Marvel Two-in-One #1

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scottandrewhutchins
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Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by scottandrewhutchins »

After omitting it from the omnibus hardcover, this issue is included in the new The Man-Thing by Steve Gerber trade paperback. It follows this site in placing Marvel Two-in-One #1 between Fear #17 and 18. I remember criticizing this placement on these boards some years ago. The issue came out the same month as The Man-Thing #1, and fits most comfortably between #1 and #2. I do not understand the rationale for placing it earlier. Could someone please explain it to me? It feels intrusive in the earlier position.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Russ Chappell »

scottandrewhutchins wrote:I do not understand the rationale for placing it earlier. Could someone please explain it to me?
If you're asking for the Chronology Project's rationale for placing it there, I don't maintain extensive notes for the rationales behind placement, but a long standing policy here is that simply finding another placement that makes sense isn't good enough to change the listings, since, ideally, we've looked at a wide range of characters and sources to arrive at our placements. You have to show that the current placement CAN'T WORK.

I do have a theory, but the books I need are in a not-easily-accessible box. We show that Man-Thing appears in A 118 between AIF 17 and M/TIO 1. I SUSPECT that this placement comes from one of the Avengers Indices (either 1987 or 1994).

This leads to the conclusion that M/TIO 1 occurs between AIF 17 and AIF 18. If my theory is right, you'd have to approach the creators of the Official Avengers Index to glean their reasoning.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by scottandrewhutchins »

Man-Thing's appearance in A 118 is one panel.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Col_Fury »

scottandrewhutchins wrote:Man-Thing's appearance in A 118 is one panel.
I don't see how that's relevant.

Man-Thing appears in A 118, right? It's not a statue, or hallucination or something, but an actual appearance? The extent of his involvement shouldn't matter; the story happens when it happens.

Russ' point is, the placement of M/TIO 1 likely came from one of the Official Marvel Index to the Avengers series', which would have said something like "Man-Thing last appears in AIF 17, then here (A 118), and next appears in M/TIO 1" (of course, that means M/TIO 1 is before AIF 18, according to the Index). I don't have either the 1987 or 1994 Index series handy to check, but that theory makes sense (since this site is largely based off of those Index series').

Anyway, you asked what the reasoning was for why the MCP placed M/TIO 1 where it is; the most likely answer is "because that's where one of the Avengers Index series placed it."

Now, if you want to know why the Index placed it there (which is what it sounds like), we couldn't speak for the people who put those together 20-25 years ago. We could probably speculate, but speculation wouldn't answer that question.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Paul Bourcier »

OFFICIAL MARVEL INDEX TO THE AVENGERS #6 (George Olshevsky, June 1988):
Under the entry for Avengers #118 --
"The Man-Thing (in between ADVENTURE INTO FEAR #17 and MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE #1)"

OFFICIAL MARVEL INDEX TO THE AVENGERS #2 (Murray Ward, Nov 1994):
Under the entry for Avengers #118 --
"the Man-Thing (last in Fear #17; next in Marvel Two-In-One #1)"
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Col_Fury »

Thanks, Paul!
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by scottandrewhutchins »

I still think it's placed poorly because of the Jennifer Kale pages, which seem to suggest consecutive nights.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Col_Fury »

This is the first time I recall hearing anything about Jennifer Kale.

Tell us about it, and pretend none of us have read any of these comics when you explain things.

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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by scottandrewhutchins »

Well, in the issues of Fear where Jennifer plays only a minor role (16-18), the page or so we do see her reflects on her nightmares after her mental link to Man-Thing was severed, which comes to the forefront in Fear #19/Man-Thing #1. This makes me think MTIO #1 would come after Man-Thing #1, which also came out closer to that time, if that counts for anything, given that Jennifer Kale doesn't appear again for quite a while.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Russ Chappell »

I can understand and respect your feelings that the placement reads better another way (although, for the record, I can't find anything in your post to support that), but we don't overrule Marvel's official placements based on what "feels better." You have to show that the Index can't be right.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by StrayLamb »

scottandrewhutchins wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:17 pm I still think it's placed poorly because of the Jennifer Kale pages, which seem to suggest consecutive nights.
scottandrewhutchins wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:11 pm Well, in the issues of Fear where Jennifer plays only a minor role (16-18), the page or so we do see her reflects on her nightmares after her mental link to Man-Thing was severed, which comes to the forefront in Fear #19/Man-Thing #1. This makes me think MTIO #1 would come after Man-Thing #1, which also came out closer to that time, if that counts for anything, given that Jennifer Kale doesn't appear again for quite a while.
I understand where you're coming from with regards to Jennifer Kale, but although her appearances may seem to be occuring over a few days, AIF 19 page 7 (numbered 11) panel 2 specifically says that she's been suffering her nightmares for months. M/TIO 1 follows on immediately from Marvel Feature 11-12 and Captain Marvel 30. This involves The Thing (and by extension the Fantastic Four), Iron Man (and by extension the Avengers), Captain Marvel, and the Hulk, as well as Man-Thing. The placement for M/TIO 1 has to take into account the movements of all of these characters, and probably others. In reviewing these issues and character chronologies, i believe the current placement stands scrutiny for M/TIO 1.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by scottandrewhutchins »

Very well. I just can't see a good reason why it takes place so many months before it was published when it interferes with the flow so much. Of course, I kept saying that there was a Ted Sallis flashback in DD 113, and when I looked at it today, I saw that it only mentions him rather than shows him.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by StrayLamb »

It's not really such a big stretch in terms of publication dates. M/FEA & M/TIO were on a bi-monthly schedule at this time. For the Thing, Marvel Feature 11-12 and M/TIO 1 follow on directly from each other in quick succession, but they were published between 09/73 and 01/74. For Fear/Man-Thing, that equates to AIF 16-19 & M-T 1. A 118 was published 12/73. They're all in the same ball park. Heck, we have 24 issues of Thor placed between A 100 & A 101, and another 21 issues squished between 2 pages of A 109.
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Re: Marvel Two-in-One #1

Post by Russ Chappell »

scottandrewhutchins wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:22 pm I just can't see a good reason why it takes place so many months before it was published when it interferes with the flow so much.
I gave you the reason in my very first response. We placed it there because the Official Index tells us that. I went on to note that if you're wondering why the Index places it there, you'll need to ask George Olshevsky.
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