INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:12 am

Lining up Hulk getting shot and Captain Marvel going into space was tricky. Both of them are in Avengers World 1-14, Hulk’s at Deadpool’s bachelor party and Captain Marvel keeps appearing in various books. I ended up pushing both as far back as possible.

This is where we're at so far:

INFINITY
Inhumanity: Superior Spider-Man (putting out fires)
Inhumanity: Awakening 1-2 (digging people out of rubble)
Inhumanity 1-2 (clearing out rubble)
SUPSMTU 5-8 (city still smoking)
AAI 7-12 (Inhumanity) (Attilan unguarded)
MA2 4-5 (Inhumanity) (Attilan guarded by SHIELD)
ANX 19-21 (X-23 joins Cyclops’ group)
UX3 15-16 (Inhumanity) (Terrigenesis in France)
AASS 21-25 (Inhumanity) (Wolverine w/Avengers) (Terrigenesis reported in France)
INDH 17-20 (Inhumanity) (Avengers fail to stop Terrigenesis)
NA3 12
CM8 17
TB3 20-26
Fearless Defenders 11-12
IM6 18-19
AMAZX2 1-6 (Nightcrawler returns)
A5 24 (Stark and Rogers discuss benching Logan and Spider-Man (Octavius)) (Danvers on Earth)
SUPSM 20-26 (Octavius leaves the Avengers)
SUPSMTU 9-10 (follows from SUPSM 22-26) (DD still in New York, apparently w/secret ID “intact”)
All-New Invaders 1-5 (“not long” after X:L2 23)
Thor: GoT 13-18
DD3 31-36 (DD reveals his secret ID) (FF in red suits)
UX3 17-18 / GOTG3 11-13 / ANX 22-24 (Nightcrawler appears)
ANX 25 (Watcher appears)
IM6 19-20
BW7 1
DD4 0.1 (DD moves across the country)
DPPPL:DG 1-7 (MODOK w/AIM)
SECA2 12-16 (MODOK leaves AIM)
IM6 20.INH
Revolutionary War (Carol Danvers on Earth)
BW7 2
MA2 6-9
DD4 1 (Daredevil in San Francisco)
SH5 1 (She-Hulk starts her own law firm)
DD4 2-5
IM6 21-22
SH5 2-6 (DD in San Francisco) (She-Hulk finally gets clients)
W&X2 1-8 (DD San Francisco)
W6 2-3-FBs (Wolverine already benched by Avengers, gets armor from Octavius, who already quit)
NC4 1-4 (Wolverine learning to use new armor)
MSM3 6-7 (Wolverine in new armor) (“not long” after Infinity)
FF5 1-4 (Wolverine in armor) (FF already in red suits) (Carol Danvers on Earth)
W6 4-FB (Wolverine quits the X-Men) (Wolverine knows where Cyclops is based)
W6 1-12 (Wolverine gets back with the Avengers & makes up w/X-Men; no in armor w/Avengers before this)
Thor: GoT 19-20
DPOOL5 27-28 (Hulk at bachelor party)
FCBD2014: GotG
BW7 3-6
AWORLD 1-14 (Wolverine w/Avengers in armor) (no Spider-Man) (Carol Danvers on Earth) (Hulk w/SHIELD)
INDH 20 / Hulk v? 1 (Hulk shot)
TB3 27-31
SUPSM 27-31 / SUPSM@ 2 / SUPSMTU 11-12 / ASM3 1-2 (Wolverine in armor w/Avengers) (end of Octavius as Spider-Man; Parker returns)
Hulk v? 1-4 (Carol Danvers on Earth)
CM9 1-8 (Carol Danvers in space)
IM6 23-28
AMAZX2 7 (Parker as Spider-Man)
FF5 5
BW7 7
AMAZX@ 1
DPOOL@ v? 2 (Parker as Spider-Man)
Thor: GoT 21-24
AMAZX2 8-12 (Thor has Mjolnir)
CM9 8-13
GotG3 14-17 (Carol Danvers in space)
TB3 32 (Thor has Mjolnir)
ORIGINAL SIN


Stuff that still needs to get filled in:

A+X #13-18?
All-New Ghost Rider #1-???
All-New X-Factor #1-???
Avengers Undercover #1-10
Cyclops v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Elektra v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Inhuman #1-???
Iron Fist: Living Weapon #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Iron Patriot #1-5
Legendary Star-Lord #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Loki: Agent of Asgard #1-5
Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe #1-4
Magneto v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Marvel Knights: Hulk #1-4
Moon Knight v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Ms. Marvel v3 #8-???
New Avengers v3 #12-16
New Warriors v5 #1-9
Nightcrawler v4 #5-6
Nova v5 #10-17
Rocket Raccoon v2 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Scarlet Spider v2 #24-25
Secret Avengers v3 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Silver Surfer v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Spider-Man 2099 v2 #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Storm v? #1-??? (starts after Original Sin?)
Superior Foes of Spider-Man #1-17
Wolverine & the X-Men #38-42
X-Force v4 #1-???
X-Men v3 #7-17
X-Men: Legacy v2 #19-24, 300
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:23 pm

New Warriors v5 #1-8 happens over two days, "several weeks" after the end of INFINITY, and Thor appears with Mjolnir, Steve Rogers is Cap and Iron Man is in his black & gold armor. #9 likely happens a day or two later.

#10-12 must happen some time later; Parker is back as Spider-Man, Steve Rogers is old and Sam Wilson is Cap. Also, a mis-colored Havok appears.

Also, New Warriors v5 #1 has to happen after Scarlet Spider v2 #25, and NW5 5 references Nova v5 #10 as in the past.

-edit-

Scarlet Spider v2 #25 leads directly into New Warriors v5 #1. #24 happens a week before #25.
Mikhail wrote:Things to watch out for in Superior Foes:
Thanks!
Mikhail wrote:-Owl. When does he first appear in Daredevil Vol 4?
DD4 2-5, already in San Francisco
Mikhail wrote:-Chameleon. Probably entirely after the Superior Six arc of SSMTU #5-7, which was after Infinity.
Agreed.
Mikhail wrote:-Shocker. Appears in She-Hulk Vol 3, in the "Old Cap" era.
Probably before all of that, thanks to the Owl.
Mikhail wrote:-Iron Man. Still working with Carol Danvers and the Avengers during the finale, when he gives MACH-VII a pep talk and makes a cameo.
So definitely before Axis, then. AND, Carol's still on Earth!
Mikhail wrote:And, I fear, the big one:

-Boomerang's girlfriend was Black Cat all along (I think?). Can it all fit in before her arrest (Superior Spider-Man #21) or after her release, post-Superior?
It can't start post-Superior, because Daredevil (and Owl) move to San Francisco before Parker returns as Spider-Man. And is that Parker at the end? If this has to starts before DD4 2 (for Owl), and end after ASM3 2 (for Parker?), that's a pretty big span, during which Black Cat is in jail. Do we know it's her for sure?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Somebody » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:39 pm

Col_Fury wrote:All-New Invaders 1-5 (“not long” after X:L2 23)
No, seriously, you want to finish X:L2 before placing anything with reference to it...
Col_Fury wrote:
Mikhail wrote:And, I fear, the big one:

-Boomerang's girlfriend was Black Cat all along (I think?). Can it all fit in before her arrest (Superior Spider-Man #21) or after her release, post-Superior?
It can't start post-Superior, because Daredevil (and Owl) move to San Francisco before Parker returns as Spider-Man. And is that Parker at the end? If this has to starts before DD4 2 (for Owl), and end after ASM3 2 (for Parker?), that's a pretty big span, during which Black Cat is in jail. Do we know it's her for sure?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:09 pm

While on the topic of Daredevil. The entirety of Daredevil thus far might have to occur before Axis, or at least before Stark moves there, since the Shroud is using Alcatraz as well as Iron Man.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:48 pm

And in the next panel he says his name is Peter. Yeah, that's him.

I don't see why that last page couldn't happen a while after the main story; Boomerang's telling a story and that's the only place Peter appears.

Speaking of Superior Foes #17; yup, that's Black Cat all right. Huh.

OK. Superior Foes has to start after SUPSMTU 5-8 because of Chameleon. It has to "end" (except the last page of #17) before DD4 2 because of Owl. Also, it has to "end" before SUPSM 21 because of Black Cat. So we have:

INFINITY -> SUPSMTU 5-8 -> Superior Foes #1-17 -> SUPSM 20-21 -> DD4 2-5

Yay!
Somebody wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:All-New Invaders 1-5 (“not long” after X:L2 23)
No, seriously, you want to finish X:L2 before placing anything with reference to it...
Looks like I'll be reading X:L2 19-24 soon! :)
Jason Doty wrote:While on the topic of Daredevil. The entirety of Daredevil thus far might have to occur before Axis, or at least before Stark moves there, since the Shroud is using Alcatraz as well as Iron Man.
I'm not caught up on Daredevil yet, but if Iron Man starts using the place Shroud is using that would make sense.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Somebody » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Col_Fury wrote:And in the next panel he says his name is Peter. Yeah, that's him.

I don't see why that last page couldn't happen a while after the main story; Boomerang's telling a story and that's the only place Peter appears.

Speaking of Superior Foes #17; yup, that's Black Cat all right. Huh.
I think you may be missing the point of me picking that panel - specifically, the "helps when you make up half of it" line...

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:34 pm

Somebody wrote:the "helps when you make up half of it" line...
I'm not too concerned about that. My impression is that he events shown in the comic probably happened more or less as shown, and then later when Boomerang related the story to Peter he embellished a bit by "making up half of it."

* * *

NA3 13 happens in a day; Reed decides to rebuild his Bridge

NA3 14 happens in a day; Dr. Strange looks in to dark magic

NA3 15 happens in a day; Reed (not yet in red suit) has already rebuilt his Bridge, Strange has been out of contact for "days"

NA3 16 happens in a day; Black Panther and Namor chat

NA@3 1 happens over some time in a different realm; Dr. Strange looks in to dark magic

* * *

W&X 38-40 happens in one day (and the following morning), "shortly-ish" after BotA and INFINITY, but some time has definitely passed.

W&X 41 happens in one day. The X-Men have had a chance to look into Toad's actions during W&X 30-35 and decide to fire Toad (but not Husk).

W&X 42 happens in one day (and the following morning); graduation day at the Jean Grey School.

* * *

X-Men v3 #7-12 probably takes about a week to happen.

X-Men v3 #13-17 takes a few days to happen; some time has passed since #12. Not months and months, but some time.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:54 am

X:L2 19-24 happens pretty quickly, and starts "a month" after X:L2 18.

X:L 300 happens in a night, but it doesn't really matter because it only features two characters that will likely never be seen again. Lots of flashbacks, though. If we needed to place it, I'd say between W&X 42 & W&X2 1 (where it was published; story-wise, after the graduation seen in W&X 42, because the building's pretty much empty).
Somebody wrote:No, seriously, you want to finish X:L2
X:L2 24 is the issue in question. Legion uses his powers to APPARENTLY erase his existence. Obviously this didn't happen, because Legion still exists in the last three pages. Also, Blindfold remembers him (but Pixie seemingly doesn't) and they have a conversation. So he hasn't been erased.

Did he split another reality off from Earth-616, creating a divergent world where he wasn't born, and moved himself over to that reality? Maybe, but then how does the Blindfold in that divergent world remember him? Did he bring Blindfold-616 with him to this new world? Probably not; Blindfold has made appearances since on Earth-616.

Did Legion just make everyone forget about him, except Blindfold? This seems more likely.

In any case, X:L2 24 did not erase 30 years worth of Earth-616 events. Explain it however you like, but the story still happened; it's even referenced in All-New Invaders. What do we do with the last three pages? My inclination would be to assume the least "damaging" explanation and assume Legion just made people forget about him (or whatever). So that would mean that's Pixie-616 appearing here, not some divergent version.

Two cents! :)
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:21 am

Col_Fury wrote: X:L 300 happens in a night, but it doesn't really matter because it only features two characters that will likely never be seen again.
Forget-Me-Not appears again in Spurrier's X-Force.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:06 pm

Longshot #1-4 is a quick little deal, published right after INFINITY.

* * *

Nightcrawler #5-6 happens over a day or three. Nightcrawler gets adjusted to the Jean Grey School and starts teaching classes.

* * *

Avengers Undercover #1-5 happens over a few days, "three months" after Avengers Arena ends.

#6-7 starts a week or so later, happens in a day and Captain America, Hank Pym and Maria Hill appear.

#8-10 starts three months after that, Cap, Hill and Pym appear. So do Sabretooth (in charge of the Hand) w/Mystique, Lord Deathstrike, & the new Silver Samurai. Also Captain Britain, Meggan, Spider-Woman, Hyperion, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Tigra, Captain Marvel is on Earth

What's going on with Mystique? She's working with Sabretooth with the Hand while she's also posing as Dazzler in SHIELD, right? These were two ongoing things, right?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:36 pm

Loki: Agent of Asgard #1 happens a week after Thor: GoT 13-18. Black & gold Iron Man, Cap (Steve) and Hulk working for SHIELD/Avengers appear.

#2-3 happens off on it's own.

#4-5 happens before Thor: GoT 19-20, and at the same time as MA2 6-9?

I need to look through MA2 6-9 again.

-edit-

Nope; Loki #5 just features a villain seen in MA2 9. Never mind! :)
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:39 pm

X-Men: No More Humans Graphic Novel should happen in here.

Characters:

Raze (after Battle of the Atom)

Jean Grey School: Wolverine (old uniform), Nightcrawler (after his resurrection), Broo, Marvel Girl (Rachel), Kid Omega, Storm, Beast, Genesis, Kid Gladiator (after Infinity), Oya, Iceman, Rogue, Northstar, Shark Girl, Transonic, Glob Herman, Psylocke,

Uncanny-All-New X-Men crew: Cyclops, Emma Frost, Magik, Shadowcat, X-23 (after she joins All-New X-Men), Iceman (past), Beast (past), Marvel Girl (past), Angel (past), *note no Cyclops past, so after he leaves with Corsair), Morph (deeds), Goldballs, Tempus, Hijack
Triage

Magneto (after he has left Scott's crew for a while)
Scarlet Witch (Avenger)
Quicksilver (X-Factor uniform)
Mystique
Cannonball (Avenger)

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:05 pm

Iron Patriot #1-5 happens over three days, then there's a gap of about a week in #5. Tony Stark appears in the later part of #5.
Jason Doty wrote:Magneto (after he has left Scott's crew for a while)
I'm behind (or just don't remember); when/where did Magneto leave Cyclops' team?
Jason Doty wrote:no Cyclops past, so after he leaves with Corsair
Does this happen in Cyclops #1? Or does this happen at the end of the All-New/GotG/Uncanny "Trail of Jean Grey" crossover?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:18 pm

Magneto starts doing his own thing between UX3 #16-18 (still in white), He returns with Dazzler before original Sin (in black), He's in black in No more humans.

Cyclops leaves at the end of the Guardians/All-New X-Men Trial of Jean Grey cross-over.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:22 pm

Cool. When does Magneto start wearing black in his own book? With #1? And what issue does he return in, wearing black, with Dazzler?
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