FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Col_Fury » Tue May 26, 2015 12:25 am

Wolverine’s chronology for this period was laid out by the recent Wolverine Index. Let’s compare that to previous discussions about this period.

This placed W4 10-16 almost immediately after the Feat Itself crossover, opened a big gap in #16 and placed a bunch of stuff in it, including the Spider-Island crossover & Prelude to Schism, then, Schism right after it. The Index placed all of that stuff before W4 10-16, opened a gap in #16 and placed Prelude to Schism in it, then, Schism right after it.

The placement of X-Men v2 #7-11 & Spider-Island is the same for this and the Index.

This placed Uncanny X-Force #10-18 right after Schism, whereas the Index placed it around Wolverine & the X-Men #4, because UXFOR 19 crosses over with W&X 4; then, UXFOR 20-23 right after it, followed shortly by W2 304 & DPOOL4 50-54, and then UXFOR 24-35 (because UXFOR 10-35 wants to be one big story, but there’s only one spot for W2 304 & DPOOL4 50-54 to go thanks to Daken).

After that, the posting board put together chronologies for Deadpool, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Magneto, Red Hulk, She-Hulk, Storm, Sub-Mariner & War Machine.

Putting all of that together, we get:

FEAR ITSELF
DPOOL4 37-FB
A4 13-18 / NA2 14-16 (the current day interview parts)
TB 163.1
ASOLO 1/2
FI:FEARLESS 1-12
Defenders 1-12 (just the book-end 616 bits)
Journey into Mystery 631-636
Mighty Thor 8-17
Iron Man 2.0 8-12
Iron Man 510-527
ASM 665 & -FBs
X-Men v2 7-10
ASM 666-673 & Spider-Island tie-ins (inc BP6 524, Venom 6-8 & HERC 7-8)
X-Men v2 11
Wolverine: the Best there Is 1-12
X-Men Giant-Size 1
X-Men v2 12-15
GENH 9
X-Men v2 16-19
Moon Knight v8 1-12
ANNIS:Earthfall 1-4
X-Men: Legacy 250-258
W4 10-16 (1 - 18)
X-Men: Prelude to Schism 1-4
W4 16 (19 – 20)
X-Men: SCHISM 1-5 (inc GENH 10-12, X:L 259-260, UX 544 & X:Regenesis)
[W&X 2-FB]
W4 17-19
X-Factor 230-236
[W&X 3-FB]
[W&X 17 (3:5 - 5:4)-FB]
[W&X 17 (7:1 - 10:3)-FB]
Wolverine & the X-Men 1-3
W&X:A&O 1-5
W2 302-FB
W2 310-313
[PO 1-FB]
Avenging Spider-Man 1
Avengers Academy 22
Magneto: Not a Hero 1-4
X-23 v3 17-20
UX2 1 (1-10)
ASTONX3 44-47
GENH 13-17
New Mutants v3 33-36
UX2 1 (11-28)-4
X-Men v3 20-29
UX2 5-8
New Avengers v2 16.1
Avenging Spider-Man 5
Avengers: X-Sanction 1-4
New Avengers v2 17-23
Avengers v4 19-24
New Mutants v3 44-49
F.F. 3-11
Fantastic Four 600-604 / F.F. 12-16
W4 20
W2 300-303
Daken: Dark Wolverine 21-23
W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23
W&X 4 (2 - 18)
W2 304
DPOOL4 50-54
Uncanny X-Force 24-35
Vengeance 1-6
X-Men: Legacy 261-265
Uncanny X-Men v2 9-10
XCLUB 1-4
CarnageUSA 1-5
[M/HOL 2011/2]
[W&X 17 (5)-FB]
W&X 5-8
[W&X 12 (6 - 7)-FB]
[ASTONX3 52-FB]
ASTONX3 48-56 & @1
Incredible Hulk (the Jason Aaron volume) 12
[A:CC 9 (16:4 - 20:2)]
[W&X 17 (20)-FB]
W2 305-308
Fantastic Four 607-608
AVX 0
Avengers Assemble 1-6
W2 309-VO
X-Men v2 #30-37
AVENGERS vs. X-MEN


And here’s what needs to get filled in:

ASM #674-691 & @39
Avengers Academy #21, 23-28
Avengers: Solo #1-5
Avenging Spider-Man #2-4, 6-8
BP6 #525-529 (sometime before W4 16)
Cap and… #620-640
Cap v6 #1-14
Daredevil v3 #1-11
Fantastic Four #605-606
F.F. #17-20
Herc #9-10
(red) Hulk #42-52
Incredible Hulk (Jason Aaron volume) #1-11, 13-15
Journey into Mystery #637-638 (crosses over w/ NM3 42-43), 639-641
Legion of Monsters v2 #1-4 (off to the side, really)
New Mutants v3 #37-43
Punisher v? #5-16
Scarlet Spider v2 #1-5
Secret Avengers #16-25
Thunderbolts #163-174
Venom #9-22 (14.1 between X-23 #20-21)
Villains for Hire #0.1-4 (off to the side, really)
X-23 v3 #21
X-Treme X-Men v2 #1-???
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Jason Doty » Tue May 26, 2015 7:28 am

X-Treme X-Men v2 #1 comes after Astonishing X-Men v3 #44-47, which should take place not long after Schism. Cyclops is still recovering from his fight with Wolverine in Schism in the Astonishing arc.

So.

Schism -> (the team divides)-> Astonishing X-Men v3 #44-47 (before first Uncanny v2 arc) ->(last appearance by Dazzler, before AvX) ->X-Treme X-Men v2 #1

Dazzler cannot appear in AvX at all, as she is traveling the multiverse, until after the death of Xavier, in which she crosses over with the 616 again.

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Frans » Tue May 26, 2015 4:06 pm

Indeed there is still no answer to Dazzler appearing in AvX. Try to fiddle this in myself, but even that seems not possible. Was hoping that people on this board with tons of experience could come up with some kind of explanation (no offense). She does play a prominent role in The Diaspora in AvX.

Not sure why Wolverine The Best there is is in the list. I thought it was established this happened before Beast left the X-men. Or am I mixing things up now.

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Col_Fury » Tue May 26, 2015 5:11 pm

John Wraith dies in Wolverine v4 #1-3, and his corpse appears in Best There is #3. Since W4 1-9 is one big story, and Best There Is #1-12 is one big story, Best There Is 1-12 has to happen after W4 1-9.

Why is the Beast at the X-Men's place in Best There Is? I don't know, but there's no way around it because of John Wraith. Maybe he's there as a favor to Wolverine?

As for Dazzler, I didn't realize she appeared in the AvX crossover. She leaves the Marvel universe in X-Treme v2 #1 to travel the multiverse and doesn't return until later issues of X-Treme v2 expressly after AvX. I'll see what I can figure out, but I wonder if this is going to end up like Captain Britain in X 25?
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Jason Doty » Tue May 26, 2015 8:18 pm

X-23 v3 #21 (takes place before Avengers Academy #23)

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Mikhail » Tue May 26, 2015 9:13 pm

Col_Fury wrote:John Wraith dies in Wolverine v4 #1-3, and his corpse appears in Best There is #3. Since W4 1-9 is one big story, and Best There Is #1-12 is one big story, Best There Is 1-12 has to happen after W4 1-9.

Why is the Beast at the X-Men's place in Best There Is? I don't know, but there's no way around it because of John Wraith. Maybe he's there as a favor to Wolverine?

As for Dazzler, I didn't realize she appeared in the AvX crossover. She leaves the Marvel universe in X-Treme v2 #1 to travel the multiverse and doesn't return until later issues of X-Treme v2 expressly after AvX. I'll see what I can figure out, but I wonder if this is going to end up like Captain Britain in X 25?
Maybe someone just sold Windsor some mislabeled product, and that wasn't really Wraith's corpse. Wraith HAD apparently faked his death before v4 #1-3 -- he was believed dead ever since Sabretooth gutted him in v2 #166. If he used a body double to fool people into thinking he was dead, that body double may be what's in Windsor's tank.

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Col_Fury » Tue May 26, 2015 11:11 pm

While that's possible, W4 3 (January 2011) was published three months before W:BEST 3 (April 2011); that's a pretty clear chain of events. Good thinkin', though!
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed May 27, 2015 6:22 am

OK, Amazing Spider-Man (first installment)...

Issues #674-675 occur over one day, probably before Punisher #5.

Issue #676 is a one-day standalone that occurs "a few months" before FF 22 and must occur after Vengeance #3.

Vengeance #1-6 occur over two days off on their own during this period.

Amazing Spider-Man #692/3 is a FB story that occurs while Steve Rogers is wearing his super-soldier costume. I happened to place this story between ASM 676 and 677 and shortly after Secret Avengers #21, but there's flexibility here.

Issue #677 leads directly into Daredevil #8 (same day) for Daredevil. Dialog in ASM 677 suggests that Daredevil has joined the Avengers, so after New Avengers v2 #22.

Issue #678-679 occur over three days (Monday-Wednesday) off on their own.

Issue #679.1 occurs over two days, probably before Hulk #52 for Morbius.

Issues #680-681 occur on a single day, sometime after FF 604 and probably after Avenging Spider-Man #7. Johnny Storm doesn't appear to have moved in with Peter Parker yet even though he proposed doing so in FF 16 (a week after FF 604).

Issues #682-684 begin two days after ASM 681 and occur over two days.

Issue #685 occurs three days after ASM 684 and weaves together with Amazing Spider-Man: Ends of the Earth #1 and #1/2. Issues #686-687 follow right from there (same day) and lead directly into Avenging Spider-Man #8. This arc occurs a month before ASM 698. Since the Avengers are still at the mansion (not the tower), this arc should occur before Avengers Assemble #1.
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Emerald_616 » Wed May 27, 2015 8:39 am

EDIT: Issues/Questions about X-Men related placements

1.) Gen Hope is well before X-Men Legacy, but Zero was still alive when the Utopia students helped fight Exodus in Legacy.
2.) Jubilee was at Northstar's wedding in Astonishing. It seems odd to me that she would leave with The Forgiven, return for the wedding, and disappear until after AvX. However I can accept this if there are other continuity markers as to why X-Men 20-29 is so early and/or Liu's Astonishing is so late.
3.) Genesis appears in New Mutants #44-49 before reality becomes unstuck. Right now this is before he enrolls at the school. Moving this forward would also give more space in which to fit NM #37-43. I would go so far as to say it happens after Northstar's wedding, given that none of the other NM are at the wedding and Karma makes a comment about it being "months" since her San Fran-based friends made any contact with her and Cannonball.
4.) Uncanny X-Men #9-10 seems a bit early, because Hope's conversation with UNIT happens right before her training with Scott that causes the Phoenix flair. So either the entire story should be later, or at least the last few pages that lead in to AvX.
5.) Due to the presence of Psylocke, I would sugguest placing the non-FB parts of Uncanny X-Men #4 during or after the end of Uncanny X-Men #8 as the team flies back from helping at Tabula Rasa and investigates this quick Phalanx threat before heading home to Utopia.
6.) Can Thor's appearances help place the Exiled crossover?

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Col_Fury » Wed May 27, 2015 5:43 pm

Emerald_616 wrote:1.) Gen Hope is well before X-Men Legacy, but Zero was still alive when the Utopia students helped fight Exodus in Legacy.
Good catch!
Emerald_616 wrote:2.) Jubilee was at Northstar's wedding in Astonishing. It seems odd to me that she would leave with The Forgiven, return for the wedding, and disappear until after AvX. However I can accept this if there are other continuity markers as to why X-Men 20-29 is so early and/or Liu's Astonishing is so late.
This is because of Deadpool. Deadpool loses his healing factor in DPOOL4 50-54, which HAS to be placed between UXFOR 23-24. X2 26-27 (where Deadpool appears) has to happen before DPOOL4 50, and by extension before UXFOR 10 (UXFOR 10-35 is one big chain of events only interrupted by W&X 4, W2 304 & DPOOL4 50-54). Because X2 26-27 have to happen that early, that means X2 20-29 does as well.
Emerald_616 wrote:3.) Genesis appears in New Mutants #44-49 before reality becomes unstuck. Right now this is before he enrolls at the school. Moving this forward would also give more space in which to fit NM #37-43. I would go so far as to say it happens after Northstar's wedding, given that none of the other NM are at the wedding and Karma makes a comment about it being "months" since her San Fran-based friends made any contact with her and Cannonball.
:shock: You're right, Genesis appears in NM3 45. After the wedding makes sense for the reasons you list; this will require a change in the current Dr. strange chronology.
Emerald_616 wrote:4.) Uncanny X-Men #9-10 seems a bit early, because Hope's conversation with UNIT happens right before her training with Scott that causes the Phoenix flair. So either the entire story should be later, or at least the last few pages that lead in to AvX.
The last few pages of UX2 10 could happen later, or the conversation seen in UX2 10 could be the start of several conversations.
Emerald_616 wrote:5.) Due to the presence of Psylocke, I would sugguest placing the non-FB parts of Uncanny X-Men #4 during or after the end of Uncanny X-Men #8 as the team flies back from helping at Tabula Rasa and investigates this quick Phalanx threat before heading home to Utopia.
Somebody mentioned this a while back; the timing of the issue does seem odd.
Emerald_616 wrote:6.) Can Thor's appearances help place the Exiled crossover?
Hey, I just read those Thor/Journey into Mystery comics! :)

The short answer is no, not really. JiM 631-636 happens after Thor's "death" in Fear Itself and before Thor's return. Thor returns in Thor #8-12, which happens very shortly after Fear Itself. Thor #13-17 happens basically the day after that. Thor #18 starts the Everything Burns crossover with JiM. JiM 637-638 (the Exiled crossover) happens sometime after Thor #17, but that's a pretty big wide open space.

Just going by publication order, I'd say after W&X 8 and before W2 305. The Exiled crossover was published the same month as ASTONX3 50, so before the wedding?
Paul Bourcier wrote:OK, Amazing Spider-Man (first installment)...
Thanks! I hope to look into this tonight.
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Somebody » Wed May 27, 2015 6:26 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Emerald_616 wrote:5.) Due to the presence of Psylocke, I would sugguest placing the non-FB parts of Uncanny X-Men #4 during or after the end of Uncanny X-Men #8 as the team flies back from helping at Tabula Rasa and investigates this quick Phalanx threat before heading home to Utopia.
Somebody mentioned this a while back; the timing of the issue does seem odd.
Yeah, here was the thread: Uncanny X-Men v2 #4-FB
Somebody wrote:
Frans wrote:Also I'm not certain when the second flashback? happens when Sinister (in new costume) returns from an X-Men fight and disposes of all test subjects. The Phalanx later surfaces from the ground, due to assimilating worms, and then assimilates a girl and later a whole town. It seems like it happens over a long period of time.
I wondered about this when I first read it - it seems like the Extinction team appears here out-of-sequence:

1) New-Sinister appears directly after UX2 3 (the previous issue)
2) There is, as you say, a long gap after the New-Sinister scene while the Phalanx rebuilds itself
3) The Extinction Team show up with Psylocke in place of Frost. The scene where she's asked to fill in is at the start of the next arc and in response to the appearance of Tabula Rasa. And that arc ends with Frost's arm still being reattached.

I suspect the order goes:

UX2 1-3 [Sinisters arc]
UX2 4 (4) [Sinister disposes of lab]
UX2 5-8 [Tabula Rasa arc] ~ UX2 4 (5) [Phalanx rebuilds itself]
UX2 4 (6-20) [Extinction Team destroy Phalanx]

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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Col_Fury » Wed May 27, 2015 10:11 pm

I made some additions and rearranged some things. Given where Venom v2 #13-14 has to happen for X-23, and the placement of her book in the Wolverine Index, we have to move it slightly in our existing Red Hulk chronology (to between Avenging Spider-Man #3 & #5 instead of before #1, which also works better for publication order!).

Here's where we're at currently:

FEAR ITSELF
DPOOL4 37-FB
A4 13-18 / NA2 14-16 (the current day interview parts)
TB 163.1
ASOLO 1-5 (back-ups)
FI:FEARLESS 1-12
Defenders 1-12 (just the book-end 616 bits)
Journey into Mystery 631-636
Mighty Thor 8-17
Iron Man 2.0 8-12
Iron Man 510-527
(red) Hulk 42-46
ASM 665 & -FBs
X-Men v2 7-10
ASM 666-673 & Spider-Island tie-ins (inc BP6 524, Venom 6-8 & HERC 7-8)
X-Men v2 11
Wolverine: the Best there Is 1-12
X-Men Giant-Size 1
X-Men v2 12-15
GENH 9
X-Men v2 16-19
Moon Knight v8 1-12
ANNIS:Earthfall 1-4
ASM 674-675
BP6 525-529
X-Men: Legacy 250-258
W4 10-16 (1 - 18)
X-Men: Prelude to Schism 1-4
W4 16 (19 – 20)
X-Men: SCHISM 1-5 (inc GENH 10-12, X:L 259-260, UX 544 & X:Regenesis)
[W&X 2-FB]
W4 17-19
X-Factor 230-236
[W&X 3-FB]
[W&X 17 (3:5 - 5:4)-FB]
[W&X 17 (7:1 - 10:3)-FB]
Wolverine & the X-Men 1-3
W&X:A&O 1-5
W2 302-FB
W2 310-313
[PO 1-FB]
Avenging Spider-Man 1-3
Avengers Academy 21-22
Magneto: Not a Hero 1-4
(red) Hulk 47-48
X-23 v3 17-20
Venom 11-14
X-23 v3 21
Avengers Academy 23-28
UX2 1 (1-10)
ASTONX3 44-47
New Mutants v3 33-36
UX2 1 (11-28)-3 & 4-FB
X-Men v3 20-29
UX2 5-8 & 4
New Avengers v2 16.1
Avenging Spider-Man 4-5
(red) Hulk 49
Avengers: X-Sanction 1-4
New Avengers v2 17-23
Avengers v4 19-24
F.F. 3-11
Fantastic Four 600-604 / F.F. 12-16
W4 20
W2 300-303
Daken: Dark Wolverine 21-23
W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23
W&X 4 (2 - 18)
W2 304
DPOOL4 50-54
Uncanny X-Force 24-35
Vengeance 1-6
ASM 676
X-Men: Legacy 261-265
ASM 677
DD3 8-10
ASM 678-679
GENH 13-17
ASM 679.1
(red) Hulk 50-52
Uncanny X-Men v2 9-10
XCLUB 1-5
CarnageUSA 1-5
Avenging Spider-Man 6 / P9 10 / DD3 11
[M/HOL 2011/2]
[W&X 17 (5)-FB]
W&X 5-8
[W&X 12 (6 - 7)-FB]
Avenging Spider-Man 7
ASM 680-684 / Ends of the Earth / ASM 685-687 / Avenging Spider-Man 8
ASM 688-691
NM3 42-43 / JiM 637-638
[ASTONX3 52-FB]
ASTONX3 48-56 & @1
Incredible Hulk (the Jason Aaron volume) 12
[A:CC 9 (16:4 - 20:2)]
[W&X 17 (20)-FB]
ASM@ 39
W2 305-308
Journey into Mystery 639-641
Fantastic Four 607-608
New Mutants v3 44-49
AVX 0
Avengers Assemble 1-6
W2 309-VO
X-Men v2 #30-37
AVENGERS vs. X-MEN


And here’s what needs to get filled in:

Avengers: Solo 1-5 (main story)
Cap and… #620-640
Cap v6 #1-14
Daredevil v3 #1-7
Fantastic Four #605-606
F.F. #17-20
Herc #9-10
Incredible Hulk (Jason Aaron volume) #1-11, 13-15
Legion of Monsters v2 #1-4 (off to the side, before ASM 679.1)
New Mutants v3 #37-41
Punisher v? #5-9, 11-16
Scarlet Spider v2 #1-5
Secret Avengers #16-25
Thunderbolts #163-174
Venom #9-10, 15-22
Villains for Hire #0.1-4 (off to the side, before AVENGSM 4)
X-Treme X-Men v2 #1-???
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu May 28, 2015 6:14 am

Continuing Spidey...

Issues #688-691 of Amazing occur over a two-day period, likely starting the day after the aforementioned Avenging Spider-Man #8. It's weeks after ASM 675. Overall publication order places this arc before ASM@ 39. The arc must occur before Iron Man #1, since M.J.'s nightclub appears in that issue.

Publication order places ASM@ 39 before the one-day Avenging Spider-Man #9-10 (1-17). Avenging #10 (18-20) occurs one week after the first 17 pages of that issue. Overall publication order places that last segment before PPSM 156.1 and WOSM 129.1. Publication order also places Carol Danvers in Avenging #10 (18-20) before Captain Marvel #2.

Okay, let's back up to Avenging Spider-Man #1-3. These issue occur during one day. Because Spidey refers to his newly returned Spider-sense, this arc must occur after ASM 673. Because Hawkeye still wears his old costume, this arc must occur before Avengers #19, Secret Avengers #21.1, Captain America #6, and Avengers Academy #22 (probably before Academy #21, which occurs only days before Academy #22). Thor must appear here after Thor #12 and probably after Thor #12.1.

Avenging #4 occurs one day during the week before issue #5. Hawkeye's in his new costume, so this issue must occur after Academy #21 and probably after Academy #25. Publication order puts Sidewinder in Avenging #4 after Villains for Hire #0.1.

Avenging #5 occurs over two days. Cottonmouth and Anaconda must escape after their arrest here to appear in AVX. Given the pre-shakeup Avengers roster shown here, Avenging #5 probably occurs before Avengers #19, as you have it.

Avenging #6 is a one-day affair with no obvious placement clues relative to other titles.

Avenging #7 occurs on a single day and must occur before ASM 682. It's likely before ASM 680 since Avenging #8 follows up from ASM 687, as noted before.
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu May 28, 2015 6:20 am

I just covered Avengers Academy #21, so on to #23-28.

Avengers Academy #23-28 is one arc likely occurring over three days. Issue #22 is referred to as having occurred the other day. This arc probably occurs before Secret Avengers #21.1, Avenging Spidey #4, and Avengers #19, given Hawkeye's costume.
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Re: FEAR ITSELF to AVX

Post by Emerald_616 » Thu May 28, 2015 9:08 am

I forgot my theory about X-Treme X-Men v2 1-7.

Now, I am fully 100% aware that the beginning of the first issue clearly states "Before AvX."

HOWEVER, Dazzler doesn't seem to appear after the first Act of AvX. So I think it's possible the scene in issue #1 could happen shortly before the Phoenix 5 begin there Great Humanitarian Works across the world. We know from X-Men Legacy #268 with Frenzy that there's a period of several days and possibly weeks where the Phoenix Five and the X-Men go about solving a lot of world problems. Since X-Treme #1 shows them on Utopia, Scott could use his Phoenix powers to disguise himself in his regular costume in order to not frighten the X-Men from other realities. Then the scene can unfold as it does and Dazz goes with them. This way, Dazz misses out on the second and third acts of AvX only to return home and discover the aftermath in 7.1.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Also, for New Mutants #37, does the presence of the Hel-Hound puppy Warlock has hidden help with placement?

EDIT 2: I believe Secret Avengers #22-25 happens after Final Execution because of Captain Britain. However, I'm unsure as I haven't actually read those issues, only the brief synopses. But considering his preoccupation with Otherworld battles in Uncanny X-Force, he seemed to be solely there and not splitting time on an Avengers squad (and both were written by Remender, who at least respects his own continuity).

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