INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:55 am

And we're back!

Some of this was KIND OF hammered out back here:

http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... f=2&t=9336

Of course, some of the assumptions made there turned out to be wrong, like the “Xavier’s Will” thing. ANX 26-29 and UX3 19-23 lead directly into ANX 30 / UX3 24 & UX3 25, all of which has to happen after DPOOL5 29 (because of Mystique), which happens during Original Sin. Of course, Wolverine is shocked (SHOCKED!) here to learn that Cyclops is hanging out in the old Weapon X facility, something he already knew in W6 4-FB, which has to happen before Original Sin. Why was Wolverine so shocked to find out something he already knew? I dunno, maybe he was drunk.

There’s also a discussion here:

http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... f=2&t=9387

Battle of the Atom placement is still being discussed; let’s keep that over here so the conversation stays in one place.

Once again, I haven’t read most of these comics yet.

INFINITY
Inhumanity: Superior Spider-Man (putting out fires)
Inhumanity: Awakening 1-2 (digging people out of rubble)
Inhumanity 1-2 (clearing out rubble)
AAI 7-12 (Inhumanity) (Attilan unguarded)
MA2 4-5 (Inhumanity) (Attilan guarded by SHIELD)
ANX 19-21 (X-23 joins Cyclops’ group)
UX3 15-16 (Inhumanity) (Terrigenesis in France)
AASS 21-25 (Inhumanity) (Wolverine w/Avengers) (Terrigenesis reported in France)
INDH 17-20 (Inhumanity) (Avengers fail to stop Terrigenesis)
AMAZX2 1-6 (Nightcrawler returns)
A5 24 (Stark and Rogers discuss benching Logan and Spider-Man (Octavius))
SUPSM 22-26 (Octavius leaves the Avengers)
SUPSMTU 9-10 (follows from SUPSM 22-26) (DD still in New York, apparently w/secret ID “intact”)
DD3 31-36 (DD reveals his secret ID) (FF in red suits)
UX3 17-18 / GOTG3 11-13 / ANX 22-24 (Nightcrawler appears)
ANX 25 (Watcher appears)
DD4 0.1 (DD moves across the country)
DD4 1-? (Daredevil in San Francisco)
SH5 1-6 (Daredevil in San Francisco) (She-Hulk starts her own law firm)
W&X2 1-8 (DD San Francisco)
W6 2-3-FBs (Wolverine already benched by Avengers, gets armor from Octavius, who already quit)
NC4 1-4 (Wolverine learning to use new armor)
MSM3 6-7 (Wolverine in new armor, “not long” after Infinity)
FF5 1-4 (Wolverine in armor) (FF already in red suits)
W6 4-FB (Wolverine quits the X-Men) (Wolverine knows where Cyclops is based)
W6 1-12 (Wolverine gets back with the Avengers & makes up w/X-Men; no in armor w/Avengers before this)
AWORLD 1-14 (Wolverine w/Avengers in armor) (no Spider-Man)
SUPSM 27-31 / SUPSM@ 2 / SUPSMTU 11 / ASM3 1-2 (Wolverine in armor w/Avengers) (end of Octavius as Spider-Man; Parker returns)
AMAZX2 7 (Parker as Spider-Man)
AMAZX@ 1
AMAZX2 8-12 (Thor has Mjolnir)
ORIGINAL SIN


Stuff that still needs to get filled in:

A+X #13-18?
All-New Ghost Rider #1-???
All-New Invaders #1-5
All-New X-Factor #1-???
Avengers v5 #25-28
Avengers Undercover #1-10
Black Widow v7 #1-???
Captain America v7 #12-23 (is this all after Original Sin?)
Captain Marvel v8 #17
Captain Marvel v9 #1-???
Cyclops v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Daredevil v4 #2?-5
Deadpool v5 #13-28
Elektra v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Fantastic Four v5 #5
Fearless Defenders #11-12
Guardians of the Galaxy v3 #14-17
Hulk v? #1-???
Inhuman #1-???
Iron Fist: Living Weapon #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Iron Man v6 #18-28
Iron Patriot #1-5 (before or after Original Sin?)
Legendary Star-Lord #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Loki: Agent of Asgard #1-5
Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe #1-4
Magneto v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Marvel Knights: Hulk #1-4
Marvel Knights: X-Men #1-5
Mighty Avengers v2 #6-10
Moon Knight v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Ms. Marvel v3 #8-???
New Avengers v3 #12-16
New Warriors v5 #1-???
Nightcrawler v4 #5-???
Nova v5 #10-17
Punisher v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Revolutionary War
Rocket Raccoon v2 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Scarlet Spider v2 #24-25
Secret Avengers v2 #12-16
Secret Avengers v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
She-Hulk v? #7-???
Silver Surfer v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Spider-Man 2099 v2 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Storm v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Superior Foes of Spider-Man #1-???
Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #12
Thor: God of Thunder #13-24
Thunderbolts v3 #21-32
Wolverine & the X-Men #38-42
Wolverine & the X-Men v2 #9-???
X-Force v4 #1-???
X-Men v3 #7-???
X-Men: Legacy v2 #19-24, 300
-Daron Jensen

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Clive_Reston » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:54 am

NA3 17 and onward must be after Original Sin, and A5 25-28 might well be after it too.

Cap regains his erased memory of the Illuminati thanks to Original Sin, but doesn't act on that knowledge immediately, so A5 29-34 happen very quickly but some time after Original Sin. NA3 17-25 happen over the course of about a day, and when Tony Stark shows up in NA3 18, he's just been beaten up by Cap over in A5 30, so the two storylines seem to be pretty much simultaneous.

A5 25-28 probably happen after all of the Indestructible Hulk > OS: Hulk & Iron Man sequence: the evil alternate-universe Banner is handed over to S.H.I.E.L.D. (under the pretense that he is the 616 Banner), and there he stays, switched off, until "Time Runs Out," while the real Banner joins the Illuminati (so it must be some time before NA3 17). After A5 25-28, Odinson has access to the "unworthy" hammer of the evil Thorr (sic), for what that's worth. [Edited to remove "Hulk v3" from that: Banner doesn't seem to be "Doc Green" yet as of A5 25-34.]

NA3 13-16 can accommodate some nice long breaks if necessary.
Last edited by Clive_Reston on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:01 am

All-New Doop is a "Behind the scenes" of Battle Of The Atom.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:41 am

Marvel Knights: X-Men should take place while Kitty is at the school.
Marvel Knights: Spider-Man features Peter Parker as Spider-Man

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Clive_Reston » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:12 am

Savage Hulk #1-4 are set in that increasingly crowded moment shortly after UX 66; #5-6 are somewhere in the HULK2 #301-313 period. So yes, they're all in the past.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Deadpool v5 #14-19/21-25 happens "months" after Deadpool v5 #1-6/8-12. At the moment I'm under the impression these issues are after INFINITY (DPOOL5 21-25 were all published after INFINITY 6), but I'm not entirely convinced of that, and could be persuaded otherwise. In theory, I suppose all of Deadpool v5 #1-25 could happen between TB3 13-14 (before INFINITY); that would mean Preston isn't -BTS in TB3 14-18, which I would prefer, actually. That would mean since Wolverine doesn't have his healing factor in Deadpool v5 #14-19/21-25, he wouldn't have it in INFINITY, either, which is the impression I'm already under.
TB3 19 has the Thunderbolts driving away from New York, likely still technically during the INFINITY crossover.

TB3 20 has the Thunderbolts arriving at a new base, still likely during INFINITY. Ghost Rider joins the team.

TB@ 1 (volume?) has the Thunderbolts being tricked into attacking "Dr. Strange." Ghost Rider is not on the team yet and Venom is still on the team. It looks like this happens between pages of TB3 20 (after they find the new base and before Ghost Rider shows up).

TB3 21 continues from TB3 20's end and goes into TB3 22. Happens over a short amount of time.

TB3 22 happens in a day; Venom quits the team. When does he join the Guardians of the Galaxy, again?

TB3 24-26 happens over two days. Likely "soon" after TB3 23, but that's not stated.

Of course, there's no mention of a SHIELD agent stuck in Deadpool's head anywhere in these issues.
Paul Boiurcier wrote:Blade mentions the Dracula's Gauntlet adventure in MA2 9, so MA2 6-9 must occur after that mini series. Blade appears in MA2 6-9 before Deadpool #27.
Jason Doty wrote:Deadpool: Dracula's Guantlet v4 #1-7
Deadpool v4 #27 (Nightcrawlers Alive)
Deadpool v4 #28 (Honeymoon, Sunfire unchanged)
Thunderbolts v3 #27 (Deadpool Married, Uncanny Avengers appear Sunfire, Wolverine in armor)
It sounds like TB3 27 may be after Original Sin. DPOOL5 27 is where Deadpool gets married. DPOOL5 28 is the honeymoon. DPOOL5 29 has Deadpool and his wife already in their new home; there could be a break between issues #28-29, I suppose. Also, there could be a break within #29, after the vampire attack and before Deadpool shows up on the Helicarrier.

I'm reading TB3 27-32 tonight! :)
-Daron Jensen

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:34 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
TB3 22 happens in a day; Venom quits the team. When does he join the Guardians of the Galaxy, again?
In Free Comic Book Day 2014 (Guardians of the Galaxy) #1. Flash's first appearance in the Guardians' regular book is issue #14. Flash joins the team after his appearance in Iron Man v5 #20.INH. The Guardians must appear in that FCBD issue after Captain Marvel #6 because J'Son is still in power in that CM issue. I have Carol appearing in GOTG 14 after issue #13 of her own book, since Tic isn't with her. The FCBD issue must occur before Amazing Spider-Man v3 #2, since Flash is noted as being in space in that Spidey issue. ASM3 2 is part of a 2-day arc that goes from SuSM 27-28 to SuSM@ 2 to SuSM 29 to SuSMTU 11 to SuSM@ 2/2 to SuSM 30-31 & 31/2 to ASM3 1-2. But I digress...
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:47 pm

Hey Fury and Paul, I now completely agree with Wolverine losing his healing factor before Infinity. Look at the other post.

This is the order for Deadpool after Infinity up until Original Sin that I've come up with.

Thunderbolts v3 #19-22
Thunderbolts v3 #23
Thunderbolts v3 #24-26
last page of Deadpool no. 25
Deadpool: Dracula's Guantlet no.1-7 (Ghost Rider, Punisher member of Thunderbolts, Deadpool married by Priest to thwart Dracula)
Thunderbolts v3 #27-32 (Ghost Rider comments on marriage)
Deadpool v4 #27 (Official Wedding of Deadpool issue, Venom at Bachalor Party, no other Thunderbolts)
Deadpool v4 #28 (Honeymoon in Japan)
Deadpool V4 #29 (Original Sin)

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:48 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:
Daron wrote:TB3 22 happens in a day; Venom quits the team. When does he join the Guardians of the Galaxy, again?
In Free Comic Book Day 2014 (Guardians of the Galaxy) #1. Flash's first appearance in the Guardians' regular book is issue #14. Flash joins the team after his appearance in Iron Man v5 #20.INH.
Thanks!

TB3 22 was published the month after IM6 20.INH and the month before FCBD2014, which was published the month before GOTG3 14.
Jason Doty wrote:Deadpool: Dracula's Guantlet no.1-7 (Ghost Rider, Punisher member of Thunderbolts, Deadpool married by Priest to thwart Dracula)
Thunderbolts v3 #27-32 (Ghost Rider comments on marriage)
Deadpool v4 #27 (Official Wedding of Deadpool issue, Venom at Bachalor Party, no other Thunderbolts)
Deadpool v4 #28 (Honeymoon in Japan)
Deadpool V4 #29 (Original Sin)
Shiklah appears in TB3 28; she and Deadpool already have a place together. I haven't read the Gauntlet stuff yet. Do they move in together there? (Not Monster Metropolis; they have an apartment)

Venom appears at Deadpool's bachelor party in DPOOL4 27-FB, which is on Earth. Should this happen before GOTG3 14 (published same month as DPOOL5 27), where Venom's in space? Yeah, probably.

Spider-Man is noted as absent from Deadpool's wedding. That means DPOOL5 27 could happen either before or after Octavius stops being Spider-Man.

Cap's in his classic suit in DPOOL5 27. I guess he really is switching back and forth between suits.

TB3 27-31 happen over a day or three. And then TB3 32 says it happens "six months" later. Red Hulk and Punisher are in prison the whole time. Thor appears with his hammer in both TB3 27 & TB3 32, which suggests this is all before Original Sin. I think I'm going to ignore that "six months" (which doesn't make sense anyway; it took them 6 months to find the Leader? And they had an undercover SHIELD agent with Leader the whole time? That's stupid).
-Daron Jensen

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:06 am

Jason Doty wrote:
Thunderbolts v3 #27-32 (Ghost Rider comments on marriage)
Deadpool v4 #27 (Official Wedding of Deadpool issue, Venom at Bachalor Party, no other Thunderbolts)
Wait a sec. Doesn't TB3 27-32 have to occur after DP5 27? Wade is noted as married in TB3 27. You had it right before.

Recapping Venom's chronology here...
TB3 23 -- quits Thunderbolts
FCBD 2014 (GOTG) 1 -- goes into space and joins Guardians
GOTG3 14 -- with Guardians

Two other appearances I suppose happen between TB3 23 and FCBD...
DP3 27-FB -- shows up at Wade's bachelor party (does this make sense after TB3 23?)
IM6 20.INH -- Flash on Earth

Not sure what order those two comics should be placed relative to each other.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:55 am

Deadpool actually marries Shiklah in Deadpool: Dracula's Gauntlet to foil Dracula in a quick marriage. The Wedding in Deadpool #27 would be the second time, in front of his friend's and family.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:48 pm

I'd say for Venom/Flash:

TB3 - quits Thunderbolts
IM6 20.INH - on Earth
DPOOL5 27-FB - still on Earth
FCBD 2014 (GOTG) 1 - goes into space and joins Guardians
GOTG3 14 - already in space with Guardians

Yes, I suppose it's possible that Venom returned from space to attend the bachelor party, but bleh.

Speaking of the Gauntlet stuff, I've flipped through it, but haven't read it yet. Yes, Deadpool and Shiklah already have an apartment together by the end of that story.

My impression is that TB3 27-32 happens after DPOOL5 27 (and therefore after 28 as well). Yes, Deadpool was actually married in the Gauntlet mini, but the big public ceremony was in DPOOL5 27; that seems to be what Johnny Blaze is referring to (he comments that being married has changed Deadpool; this implies Deadpool has been married for at least a little bit, not that it just happened the other day). Of course, if events in other comics force things around, we can always reinterpret the comment and move TB3 27-32 a little earlier. Or, assume more time passed between the Gauntlet & DPOOL5 27 than appears. Generally:

Gauntlet (DP married, gets an apartment) -> DPOOL5 27-28 (DP publicly married, goes on honeymoon) -> TB3 27-32 (being married has changed DP, already has an apartment) -> DPOOL5 29/ORIGINAL SIN (already has an apartment)

But we'll see what happens as we figure out how other comics ft into this.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Emerald_616 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:39 pm

This is where things begin to get FUN!!! Infinity to Secret Wars is such a mess.....

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Clive_Reston » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:56 pm

And then TB3 32 says it happens "six months" later. Red Hulk and Punisher are in prison the whole time. Thor appears with his hammer in both TB3 27 & TB3 32, which suggests this is all before Original Sin. I think I'm going to ignore that "six months" (which doesn't make sense anyway; it took them 6 months to find the Leader? And they had an undercover SHIELD agent with Leader the whole time? That's stupid).
Might Odinson/Thor's hammer in TB3 32 and maybe even 27 actually be Thorr's "unworthy" hammer, per NA3 27? And then the six-month gap could move (at least partly) into the eight months between Original Sin and Time Runs Out...

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:00 pm

Uh oh.

Just read Amazing X-Men v2 #7, which features Parker as Spider-Man (he explains it was Octavius when he was acting like a jerk). And yet, we have AMAZX2 8-12 placed before Octavius stopped being Spider-Man (not anymore!).

At the very least I'm going to say AMAZX2 8-12 is after ORIGINAL SIN. But what about AMAZX2 7? It was published the same month as ASM3 2 & ORIGINAL SIN 1-2. I'm thinking after Parker's return and before ORIGINAL SIN.
Clive_Reston wrote:Might Odinson/Thor's hammer in TB3 32 and maybe even 27 actually be Thorr's "unworthy" hammer, per NA3 27? And then the six-month gap could move (at least partly) into the eight months between Original Sin and Time Runs Out...
If we HAD to, sure. I'd rather keep the appearances of Thor with his hammer after ORIGINAL SIN to a minimum if possible, though.

But even then, if Punisher's in prison for six months over in Thunderbolts, how does he appear in his own series? (I need to get caught up on reading Punisher)
-Daron Jensen

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