS 15/5
***VENUS 16
***VENUS 16/2
***VENUS 17/2
***VENUS 17/5
***VENUS 18
***VENUS 18/2
***VENUS 18/5-FB
***VENUS 18/5
***VENUS 19
***VENUS 19/3
***M/VS 1/3

MASON, DELILAH "DELLA" (full first name comes up only in VENUS 4, referred to as "Della" everwhere else)
***VENUS 9 (2:2-2:5)-FB
***{VENUS 1-FB}
***VENUS 7 (9:6)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (1:3-11:1)-FB
***VENUS 9 (3:4)-FB
***VENUS 1/2 (11:2-12:4)-FB
***VENUS 2
***VENUS 2/2
***VENUS 2/5
***VENUS 3-FB
***VENUS 3/5
***LANA 4/3
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3
***VENUS 4
***VENUS 4/3
***VENUS 4/5
***VENUS 9 (3:5)-FB
***VENUS 5
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 8
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 10
***VENUS 10/4
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 12
***VENUS 12/5
***VENUS 13
***VENUS 15/2


Gods, demons and related figures


ADONIS/"DON A. DONIS"
***VENUS 14/5

ADONIS/ERIC CAMERON -> ADONIS II/ERIC CAMERON
CA 243
CA 244
CA 245

ANGEL OF DEATH/AZRAEL/"LAZAER"
[...]
W3 58 (12:1)-FB
*{VENUS 14}
W3 58 (12:2 - 12:4)-FB
[...]

APOLLO/PHOEBUS APOLLO/"PAUL BELVEDERE"/"RENÉE ANDRÉ"
[...]
DS2 46-FB
***{VENUS 1/2-FB}
***VENUS 3/5
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3
***VENUS 4
*VENUS 5
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 9
*VENUS 10-BTS
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 11/4
***VENUS 12
T:BO 3
[...]

ARES/MARS
[...]
T@ 8
***{VENUS 4}
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 13/2
DS3 32/2-FB
[...]

CADMUS
***VENUS 3/4-FB

CERA
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 8

DAPHNE/"RONA BELLADONNA"
***VENUS 5
***VENUS 7-OP

DIONYSUS/DIONYSUS ACRATOPHOROUS/BACCHUS
[...]
T@ 8
***{VENUS 4}
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 9
T:BO 2
[...]

ECHO
***VENUS 3/4-FB

*ECHO/MAYA LOPEZ -> ECHO II/MAYA LOPEZ

HERA/HERA ARGEIA/JUNO/"AUGUSTINE JONES"
[...]
T@ 8
T 301-FB
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3
***VENUS 7-OP
{T 129}
[...]

HERMES/HERMES DIAKTOROS/MERCURY
WARM2 4-FB
[M/TALES 135/4]
BIZADV 32/4
T 301-FB
T@ 5
***{VENUS 3/4-FB}
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 10/6
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 12
***VENUS 13-BTS
T:BO 3
T:BO 4
T 129 (remove braces)

JOYA [DAUGHTER OF JUPITER]
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 8
***M/VS 1/3

LEDA
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3

LOKI/LUCIFER/SATAN/"MR. NATAS" (see note)
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 10
***VENUS 12
***VENUS 16/2

NARCISSUS
***VENUS 3-FB-FB

NEPTUNE/POSEIDON AEGAEUS
[...]
HERCULES2 128-FB
***VENUS 3/4-FB
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 12/5
T:BO 3
[...]

NEPTUNIA/"DIANA SEACREST"
***VENUS 18/5-FB

SAMPSON [BIBLICAL]
***VENUS 4

SON OF SATAN/SATAN/"MR. SATIN"
***VENUS 10

*SON OF SATAN/DAIMON HELLSTROM - > SON OF SATAN II/DAIMON HELLSTROM
See Hellstorm


THOR (see note)
***VENUS 7-OP
***VENUS 11/4
***VENUS 13-BTS
***VENUS 13/2
***VENUS 13/5

ZEUS/ZEUS PANHELLENIOS/JUPITER
[...]
T@ 8
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3-BTS
*VENUS 5
***VENUS 6
***VENUS 7
***VENUS 8
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 10/6
***VENUS 11
***VENUS 11/4
***VENUS 12
*VENUS 13
***VENUS 13/2
***VENUS 13/5
***VENUS 14
***VENUS 14/2
***VENUS 14/5
AAF 13/2
[...]


Venus' handmaidens (and consequential moves):

BILITIS
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

CAPULET, JULIET
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

CIRCE
ST 109-FB
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4

CLEOPATRA
TOS 44-FB
TOS 44
DS3 33
ST 124/2
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

DU BARRY, COMTESSE/JEANNE BÉCU
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 3/5
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

HELEN OF TROY
T@ 8-FB
T@ 8
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

ISOLDE
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4

LITI
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

PSYCHE
***M/SH3 9-FB
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

PSYCHE/DANIELLE MOONSTAR -> PSYCHE II/DANIELLE MOONSTAR (Remember to fix link from Mirage II!)
M/GN 4
[...]

SPELLBINDER/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
See Moonstar -> See Mirage II (wrong time period for a Moonstar link!)

PSYCHE II/PSYKOS/"RONNIE SYKES" -> PSYCHE III/PSYKOS/"RONNIE SYKES"
E:AN

PSYCHE III (EURTH) -> PSYCHE IV (EURTH)
A:CS 2-FB


***SALOME II [DAUGHTER OF HERODIAS]
***VENUS 1/2
***VENUS 9/4
***VENUS 11

*SALOME II->SALOME [EX-SORCERESS SUPREME]
M/CP 146/3
[...]

*SALOME->SALOME III [HELLFIRE CLUB]
UX 512

___________

Other human/Earth characters:


ANDREWS, COL.
***VENUS 18/5

AQUARIA [UNDERSEA TITAN]
***VENUS 17/5

BAHR, ALI
***VENUS 12-FB
***VENUS 12

BANNER, PAUL
***VENUS 10/4

BAXTER, MR.
***VENUS 15

BROWN, JIM
***VENUS 2/2

BUGGANOFF, DR.
***VENUS 11/4

CARSTAIRS, ELLEN
***VENUS 11/4

CORPO, SYLVIA
***VENUS 16

DARK, MAJ. JOHN
***VENUS 13/2-FB
***VENUS 13/2

DINGLE, DR.
***VENUS 4/3

DOLLY, "DORITH"
***VENUS 15/5

DOROMIC [UNDERNEATH MAN]
***VENUS 15

DOVER, RANDY
***VENUS 10/6

ETHINGWELL, CATHY
***VENUS 17

ETHINGWELL, LORD
***VENUS 17

FIELDS, MISS
***VENUS 9/4

FLANDERS, MRS.
***VENUS 8

FLANDERS, RONA
***VENUS 8

FOSTER, FRANK
***MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS 91/3

FREEMONT, LANA
***VENUS 5

GARA [GARGOYLE]
***VENUS 16

GEELS, MINNIE
***VENUS 9/4

HADDONS, THOMAS
***VENUS 14/2

HAMUD, RAOUL
***VENUS 14/2

HEINRICH, ANNA
***VENUS 14

HEINRICH, BARON FRANZ
***VENUS 14

HUSTON, GEORGE
***VENUS 8

KHOROK, SULTAN
***VENUS 12-FB
***VENUS 12

KLEE, MARVIN
***VENUS 9
***VENUS 9/4

LANE, CONNIE
***VENUS 3-FB

LANE, DANIEL "DANNY"
***VENUS 5

LENZ, JEROME
***VENUS 15/2

MARNA [UNDERNEATH MAN]
***VENUS 15

MARSHALL, RITA
***VENUS 5

MEONA
***VENUS 12

MINERVIA (not a typo, not to be confused with Athena)
***VENUS 12

MOSS, PETE
***VENUS 15

NAKIMA, PRINCESS [UNDERNEATH MAN]
***VENUS 15

NOBSON, JANE
***VENUS 16/2

O'CONNOR, MR.
***VENUS 18/5-FB

O'TOOLE, SGT.
***VENUS 14/2

ORIA
***VENUS 12

PALLETTE, PERRY
***VENUS 1-FB
***VENUS 1/2-FB

RADIANT, RODNEY
***VENUS 3-FB

RHOVA
***VENUS 12

ROGERS, JIMMY
***VENUS 17/2

ROSS, MISS.
***VENUS 16/2

SAHIA
***VENUS 12

SAUNDERS, DR.
***VENUS 4/5

SAUNDERS, MARGARET "MEG"
***VENUS 5

SCRIBE, STAN
***VENUS 2

SHABOR, LORD
***VENUS 12

SHALOMAR
***VENUS 12-FB
***VENUS 12

SHERMAN, ELLIOT
***VENUS 14/2-BTS

SMITH, REGGIE
***VENUS 15/5

SNIPPE, CLARENCE
***VENUS 1-FB
***VENUS 1/2-FB-BTS

STONE, JERRY
***VENUS 13/5

STORM, MARIA
***VENUS 11-FB
***VENUS 11

SUMMERS, ANN
***VENUS 10/6

TEMPLAR, MICHAEL
***VENUS 11-FB
***VENUS 11

WHITMORE, MISS.
***VENUS 14/5

ZORSKY, PROF.
***VENUS 15/5
_________________

Marvel Valentine Special 1/3 characters (Note: All come from various "Atlas Era"/early Marvel series. [Square Brackets] come from the GCD and/or Appendix, not personal knowledge, are not complete and are included just to point out where they come from.). Throwing in the characters from the Hedy De Vine backups in Venus while I'm here...

DE VINE, HEDY
[HEDY DE VINE COMICS 22-35]
***VENUS 1/4
***VENUS 2/3
***VENUS 3/2
[HEDY OF HOLLYWOOD 36-50]
***M/VS 1/3

HANOVER, MR.
[CHILI 1-26]
***M/VS 1/3

MARGIE
{[GEORGIE COMICS 9]}
[MARGIE COMICS 35-49]
***M/VS 1/3

SHIVOOR, PRINCESS OF COLONY WORLD X-IV
***M/VS 1/3

SMITH, CINDY
{[JEANIE COMICS 20/5]}
[CINDY COMICS 27-38]
[CINDY SMITH 39-40]
***M/VS 1/3

STORM, CHILI/"CHILI SEVEN"
[MILLIE THE MODEL 4]
[CHILI 1-26]
***M/VS 1/3
DAZZ 34
A3 10
[...]

DUNN, GABBY
***VENUS 1/4
***VENUS 2/3
***VENUS 3/2

GLAMOR, GAIL
***VENUS 3/2

ALLURE, ANN
***VENUS 3/2

Locked