SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Col_Fury »

Makes sense to me!
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Siabod »

Hi

I've noticed a couple of omissions

1) FRANKEN-CASTLE (FC) #21 and the whole of Punisher: In the Blood (P:ITB #1-5) are missing. Punisher's index has hi listed as:
FC 20
FC 21
FC 21/2
P:ITB 1
P:ITB 2
P:ITB 3
P:ITB 4
P:ITB 5
IHS 615/2
SHDWL 1
So obviously need to be slotted in after FC #20 and before Shadowland started. There doesn't seem to be any clues as to when would be appropriate, though FC #21 takes place over "weeks"

2) There are some additional titles that should be added to Second Coming line
"X: SECCOM 1-2 / XF 204-206 / UX 523-525 / NM3 12-14 / X:L 235-237 / XFOR3 26-28"
to
X: SECCOM 1-2 / XF 204-206 / UX 523-525 / NM3 12-14 / X:L 235-237 / XFOR3 26-28 / X:BS 1 / X:HB 1-3
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Siabod »

Hi again, some more omissions

1) Looking at the indexes for Thunderbolt Ross, Sue Storm, Spider-Man Reed Richards, Spider-Girl, Luke Cage, and T'Challa
BP:MWF 514
BP:MWF 515
BP:MWF 516
BP:MWF 517
BP:MWF 518
SM&FF2 4
TB 151
TB 152
TB 153
YALLIES 1
YALLIES 2
YALLIES 3
YALLIES 4
YALLIES 5
YALLIES 6
is missing and should slot in between Ant-Man & Wasp 3 and DARKW 90

2) TB is missing and probably go as follows
Wolverine v4 5.1
TB 154
Thunderstrike v2 1

3) H2 29 - 36, as well as SG2 1-3 are missing and should flow as (at my best gues)
HULK 28
H2 29
H2 30

ASM 649
ASM 650
ASM 641
Taskmaster v2 1-4
Avengers Academy 7
Ant-Man & Wasp 3 (21 - 22)
Iron Man V5 26-33
X-Factor 215-224
ASM 654.1
ASM 652
ASM 653
ASM 654
Venom 1
ASM 655
ASM 656
X-23 v3 4
X-23 v3 5
X-23 v3 6
X-23 v3 7
D:DW 4 (start)
SG2 1
SG2 2
SG2 3
H2 30.1
H2 31
H2 32
H2 33
H2 34
H2 35
H2 36

Fantastic Four 581
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Siabod »

X-Factor 200-202 seem to been forgotton along the way, was on the list to be placed but then disappeared from discussion. Reed Richard's Index is

SENTRY:FS
XF 200-BTS
XF 201
XF 202
IIM 25

So it seems to come at start of "Siege to Fear Itself" so should read

Avengers Prime 1-5
New Avengers v2 1 (1 - 7)
Sentry: Fallen Son
X-Factor 200-202
Iron Man v5 25
Avenger v4 1 (1-5)
FCBD: Iron Man/Thor
...
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Russ Chappell »

Col_Fury wrote:Avengers Academy 10-12
FF 1-2 (start)
Hakweye: Blind Spot 1-4
What means this? Why are we breaking this issue up?

The only reasonable break in F.F. 2 occurs between pages 11 & 12. In pages 12-20, Doom's intellect is restored.

The next time F.F. is mentioned is in the Fear Itself to AVXanalysis, where we place F.F. 3.

In his Fear Itself chronology, Paul says that INCREDIBLE HULK v4 #5 – FB (1-3) must occur after Doom regains his intellect, which suggests that F.F. 2 (12 - 20) occurs before Fear Itself. Is there a problem with placing 12-20 the day after pages 1-11, as the story implies? This will cram a whole lot of stories between F.F. 2 & 3, which is going to be rather awkward, as the story clearly isn't intended to flow that way, but is there any other solution?
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Col_Fury »

Huh.

Looking back, the only three spots I found where a gap could be placed was between issues #2-3, during #3, and then during #5. I then immediately ruled out during #5 (because of Alex's broken arm). I'm not seeing anywhere where I thought there was a usable gap in #2. I suppose that's a typo, and I meant "FF 1-3 (start)"

However, I also pointed out that it's only implied that there's a short amount of time between issues #2-3, and "two days" is actually stated during #3, and I seemed to be leaning toward a gap between issues instead of during #3.

It's cleaner to have a gap between issues instead of during an issue, so let's do that (between #2-3). If we need an explanation, we could always say it took a while to arrange things on the FF's end before they sent out word to all the villains (which is how #3 starts).
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Russ Chappell »

That works. Thanks.
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by JaJa13 »

Hello!

First off, amazing work!!! I'm busy fleshing out the chronology even further (will be posting an update soon), but I'm stumped by Secret Warriors 20-28. Two main issues are that it seems SECWARR 20 is 6 months after Siege, and Slingshot has a shaved head which is a quite drastic change.

If anyone knows the placement of these issues that would be amazing, or even when Slingshot changed her appearance.

Thanks everyone!
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Russ Chappell »

Welcome to the Project, JaJa13.

We haven't announced it yet, but we added SECWARR 20-22 earlier this month. Check out Nick Fury's chronology.
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by BlakeComeaux »

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why there is a break between Secret Avengers 7 and 8. Issues 6-10 are the Eyes of the Dragon arc.
I did a search, but couldn't find any answers. I also read through the issues I had and nothing jumped out at me. I'd really appreciate if anyone who remembers could provide some insight.

Also, I know Secret Warriors 20-28 has been added to character chronologies, but does anyone know roughly where it would fit in the overall timeline?

Thanks!
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by StrayLamb »

I'm not sure about the reasoning for Secret Avengers, but Secret Warriors 20-28 should go like this..

Secret Warriors 20-27
Secret Warriors 28 (1-15)
Captain America 612-614
Captain America 615 (1-15)
Fear Itself: Sins Past 1
Captain America 615 (16-23)
---
Captain America 615.1
Captain America 616/1
X-Factor 217
Captain America 616/2-616/6
Captain America 616/7
Captain America 617-619
Secret Warriors 28 (16-23)

It looks like this section of the chronology needs a fix-up. Siobod pointed out several omissions back in 2016 that still haven't been added. If Col_Fury has no objections i might go thru this section using Siobod's list of omissions, and also double-check against the individual character chronologies to bring SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF up to date. :)
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by Col_Fury »

Feel free! I'm currently powering through a few things at the moment, so it might be a bit before I could take a look at this.
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by BlakeComeaux »

I did notice a few corrections that need to be made. Currently on Gorilla Man's chronology Deadpool Team-Up 889 is before Gorilla Man 1-3. These should be switched around, because in Gorilla Man, Borgia Omega steals Lucrezia Borgia's preserved head from a museum, while in Deadpool Team-Up, he already has the head with him.

Also, Thunderbolts 151-153 tie into the Scorched Earth storyline in Hulk 25-29. Issue 152 has an asterisk referencing Hulk 28 and the Scorched Earth storyline ends in 29. So I'd place the Thunderbolts issues roughly between the two. Songbird's chronology currently has Hulk 28 after TB 154.
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by StrayLamb »

Here's an updated listing for SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF based on observations made by Siabod, JaJa13, and BlakeComeaux, plus checks against individual character chronologies.

This has resulted in a couple of fairly minor changes in placement, and some considerable additions, which include Deadpool, Punisher, Agents of Atlas, Black Panther, Thunderbolts, Young Allies, Red Hulk, She-Hulks, and Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2.0, Thor and the Warriors Three, Carnage, Spider-Gilr, Silver Surfer, Heroes for Hire, and Secret Warriors.

I haven't been able to see a way to include BlakeComeaux's observations regarding Thunderbolts 151-153 tie into the Scorched Earth storyline in Hulk 25-29. There doesn't seem to be any way to act on this without disruption numerous character chronologies, and this may need to be looked into in more depth.

SIEGE
Avengers Prime 1-5
New Avengers v2 1 (1 - 7)
Sentry: Fallen Son
X-Factor 200-202
Iron Man v5 25
Avenger v4 1 (1-5)
FCBD: Iron Man/Thor
Secret Warriors 17-19
ASM 638-641
AGEOH 1
AGEOH 1/4
ASMP:ASON 1/2
ASMP:ASON 1-4
WOSM2 11-12
BCAT2 4
Iron Man/Thor 1-4
Thor 611-614
FCBD: Iron Man/Thor
Astonishing Thor 1-4
ASM 642-647
Avengers v4 1 (5-22) - 6
ASM 648 (1 - 25)
DPTU2 894
DPTU2 893
DPTU2 892
DP4 23-26
DPTU2 891
DPTU2 890
W:O 46-47 / DARKW 85-86
W:O 48-50
FC 17-18
DARKW 88
FC 19
DARKW 89
FC 20
FC 21 (begins)
HA:OML 1-5
W:WX 11-15
X-Factor 203
X: SECCOM 1-2 / XF 204-206 / UX 523-525 / NM3 12-14 / X:L 235-237 / XFOR3 26-28 / X:BS 1 / X:HB 1-3NM3 15-21
W:WX 16
UX:HA
X-Men: Legacy 238-243
UX 526/2
UX 526-529
GENH 1-4
UX 529-534
X-Factor 207-214
XO:DP (25 - 34)
VOMK 7
VOMK 8
DOOMWAR 6 (just the epilogue)
Vengeance of Moon Knight 9
Secret Avengers 1-FBs & 1-4
Steve Rogers: Super Soldier 1-4
Vengeance of Moon Knight 10
FC 21 (finishes)
Punisher: In the Blood 1-5
IAAA 5/2
IAAA 4/2
IAAA 5/3
IAAA 1
X:TS&P 3/2
Avengers Academy 1-2
Secret Avengers 5
Invaders Now! 1-5
ATLAS 1-5
GENH 5
Incredible Hulks 612-617
HERC:FA 1-2
HA: Prince of Power 1-4
CHAOS WAR & tie-ins (inc Hulks 618-620)
Incredible Hulks 621-623
IAAA 2/3
AGEOH 2/3
IAAA 2/4
SHSEN
H2 25-FB
NAMORA2
Gorilla Man 1-3
DPTU2 889
DP4 27-29
DPTU2 888
DPTU2 887
DPTU2 886
New Avenger v2 1 (8 - 24) – 7
IAAA 4
Thunderbolts 144-147 / Avengers Academy 3-4
Black Widow v6 1-5
ASTONSM&W 1-6
SHADOWLAND & tie-ins (inc DD 508-512 & TB 148-149)
Thunderbolts 150
Avengers Academy 5-6
Fantastic Four 575-580
FF@ 32
Ant-Man & Wasp 1-3 (1 - 20)
BP:MWF 514-518
SM&FF2 4
TB 151-153
YALLIES 1-6
DARKW 90
X-Men v2 1-6 & Curse of the Mutants tie-ins (inc N3 1-4)
Wolverine & Jubliee 1-4
Namor, First Mutant 5
W:RTH
X-23 v3 1-3
Daken: Dark Wolverine 1-3
Wolverine v4 1-9
DP4 30-31
Namor, First Mutant 6-8
W:RTH /3
Uncanny X-Force 1-4 & 5.1
Wolverine v4 5.1
TB 154
Thunderstrike v2 1-5
Hawkeye & Mockingbird 1-6
(red) HULK 25-28
(red) HULK 29-30
She-Hulks 1-4
X:TS&P 2/2
ASM 648 (26 - 39)-651
ASM:MEAL [DIGITAL COMIC]
Taskmaster v2 1-4
Avengers Academy 7
Ant-Man & Wasp 3 (21 - 22)
Iron Man V5 26-33
X-Factor 215-224
ASM 650/2-654/2, 654.1 (1 - 5), 652-654, 654.1 (6 - 20)
Venom 1
ASM 655-656
X-23 v3 4-7
D:DW 4 (start)
SG2 1-5
Incredible Hulks 626-635
Fantastic Four 581-588
(red) HULK 30.1-36
ASM 657
New Avengers v2 8
Avengers Academy 8-9
Avengers v4 7-12
A4 12.1 / Age of Ultron #10
Secret Avengers 6-7
KLAWS of the Panther 1-4
Uncanny X-Force 5-9
UX@ 3 / SR:SS@ 1 / Namor@ 1
X:L 244-248 / NM3 24-25 & Age of X tie-ins
Namor, the First Mutant 9-11
BICM/W 2/2
DP4 33.1
DP4 32-36
DP:MERC 1-13
PDPCORPS 1-5
PDPCORPS 2
PDPCORPS 3
PDPCORPS 4
DPCORPS 1-12
DPCORPS 1/2
DPF /4
W/DP:D
DP 1000
DP 1000/2
DP 1000/6
DP 1000/9
DP 1000/11
SKAAR:KSL 1-5
Secret Avengers 8-12
IM2.0 1-3
Secret Avengers 12.1
CA&SECA 1
Widowmaker 1-4
New Avengers v2 9-13 & 14-FB
ASTONX3 36-42
Warriors Three 1-4
T 620.1
T 615-621
Avengers Academy 10-12
GIRLC2 3/4
F.F. 1-2 (start)
Warriors Three 1-4
T 620.1
T 615-621

Hawkeye: Blind Spot 1-4
CA&FAL2
CA 606-611
Cap Corps 1-5
D:DW 4 (end)-7
D:DW 8-9 / X-23 v3 8-9
GENH 6-8
Avengers Academy Giant-Size
Avengers Academy 13
CRNG 1-5
OSBORN 1
SG2 6
SS5 1-5
HFH3 1-8
MT 1-6
Onslaught Unleashed 1-4
UX 534.1 & 535-538 & 526/2
ASTONX 43
ASM@ 38, DPOOL@ 1, IHS@ 1
CA 612-615
Secret Warriors 20-27
Secret Warriors 28 (1-15)
Captain America 612-614
Captain America 615 (1-15)
Fear Itself: Sins Past 1
Captain America 615 (16-23)
D:DW 9.1-20
IM 500-503
Avengers Academy 14
ASM 658-660
X-23 v3 10-12
ASM 658/2-660/2
Avengers: Children’s Crusade 1-9 (1 - 15)
X-Factor 225-228

UX 539
NM3 28
ASM 661-662
Punisher v9 1-4
CA 616-619
Captain America 615.1
Captain America 616/1
X-Factor 217
Captain America 616/2-616/6
Captain America 616/7
Captain America 617-619
Secret Warriors 28 (16-23)
HERC 1-2
ASM 663-664
FCBD11:ASM (1 - 15)
664/2
NA@2 1 / A@2 1
FEAR ITSELF
Last edited by StrayLamb on Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SIEGE to FEAR ITSELF

Post by StrayLamb »

There is a discrepancy between character chronologies for the relative placements of Warriors Three 1-4 and Avengers Academy 11-12.

Thor has Warriors Three listed prior to Avengers Academy 11-12. The Thing has it listed after Avengers Academy 11-12 and F.F. 1-2. Mr Fantastic also lists Warriors Three after F.F. 1-2. Spider-Man confirms Warriors Three after F.F. 1-2.

MR FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
---
IM2.0 1-FB
F.F. 1
F.F. 2
WARRSTHREE 2
SG2 6
---

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
---
NA2 14-FB
AACAD 11
AACAD 12-BTS
F.F. 1
F.F. 2
CRNG 1
---

THING2/BENJAMIN J GRIMM
---
NA2 14-FB
AACAD 11
AACAD 12-BTS
F.F. 1
F.F. 2
WARRSTHREE 2
SG2 6
---

THOR
---
SKAAR:KSL 5
WARRSTHREE 1
WARRSTHREE 4
T 620.1-FB
T 620.1
T 615
T 616
T 617
T 618
T 619
T 620
T 621
AACAD 11
AACAD 12
HAWK:BS 1
---

I propose that Avengers Academy 11-12 be relocated in Thor's chronology as follows..

THOR

---
SKAAR:KSL 5
AACAD 11 * MOVE TO HERE
AACAD 12 * MOVE TO HERE

WARRSTHREE 1
WARRSTHREE 4
T 620.1-FB
T 620.1
T 615
T 616
T 617
T 618
T 619
T 620
T 621
AACAD 11 * MOVE FROM HERE
AACAD 12 * MOVE FROM HERE

HAWK:BS 1

---

[EDIT - ignore this, it doesn't work, as BlakeComeaux points out below. A new solution is offered below]
Last edited by StrayLamb on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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