INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:50 am

This is getting real tight.
Magneto starts going out on his own in UX3 #16
Hijack gets kicked out in UX3 #17
Cyclops (past) and Magneto in white in UX3 #18
Magneto rescues Dazzler in UX #21
Magneto returns with Dazzler, Hijack returns, Mystique outed as posing as Dazzler in UX #23

Magneto would have to be alternating between uniforms, doing some things between in UX3 #16 and #18 in his own series. Magneto #1 (he is wearing black)

I'm thinking to account for everyone. No More Humans would have to take place between UX3 #23-24, as well as Original Sin to account for Emma Frost and Mystique (not outed as Dazzler in Deadpool's Original Sin tie in), with the events of the Information Bomb, happening in Original Sin happening between UX3 #18 and 19. We need to fine tune this.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:13 am

So you're saying the No More Humans OGN is after Original Sin?

When does Magneto start wearing black in UX3? #21? Does he not appear in UX3 19-20?

You say Hijack appears in the No More Humans OGN with Cyclops' team, right? And since he's kicked off the team in UX3 17, and doesn't return until UX3 23, then the OGN can't happen during UX3 17-23? Or before UX3 17 because of Magneto's clothes?

Magneto's in black in the OGN, he's in black after UX3 23, Hijack is with the team in the OGN, Hijack is back with the team by UX3 23, what's wrong with the OGN happening after UX3 23? Does it have something to do with Mystique (is she posing as Dazzler in the OGN?)? Or, does it have to do with Wolverine? You say he's in his older suit in the OGN; by this point he's in his ablation armor.

I'm behind on the X-Books; I haven't read any of these yet and don't know the answers to any of these questions, by the way. :)
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:54 pm

Nova v5 #10/2 happens in a day, in an indeterminate time after the first story
Nova v5 #11 happens the next day

Nova v5 #12 happens some time later, in a day
Nova v5 #13-16 happens “shortly” after #12, maybe a week or two?, Nova’s in space with Beta Ray BIll, more than a few days, maybe a few weeks?
Nova v5 #17 happens the next day, leads right in to Original Sin
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:15 pm

Fury wrote
So you're saying the No More Humans OGN is after Original Sin?
It looks as if it would have to be.

I'm also saying that Original Sin has to take place between UX3 #18 and 19 (because Mystique is outed for posing as Dazzler, in UX3 #19-22, which is one continuous story, and Mystique posing as Dazzler appears in Deadpool on the day of the information bomb in Original Sin. (Dazzler is rescued by Magneto, Hijack also returns)

I think Magneto v3 #1-8 should also take place after UX #22 and before X-Men: No More Humans OGN (to account for him being away for an extended period, which also means no need for him to switch between uniforms)

It looks as if the X-Men: No More Humans OGN has to come between UX3 #22 and #23 (because Tempus appears, and leaves at the end of the next arc, Hijack needs to be a part of the team, also Marvel Girl (past) merges with an alternate universe Phoenix, which would make no sense pre Trial of Jean Grey, and Cyclops (past, also not present)

UX3 #23-31 (Tempus, leaves)

I'll look at Wolverine and the X-Men, and All-New X-Men next.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:50 pm

So Mystique appears as herself in the OGN, then? Not posing as Dazzler?

For what it's worth, the OGN was published the same month as ANX 24, Magneto #1, UX3 18-19 and W&X2 1-2, and two months before Original Sin starts. That doesn't always matter, especially with Bendis books, but there it is.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:07 pm

This is where we're currently at:

INFINITY
Inhumanity: Superior Spider-Man (putting out fires)
Inhumanity: Awakening 1-2 (digging people out of rubble)
Inhumanity 1-2 (clearing out rubble)
SUPSMTU 5-8 (city still smoking)
AAI 7-12 (Inhumanity) (Attilan unguarded)
MA2 4-5 (Inhumanity) (Attilan guarded by SHIELD)
ANX 19-21 (X-23 joins Cyclops’ group)
UX3 15-16 (Inhumanity) (Terrigenesis in France)
AASS 21-25 (Inhumanity) (Wolverine w/Avengers) (Terrigenesis reported in France)
INDH 17-20 (Inhumanity) (Avengers fail to stop Terrigenesis)
NA3 12
CM8 17
Longshot 1-4
W&X 38-41
X:L2 19-24
TB3 20-26
Fearless Defenders 11-12
IM6 18-19
Superior Foes #1-17 (except the last page)
AMAZX2 1-6 (Nightcrawler returns)
A5 24 (Stark and Rogers discuss benching Logan and Spider-Man (Octavius)) (Danvers on Earth)
SUPSM 20-26 (Octavius leaves the Avengers)
SUPSMTU 9-10 (follows from SUPSM 22-26) (DD still in New York, apparently w/secret ID “intact”)
NA3 13-16
All-New Invaders 1-5 (“not long” after X:L2 23)
Nova v5 10/2-11
X3 7-12
Thor: GoT 13-18
Loki: AOA 1
DD3 31-36 (DD reveals his secret ID) (FF in red suits)
UX3 17-18 / GOTG3 11-13 / ANX 22-24 (Nightcrawler appears)
ANX 25 (Watcher appears)
W&X 42
IM6 19-20
BW7 1
DD4 0.1 (DD moves across the country)
DPPPL:DG 1-7 (MODOK w/AIM)
SECA2 12-16 (MODOK leaves AIM)
IM6 20.INH
Revolutionary War (Carol Danvers on Earth)
BW7 2
X:L 300
MA2 6-9
SCARSPI2 24
DD4 1 (Daredevil in San Francisco)
SH5 1 (She-Hulk starts her own law firm)
Avengers Undercover 1-7
SCARSPI2 25
NW5 1-9
Loki: AoA 2-3
DD4 2-5
IM6 21-22
SH5 2-6 (DD in San Francisco) (She-Hulk finally gets clients)
W&X2 1-8 (DD San Francisco)
W6 2-3-FBs (Wolverine already benched by Avengers, gets armor from Octavius, who already quit)
NC4 1-4 (Wolverine learning to use new armor)
MSM3 6-7 (Wolverine in new armor) (“not long” after Infinity)
FF5 1-4 (Wolverine in armor) (FF already in red suits) (Carol Danvers on Earth)
NC4 5-6
X3 13-17
W6 4-FB (Wolverine quits the X-Men) (Wolverine knows where Cyclops is based)
W6 1-12 (Wolverine gets back with the Avengers & makes up w/X-Men; no in armor w/Avengers before this)
Loki: AoA 4-5
Thor: GoT 19-20
DPOOL5 27-28 (Hulk at bachelor party)
FCBD2014: GotG
BW7 3-6
AWORLD 1-14 (Wolverine w/Avengers in armor) (no Spider-Man) (Carol Danvers on Earth) (Hulk w/SHIELD)
INDH 20 / Hulk v? 1 (Hulk shot)
TB3 27-31
Avengers Undercover 8-10
SUPSM 27-31 / SUPSM@ 2 / SUPSMTU 11-12 / ASM3 1-2 (Wolverine in armor w/Avengers) (end of Octavius as Spider-Man; Parker returns)
Hulk v? 1-4 (Carol Danvers on Earth)
CM9 10-FB-FB
CM9 1-FB
Iron Patriot 1-5
CM9 1-8 (Carol Danvers in space)
Moon Knight v? 1-6
CM9 10-FB
IM6 23-28
AMAZX2 7 (Parker as Spider-Man)
FF5 5
BW7 7
AMAZX@ 1
DPOOL@ v? 2 (Parker as Spider-Man)
Thor: GoT 21-24
AMAZX2 8-12 (Thor has Mjolnir)
NA@3 1
GotG3 14-17 (J'Son is deposed)
TB3 32 (Thor has Mjolnir)
Nova v5 12-17
ORIGINAL SIN


Stuff that still needs to get filled in:

A+X #13-18?
All-New Marvel Now! Point One #1
All-New X-Factor #1-4
Inhuman #1-6
Magneto v3 #1-4
Ms. Marvel v3 #8-11
Secret Avengers v3 #1-4
Silver Surfer v? #1-3
X-Force v4 #1
X-Men: No More Humans OGN
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:05 am

I'm getting caught up on Captain Marvel v9 and noticed something.

Mr. Knife is mentioned in CM9 12. Mr. Knife is actually J'Son; J'Son didn't become Mr. Knife until after GOTG3 16. That means CM9 12 has to happen after GOTG3 16.

We have CM9 8-13 (well, the last four pages of CM9 8) right next to GOTG3 14-17 already, just with CM9 8-13 first. Of course, Carol's ship is being repaired during the gap in CM9 8, but that's the only gap there is in the series between CM9 6 (J'Son in charge) and CM9 12 (J'Son is Mr. Knife). So, GOTG3 14-17 happens during CM9 8 while Carol's ship is being repaired.

Given that Mr. Knife first appears in Legendary Star-Lord #1, and it's increasingly looking like that's after Original Sin, I'm going to say that CM9 8-13 is after Original Sin as well (that might be a long "few weeks" in CM9 8!). And Rocket Raccoon #1.

Hopefully, Carol's ship doesn't appear in GOTG3 14-17...

* * *

Moon Knight #1-6 spans about a month. Each issue is individual, but #6 picks up from #1, covers #2-5 and then wraps up about a month after #1. Moon Knight doesn't appear in other books during this time (pre-Original Sin) so it doesn't matter much.

Edited into the above!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:57 pm

Col_Fury, isn't there a suitable gap between CM9 8 and 9?

Also, I'm wondering about Tic's status during Carol's appearances in GOTG3 14-17. I figured Carol would start appearing with the Guardians after she parted ways with Tic in CM9 13. Of course, that would mean that J'Son was appearing as Mr. Knife in CM9 12-13 before GOTG3 14. Could J'Son have adopted the Mr. Knife secret ID (to do his evil deeds in a clandestine fashion following the events of CM9 6) before his fall from power on Spartax in GOTG3 14-17? (I know publication dates don't support this -- CM9 13 was published in May 2015; GOTG3 14 was published in June 2014! But Tic's status got me wondering...)
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:52 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:isn't there a suitable gap between CM9 8 and 9?
Oh yeah! That works, thanks!

As for Mr. Knife, my understanding is that J'Son's "Mr. Knife" identity was a necessity because he was deposed. Also, Carol's left Tic alone in the ship in CM9, I don't see why Tic couldn't be flying around in it and doing other things while Carol's with the Guardians.

* * *

Inhuman #1-3 happen over a few days, shortly after INFINITY. Cap appears (in his classic suit; still changing costumes!).

Inhuman #4-6 happens over a few days, some time after #1-3. Thor appears with Mjolnir, so before ORIGINAL SIN, and talks about Asgard on Earth in the past tense, so after Thor: GoT #24.

Inhuman #7-8 happens over two days. Black Bolt is found, released from Maximus' control, and Maximus gets his hands blasted off. Maximus is still hanging around with Black Bolt in A5 28, which is after ORIGINAL SIN, and since INH 7-8 has to happen after that, they're after ORIGINAL SIN as well.

Inhuman #9 is an Axis crossover.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:36 am

I've only just started looking at X-Force v4.

In #2, we see in different locations Wolverine & Storm (who don't know Psyocke is on Cable's team), Mystique (at the Hand HQ?), Polaris (in her Serval Industries suit), Magneto (in his black suit), Havok (at Avengers HQ), and Cyclops (apparently in a different location than Magneto). This made me look into Magneto's costume.

Flipping through UX3, Magneto's in his white costume in #18 and he's wearing a black trenchcoat in #21-22. In UX3 23, he's wearing his black suit. Doesn't that mean he could be wearing his black suit at any time after UX3 18? If so, why can't some issues of Magneto's solo series happen before ORIGINAL SIN? The first four issues were published before that started. I haven't read any issues of this series yet.

Back to X-Force, when do Storm and Wolverine find out Psylocke is on Cable's team?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:58 am

OK...I agree that Tic is a non-issue.

Another observation from a calendar perspective --

ASM@3 1 takes place on "December 10" and 11, and a Christmas tree is seen at Rockefeller Plaza.

CM9 10-11 occur on "Christmas Eve" and CM9 12 is on Christmas.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:57 am

ASM@3 1 is definitely after ORIGINAL SIN, so cool! Things are shaping up. :)

So, X-Force v4.

#1-4 were published before ORIGINAL SIN. #5-9 were published during ORIGINAL SIN. #10-13 were published during AXIS. #14-15 were published after AXIS.

Flashbacks through the volume starts the whole deal. These flashbacks happen "a month" before #1 (Cable, Hope, Marrow and Fantomex "join" the "team" here). #1 happens in a day; Psylocke is recruited here and it's her first mission with this version of X-Force.

#2 happens over a day or two, no mention of how long it's been since last issue. As noted earlier, Wolverine & Storm (who don't know Psyocke is on Cable's team), Mystique (at the Hand HQ?), Polaris (in her Serval Industries suit, same month as ANXF 4), Magneto (in his black suit), Havok (at Avengers HQ), and Cyclops appear.

#3 happens "20 days" after #1. Psylocke is still active with Storm's team (along with Monet, Rachel Grey & Jubilee), so that's nice. Probably a few days after #2.

#4 happens in a night, probably the day after #3.

#5-6 happens in a day, shortly after #4. Probably a few days after.

#7 happens in a day, shortly after #6. Probably the next day. Domino gets captured by Mojo here (disguised as Arnim Zola), and can't make any appearances elsewhere until she's rescued later in this series.

#8-9 happen over three days, some time after #7.

#10 picks up shortly after #9, and spans a week or two.

#11-12 happens the day after #10, and happens in a day. We're now "five months' after the flashbacks that start the volume. Domino is rescued and Fantomex goes crazy and becomes a villain. In #12 Magneto appears again (same month as Magneto #12, an AXIS tie-in) as does Storm (same month as Storm #5).

#13 starts some time after #12, at least three days later but probably closer to a week or two, and happens in a day.

#14-15 happens some time after #13, possibly weeks later, and happens in a day or two. Fantomex is basically "reset" (but kicked off the team). Then, there's a break of two weeks during #15.

Psylocke can appear in other books during story breaks in this series. That's great.

Fantomex is trickier. He's basically crazy (or more crazy than normal) as of the "month ago" flashbacks that start the whole series. However, he appears as a teacher at the JGS over in Wolverine & the X-Men v2. Sporadically in issues #1-8, and then in #10 after Wolverine's death. In theory, that means this volume needs to happen between W&X2 8 & W&X2 10. Not so tricky, I guess. W&X2 1-8 are already placed well before ORIGINAL SIN.

Domino appears in the latest Punisher volume, but that's after ORIGINAL SIN. Something to keep an eye out for, but that would suggest XFOR4 7 is after ORIGINAL SIN as well as after Punisher #6. She also appears in the latest Deathlok series, but again, that's after ORIGINAL SIN, and that wrapped up after X-Force did.

Cable appears at Deadpool's wedding in DPOOL5 27 (same month as XFOR4 3), acting just fine. This is most likely before the "month ago" flashbacks. DPOOL5 27 is already placed after W&X2 1-8, so that's nice.

So our start point is after DPOOL5 27, and our end point is pre-Death of Wolverine (which is before AXIS). Putting Cable, Domino and Fantomex together, we have:

W&X2 1-8 -> DPOOL5 27 -> ORIGINAL SIN -> Punisher #1-6 -> XFOR4 7 -> XFOR4 15 -> W&X2 10 -> AXIS

Looking at X-Force's timeline:

flashbacks (a day)
-a month later-
#1 (a day)
-three weeks later
#2-7 (about a week)
-some time later- (assuming two months or so)
#8-10 (a week or two)
#11-12 (a day, five months after flashbacks)
-two weeks later?-
#13 (a day)
-weeks later-
#14-15 (two weeks)

If #2-7 happen in about a week, and #7 has to be after Punisher #1-6 for Domino, which is after ORIGINAL SIN for Punisher, it looks like only XFOR4 1 (and the various flashbacks) are before ORIGINAL SIN (in theory, ORIGINAL SIN would happen during that "20 days"), and XFOR4 2-15 are between ORIGINAL SIN and AXIS. Also, XFOR4 1 would be closer-ish to ORIGINAL SIN, with the flashbacks being a month before that. #2 was published the month before ORIGINAL SIN started, and the same month as All-New X-Factor #2, so I guess we'll see how that line up.

Neat!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:34 pm

The first several issue of Silver Surfer are the Surfer and his new pal being space tourists. The GotG appear in #4; this was published the same month as GotG3 17. I think it's safe to say the series can start after ORIGINAL SIN.

* * *

Magneto #1-4 has Magneto targeting connected people/areas, and happens over an unspecified amount of time; Magneto is driving from place to place tracking down leads, so a week or two, maybe?

Magneto #5-8 is another series of connected targets for Magneto. It's mentioned that he's been lying low since #4, so a decent amount of time has probably passed since then. He was likely doing odd jobs in the meantime.

Given publication dates, it looks like Magneto #1-4 is before ORIGINAL SIN and #5-8 are after.

Scalphunter appears in Magneto #6, and in Elektra #1-2. In theory, Scalphunter should appear in Elektra #1-2 before Magneto #6.

-edit-

Should have realized earlier; Elektra starts after Thunderbolts v3 ends (which ends right before ORIGINAL SIN, basically), and since this volume is a string of events, it starts after ORIGINAL SIN.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:13 am

Fury wrote
Given publication dates, it looks like Magneto #1-4 is before ORIGINAL SIN and #5-8 are after.
What does the time a comic is released have to do with the content of the actual comics? Why would we force an unnatural break in another writers storyline to accommodate a story that could easily be placed after. I'm only for forcing a break if it has to be, based on in comic evidence. I don't see the benefit of this. It becomes a limiting factor rather than a helpful one.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:43 pm

What do you mean, unnatural break? Magneto #5 makes it clear that it's been a while since Magneto #4. He even comments on falling into a routine in the meantime (picking up groceries, shaving his head because he doesn't like the stubble, etc.).

Besides, Magneto #1-2 were published before ORIGINAL SIN started and Magneto #3-10 were published at the same time as ORIGINAL SIN. That's a good starting point, but it's not the be-all and end-all, obviously; just look at my suggestion for X-Force v4.
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