Spider-Man and New Avengers v1 #38

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robfj
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Spider-Man and New Avengers v1 #38

Post by robfj » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:27 pm

I've been looking at the apps of Mighty and New Avengers between World War Hulk and Secret Invasion. There's a clash between Spider-Man and other characters with the relative positioning of NA#38 and Cable & Deadpool #50, with Ms Marvel Annual #1 thrown in as a bonus.

SPIDER-MAN
----
ASM 545 (1 - 22)
ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
C&DP 50 **
MSM@ 1 **
ASM 605-FB-FB
M/CP2 1/3
NA 38 **
ASMF 4
ASM:FI (4 - 10)-FB
ASM 581-FB
ASM 545 (23 - 31)
----

MS MARVEL
----
NA@ 2
NA 38 **
C&DP 49
C&DP 50 **
MSM@ 1 **
MSM2 18
----

Fellow MA'ers Ares, Black Widow, Spider-Woman (Veranke) and Wonder Man are also in both NA#38 and C&DP#50, and agree with Ms Marvel's ordering.

There isn't any disagreement that all 3 issues follow One More Day. #38 starts the run of NA issues where they don't call Peter Parker by name, and Iron Fist suggests Spidey enters and exits their new HQ via the window to his personal room - possibly because he's the only 1 whose id they don't know. In C&DP#50 DP mentions a deal with Mephisto (and SM doesn't know what he's talking about). In MSM@1 MsM doesn't know his identity.

The simplest solution to the clash would be to change Spidey's ordering. And I think I can find a little bit of justification for it.

The appearances of Ms Marvel and the Mighty Avengers in these issues don't have anything particular to determine ordering. But Spider-Man's life around this time is in flux. In MSM@1 SM is out to pick up some baking soda for Aunt May. This fits with him living with her in this period and sometime later.

But in ASM#641 (36 - 37)-FB May is still recovering in hospital. PP and May are shown sharing a home in ASMF#4, and they are together in the 3 succeeding apps. But May doesn't appear between ASM#641 (36 - 37)-FB and ASMF#4, even when Peter is seen at home. This suggests May was still in hospital in that period, and makes it more reasonable to move MSM@1 to the time of ASMF#4 and later, and hence after NA#38.

The only reason to keep C&DP#50 early is Deadpool's reference to Mephisto. But that doesn't have to occur immediately after One More Day to make sense. (Ignoring the fact that it doesn't make sense for DP to know about Peter's deal anyway.) So I see no reason not to take C&DP#50 with MSM@1.

My particular suggestion is:-

SPIDER-MAN
----
ASM 545 (1 - 22)
ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
ASM 605-FB-FB
M/CP2 1/3
NA 38
ASMF 4
C&DP 50 ) moved from
MSM@ 1 ) before ASM 605-FB-FB
ASM:FI (4 - 10)-FB
ASM 581-FB
ASM 545 (23 - 31)
----

But I have no reason for that level of accuracy.



But I would venture to suggest another tweak in this area. Mary Jane shares some of Peter Parker's apps here:-

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE
----
ASM 545 (1 - 22) Mephisto changes the past.
ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB MJ leaves Peter and New York.
ASM 605-FB-FB PP & MJ argue about PP being SM.
ASM 545 (23 - 31) MJ attends Harry Osborn's party, avoids PP and leaves.
----

We have to assume that MJ returns briefly to NY for Harry's welcome-home party in ASM#545 (23 - 31). But it would make more sense for the argument in ASM#605-FB-FB to be before she leaves town in ASM#641 (36 - 37)-FB.

So I propose:-

WATSON-PARKER, MARY JANE
----
ASM 545 (1 - 22)
ASM 605-FB-FB moved from after ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
ASM 545 (23 - 31)
----

SPIDER-MAN
----
ASM 545 (1 - 22)
ASM 605-FB-FB moved from after ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
ASM 641 (36 - 37)-FB
M/CP2 1/3
----

AlexEvangeli
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Re: Spider-Man and New Avengers v1 #38

Post by AlexEvangeli » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:47 pm

In regards to the argument between Mary Jane and Spider-Man in ASM #605 (and ignoring how OOC it is) could I make an alternate suggestion?

I suggest it in fact doesn't happen during this time period at all.

Instead the issue is just referencing an arbitrary point during their relationship which Mary Jane is recalling as an example of what it 'was typically' like for her (even though it wasn't, but again OOC we're not here to discuss that). It never happened around the same time period that she and Peter were fugitives.

Because the argument involves her mentioning he was missing for two weeks and he is in his red and blue suit meaning if it happened around ASM #545/ASM #641 it would've had to have either been during Civil War when there was definitely no time for him to completely disappear for 2 whole weeks. The dialogue also is in organic in the context of them being wanted fugitives and is contradictory to that time period. Mary Jane references how she feels like a cop wife except she doesn't have anyone to talk to about what she goes through, which doesn't make sense if Aunt May knew Peter was Spider-Man back then and also considering by then she and Peter were ingrained into the superhero community and Sensational volume 2 #32 depicts her talking to Sue Storm and even referencing Jessica Jones whom she also knows personally.

During the Back in Black arc is definitely no-go given that Peter was wearing his black suit during that time period in addition to the fact that there was just not enough time for Peter to completely disappear for 2 weeks, and again the same dialogue problems persist.

And if you place it after Peter enacts the mindwipe in ASM #641, sure that means the dialogue about her not having anyone to talk to makes sense but what doesn't make sense is that in ASM #641 she left Peter in what clearly was intended in the story to be her ending things with him permanently (again OOC, but not the point).

To place the ASM #605 flashback after this event would be to somehow imagine that entirely off-panel with no mention at all Peter and Mary Jane reconnected, got back together, Peter disappeared for several weeks and then they had this argument and then MJ left even though the argument/ASM #605 doesn't show her actually doing that. And then she came back for Harry's party and things were frosty between them because she didn't forgive him for some slight (which ASM #641 tried to assert was Peter not letting her forget he was Spider-Man...which doesn't make sense, but again, again, again, not the point).

My point is ASM #605 would do better to be placed at some point well before the JMS run which began in ASM volume 2 #30, probably before the Gathering of Five arc in fact (don't have the issue numbers in front of me). By placing it there you have MJ isolated with few people to talk to about being with Peter (sans Black Cat), Peter is in his regular red and blue costume and it just fits better.
Last edited by Russ Chappell on Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removing quote. There's no need to quote an immediately prior post, in its entirety.

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Re: Spider-Man and New Avengers v1 #38

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:25 pm

Re: NA 38
Don't forget about that "Later…" caption at the start of NA 38's page 19. :)

Jessica moving into Stark's Avengers Tower was a reaction to the super villain attack at the unprotected hideout that Cage's Avengers was using (Strange's Sanctum Santorum), seen in NA@ 2. Moving NA 38 too far away from NA@ 2 kind of defeats that connection. However, it can't happen that early for Spider-Man, because NA@ 2 is pre-OMD (black suit) and NA 38 is post-OMD (red n' blue suit). Or at least, the last four pages where Spider-Man appears is post-OMD. Happily, there's that "Later…" caption on page 19 of NA 38.

So, NA 38 (1 - 18) is pre-OMD, and NA 38 (19 - 22) is post-OMD.

Luke and Jessica are the only ones that appear in both segments, but since they don't make appearances elsewhere during this time, they don't get a split for the issue in their chronologies.

As for Aunt May, well, she just doesn't appear in those comics. She could be out shopping, she could be asleep, she could be on the toilet, who knows? We can assume she's out of the hospital as of MSM@ 1 because of the baking soda thing, though.
-Daron Jensen

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