INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:40 pm

You just won this battle Fury. It clearly says at the end of UX3 #16 that Magneto is next seen in Magneto #1.

He was providing Intel to SHIELD up until this issue thinking Mystique was Dazzler, after reaching Madripoor he discovers Mystique is Dazzler and disgusted with what she has set up there takes off. She must have reported back that he was no longer an asset and he is being chased by them in Magneto #1

It really sucks that he showed up in UX3 #18 at all, no dialog, but there he is.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:21 pm

This is even more awesome though. IN UX3 #18 The art is hard to follow, but the portions with Magneto are a flashback to one week prior.

So , in UX3 #18 the X-Men return to the Weapon X facility to find Kitty and the All-New Team gone abducted for the Trial of Jean Grey.

Two weeks ago, Kitty is brought to the Weapon X facility to confront Cyclops by Magik. (So after Battle of the Atom)

One week later, Kitty and the All-New X-Men join the Xavier School, Magneto present. (Last pages of Battle of the Atom)

The next day, Cyclops talks to the young Jean Grey. Magneto present.

Don't know what Paul's calender looks like, but the time frame would suggest that Infinity happens before Battle of the Atom or between pages of it.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:14 am

Yes, UX3 18-FB happens before and after UX3 14.

So what's stopping the No More Humans OGN from happening between UX3 16-17, again? Magneto's in black, Wolverine's still in his pre-armor suit and whatsisname is still on the team. AND it's in publication order.

I don't have the No More Humans OGN, by the way, and won't for about a month. My impression from online reviews is that the universe gets reset at the end or something, so no one remembers the events?

As for the two weeks stuff, I've said it several times before, but the first thing I toss out the window is a Bendis Temporal ReferenceTM. They rarely, if ever, hold up. :lol:
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:33 am

Fury wrote
So what's stopping the No More Humans OGN from happening between UX3 16-17, again? Magneto's in black, Wolverine's still in his pre-armor suit and whatsisname is still on the team. AND it's in publication order.
Nothing I can think of this sec. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.

I wouldn't write off Bendis' temporal reference just yet. You would be ignoring 2 clues about placement about Infinity and Battle of the Atom. Kitty is at the Jean Grey School in Infinity. She is not, after Battle of the Atom.

Any reason we come up with for her being there in Infinity after she has left is not a clue. It's something we made up, and it should be placed accordingly to in comic evidence.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:52 pm

All-New X-Factor #1-6 were published before ORIGINAL SIN (ANXF 6 was the same month as #0), and #7-14 were published at the same time as ORIGINAL SIN. #15 is an AXIS tie-in.

Polaris appears in X-Force v4 #2, which was published the same month as All-New X-Factor #4-5. It looks like she's the only one that appears somewhere else during this time. Currently, X-Force v4 #2 is after ORIGINAL SIN.

ANXF 1-2 is a chunk, 3-4 is a chunk that happens soon after. 5-13 is a chunk that happens with no breaks, and 14 happens at some point after (shortly before AXIS). An undefined amount of time happens between ANXF 4 and 5, so it looks like that's where our break is (1-4 before ORIGINAL SIN, 5-14 after).

* * *

There's no character overlap between All-New Ghost Rider and the rest of the universe; Mr. Hyde ad Johnny Blaze appear, but they don't appear anywhere else during this time. Since Blaze does appear here (not until #6), at least #6 has to happen after Thunderbolts v3 ends (which is right before ORIGINAL SIN). I'm just going to say the whole thing starts after ORIGINAL SIN. The same for Iron Fist, Deadly Hands & Spider-Man 2099.

* * *

Secret Avengers v3 involves Phil Coulson leaving active SHIELD duty because of PTSD and Nick Fury Jr. going into a coma. Both of these guys appear during ORIGINAL SIN, so I think it's safe to say this all starts after ORIGINAL SIN.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:43 am

Col_Fury wrote: Secret Avengers v3 involves Phil Coulson leaving active SHIELD duty because of PTSD and Nick Fury Jr. going into a coma. Both of these guys appear during ORIGINAL SIN, so I think it's safe to say this all starts after ORIGINAL SIN.
There is an Infinite Comic that is a Secret Avenger's tie-in to Original Sin, and it's referenced in one of the first 5 episode of Secret Avengers v3 (I can't remember, but I believe it's said to happens between episodes 3 and 4).

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:18 am

Ah! Cool, I'll take another look.

Marvel Knights: Hulk takes place at some point when Maria Hill is SHIELD Director, Dr. Doom is in charge and MODOK is with AIM. When Bruce pictures what the Hulk can do, we see Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel (after AvX) and Iron Man in his black & gold armor (after Infinity, and after Bruce starts working with SHIELD). A flashback in #4 shows Bruce being abducted by AIM, explaining why he's wandering around in #1. Also, the mini lasts "weeks." I get the feeling this should be placed around the time of Marvel Knights: X-Men.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:48 am

There it is! Secret Avengers v3 #4 tells us to read the infinite comic next, and then #5 refers to it. So SECA3 1-4 happens before ORIGINAL SIN.

Thanks, Midnighter!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:21 pm

Cyclops starts at a point where he's already been in space for a while, and is writing a letter to Jean to say what he's been up to. I think we can say this starts after ORIGINAL SIN.

Storm started publication after Cyclops did, and is fairly free standing (no references to other stories, at least in #1). I think we can say this starts after ORIGINAL SIN as well.

However, I'm reading the Marvel Now! Point One one-shot, and Silver Surfer is already in space in it. It also takes place before Loki: AoA #1, All-New Invaders #1 and Black Widow #1. So it looks like at least Silver Surfer #1 takes place before ORIGINAL SIN. I still think #4 happens after. #1-3 is all one arc, so that's before the Point One issue and before ORIGINAL SIN.

Making progress!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:39 am

All-New Marvel Now! Point One happens before Loki: AoA #1, All-New Invaders #1, Black Widow #1, Avengers World #1 and somewhere during the Silver Surfer and Ms. Marvel series'. Also, while Bruce Banner is still working with SHIELD.

All-New Marvel Now! Point One was published the same month as Loki: AoA #1, All-New Invaders #1, Avengers World #1-2, Black Widow #1-2, the month before Ms. Marvel #1 and two months before Silver Surfer #1. Yikes.

I probably should have read this thing a while ago. Oh well! Also, I really need to read some Ms. Marvel.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:24 am

Col_Fury wrote:All-New Marvel Now! Point One happens before Loki: AoA #1, All-New Invaders #1, Black Widow #1, Avengers World #1 and somewhere during the Silver Surfer and Ms. Marvel series'. Also, while Bruce Banner is still working with SHIELD.

All-New Marvel Now! Point One was published the same month as Loki: AoA #1, All-New Invaders #1, Avengers World #1-2, Black Widow #1-2, the month before Ms. Marvel #1 and two months before Silver Surfer #1. Yikes.

I probably should have read this thing a while ago. Oh well! Also, I really need to read some Ms. Marvel.
Ms. Marvel 1/5 happens during the exposition of New York to the terrigen mist (so very shortly after Infinity).ANMN!PO happens between issues 5 and 6 (Kamala has her Ms. Marvel costume).

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:02 pm

Having now read the first several issues of Ms. Marvel, I agree! :)

MSM3 1-5 happen during INFINITY. 6-7 happen soon after, and 8-11 happen a day or two after that. Vinatos (an Inhuman doctor) appears in MSM3 6-11, and is killed in Inhuman #6, so these issues have to happen before Inhuman #6. Because Thor appears with Mjolnir in Inhuman #4-6, those have to happen before ORIGINAL SIN; therefore, MSM3 6-11 have to happen before ORIGINAL SIN as well.

MSM3 12 happens around Valentine's Day, and we've already established that Christmas is after ORIGINAL SIN. So, MSM3 12 is after ORIGINAL SIN.

Yay!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Here's where we're at:

INFINITY
Inhumanity: Superior Spider-Man (putting out fires)
Inhumanity: Awakening 1-2 (digging people out of rubble)
Inhumanity 1-2 (clearing out rubble)
AAI 7-12 (Inhumanity) (Attilan unguarded)
MA2 4-5 (Inhumanity) (Attilan guarded by SHIELD)
ANX 19-21 (X-23 joins Cyclops’ group)
UX3 15-16 (Inhumanity) (Terrigenesis in France)
AASS 21-25 (Inhumanity) (Wolverine w/Avengers) (Terrigenesis reported in France)
INDH 17-20 (Inhumanity) (Avengers fail to stop Terrigenesis)
NA3 12
CM8 17
Inhuman 1-3
SUPSM 17-19 (2099 comes to town)
SUPSMTU 5-8 (2099 already in town)
Longshot 1-4
W&X 38-41
X:L2 19-24
DPOOL vs. Carnage 1-4
TB3 20-26
Fearless Defenders 11-12
IM6 18-19
Superior Foes 1-17 (except the last page) (Black Cat free)
SUPSM 20-21 (Black Cat arrested)
SUPSM@
AMAZX2 1-6 (Nightcrawler returns)
A5 24 (Stark and Rogers discuss benching Logan and Spider-Man (Octavius)) (Danvers on Earth)
SUPSM 22-26 (Octavius leaves the Avengers)
SUPSMTU 9-10 (follows from SUPSM 22-26) (DD still in New York, apparently w/secret ID “intact”)
NA3 13-15
Silver Surfer v? 1-3
All-New Marvel Now! Point One
All-New Invaders 1-5 (“not long” after X:L2 23)
Nova v5 10/2-11
X3 7-12
All-New X-Factor 1-4
X-Men: No More Humans OGN
Thor: GoT 13-18
Loki: AOA 1
DD3 31-36 (DD reveals his secret ID) (FF in red suits)
UX3 17 / UX@ & ANX@ / UX3 18 / GOTG3 11-13 / ANX 22-24 (Nightcrawler appears)
ANX 25 (Watcher appears)
W&X 42
IM6 19-20
BW7 1
DD4 0.1 (DD moves across the country)
DPPPL:DG 1-7 (MODOK w/AIM)
SECA2 12-16 (MODOK leaves AIM)
IM6 20.INH
Revolutionary War (Carol Danvers on Earth)
BW7 2
X:L 300
MA2 6-9
SCARSPI2 24
SAVW 17
DD4 1 (Daredevil in San Francisco)
SH5 1 (She-Hulk starts her own law firm)
Avengers Undercover 1-7
SCARSPI2 25
NW5 1-9
Loki: AoA 2-3
DD4 2-5
IM6 21-22
Magneto v? 1-4
SH5 2-6 (DD in San Francisco) (She-Hulk finally gets clients)
W6 2-3-FBs (Wolverine already benched by Avengers, gets armor from Octavius, who already quit)
NC4 1-4 (Wolverine learning to use new armor)
MSM3 6-11 (Wolverine in new armor) (“not long” after Infinity)
IM: Fatal Frontier 3-13
FF5 1-4 (Wolverine in armor) (FF already in red suits) (Carol Danvers on Earth)
NC4 5-6 (Armor has her powers)
X3 13-17 (Armor has her powers)
W&X2 1-9 (DD San Francisco) (Armor loses her powers)
Avengers Undercover 8-10 (Sabretooth free)
W6 4-FB (Wolverine quits the X-Men) (Wolverine knows where Cyclops is based)
W6 1-12 (Wolverine gets back with the Avengers & makes up w/X-Men; no in armor w/Avengers before this) (Sabretooth imprisoned)
IM@
Loki: AoA 4-5
Thor: GoT 19-20
DPOOL5 27-28 (Hulk at bachelor party)
FCBD2014: GotG
BW7 3-6
AWORLD 1-14 (Wolverine w/Avengers in armor) (no Spider-Man) (Carol Danvers on Earth) (Hulk w/SHIELD)
INDH 20 / Hulk v? 1 (Hulk shot)
SUPSM 27-31 / SUPSM@ 2 / SUPSMTU 11-12 / ASM3 1-2 (Wolverine in armor w/Avengers) (end of Octavius as Spider-Man; Parker returns)
Hulk v? 1-4 (Carol Danvers on Earth)
CM9 10-FB-FB
CM9 1-FB
ASM: Family Business OGN
Iron Patriot 1-5
CM9 1-8 (Carol Danvers in space)
Moon Knight v? 1-6
All-New Ghost Rider 1-10
Iron Fist: Living Weapon #1-11, 12 (1-6)
CM9 10-FB
IM6 23-28
AMAZX2 7 (Parker as Spider-Man)
FF5 5
BW7 7
AMAZX@ 1
DPOOL@ v? 2 (Parker as Spider-Man)
ASM3 3
TB3 27-31
Thor: GoT 21-24
UX Spec / IM Spec / Nova Spec
AMAZX2 8-12 (Thor has Mjolnir)
XFOR4 1
NA@3 1
Secret Avengers v3 1-4
GotG3 14-17 (J'Son is deposed)
XFOR4 2-4
Inhuman 4-6
TB3 32 (Thor has Mjolnir)
Nova v5 12-17
ORIGINAL SIN

Stuff that still needs to get filled in:

A+X #13-18?

I'm sure there will be some tweaking here and there. Up next: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:41 pm

Hey Fury,
For as much as I fight you on some small issues, your doing a great job on getting all this started and roughing out the big picture. Keep up the great work. :applause:

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:40 pm

Thanks! :mrgreen:

And don't worry about disagreeing with me on anything; keep up the conversation! You never know when a comment about one thing will ring a bell about something else. :)

-edit-

I found a scribbled note about Avengers World and Original Sin, something about Black Knight. In theory, Thor's hammer and Hulk w/SHIELD both say AWORLD 1-14 should be before ORIGINAL SIN; what's going on with Black Knight here?
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