SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

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SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Somebody » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:19 am

Oh, THIS should give Paul B paroxysms ;). It's the "Skrulls in HoM" issue...

Veranke (still as Jessica Drew) "wakes up" immediately after the reality warp in a HoM-SHIELD uniform on board the Helicarrier. A group including Rogue, Nightcrawler, Mystique, Toad and Quicksilver notice she's disconcerted, and enquire after her well-being, telling her to fetch Logan while she's outside. She excuses herself and runs off to the toilet to vomit. (There's a background bit about how "Latveria has no ambassador" - is that a reference to FF:HoM?)

Elsewhere, "Hank Pym" (named as Criti Noll) has flashbacks to the real world and starts running into a crowd. Veranke flies down, picks him up and forces him to focus on who he really is, and they talk for a bit. She tells him to stay behind, but she (having seen Wolverine 'wake up' between the first scene and going after "Pym") is going to get a ride to Genosha to blow Wanda's brains out.

Jump cut to the Big Final Battle. She sneaks off with a gun, sees the Wanda/Hawkeye scene, and hesitates, leading to No More Mutants.

Now, (this is the bit Paul B won't like), the Skrulls meet in what's strongly implied to be shortly afterward - long enough for some version of the 198 Files list to be compiled, but no longer. Veranke's crying as they discuss it, and Skrullektra thinks it's a hangover from HoM (hence the no longer). Actually, it's because Annihilation Day+15 has come and gone, and the Skrulls' worlds have been decimated.

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:14 am

Yes, as I turned the page and saw the reference to Annihilation, I uttered "uh-oh, I better check this."

I currently have M-Day as June 29 and Annihilation +15 as the followimg November 1. At least the events are in the right order!

I'm going to have to move everything around anyway, so why not Annihilation? We'll see if moving ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE 1 (38-42), which happens on Annihilation + 15, closer to M-Day has any unpalatable ramifications.

Question: does the scene in NEW AVENGERS 45 fit within A:PROLOGUE 1 (38-42) or just before or after?
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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Somebody » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:09 am

If we're not bothering to spoiler-tag then.... there was actually one other thing I hesitated to bring up, but... Veranke woke up immediately after the reality wave/burn to white ended (technically, I suppose, any fake persona Wanda tried to give her just didn't take, unlike "Pym" who had Wolverine-style problems before waking up). As I recall, there were a lot of compromises made in the timeline originally so no-one, not even Wolverine, woke up until quite some time had passed, to avoid writing issues off as false flashbacks. The presentation in this issue might not make that untenable, but it holes it near the waterline.
Paul Bourcier wrote:I currently have M-Day as June 29 and Annihilation +15 as the followimg November 1. At least the events are in the right order!
Wasn't M-Day dated as the 2nd of November in Carey's X-Men, ooc? [And HoM could occur during Annihilation on the basis of NA 45 - Veranke just has to get word of the skrull massacre afterward.]
Paul Bourcier wrote:I'm going to have to move everything around anyway, so why not Annihilation? We'll see if moving ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE 1 (38-42), which happens on Annihilation + 15, closer to M-Day has any unpalatable ramifications.
I believe the entire basis for compressing ANN on your calendar to 50% of the Annihilation Day lengths was a cameo by Quasar in She-Hulk v2 #7, which a later issue referenced as being near the ASM "Road to Civil War" issues.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Question: does the scene in NEW AVENGERS 45 fit within A:PROLOGUE 1 (38-42) or just before or after?
Before. We see the aftermath of presumably the same attack (which would make it on the Verge System) in ANN:PRO, but not any actual attacks.

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by cweed4 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:13 pm

My interpretation was that Veranke, "Pym", and Wolverine all woke up immediately after the burn and that no time passed. All 3 of them had similar reactions of freaking out, Veranke just pulled it together before "Pym" did.

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Somebody » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:15 pm

cweed4 wrote:All 3 of them had similar reactions of freaking out, Veranke just pulled it together before "Pym" did.
Veranke was never HoM-Jessica in mind. She was one place one minute, and on the HoM Helicarrier the next, and freaked out at the change to the world around her. Whereas "Pym" initially *was* HoM-Pym, and then started to flashback to the real MU, freaked out at the identity confusion, and Veranke came in just as this was happening and sorted him out.

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by cweed4 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:06 pm

Somebody wrote:Veranke was never HoM-Jessica in mind. She was one place one minute, and on the HoM Helicarrier the next, and freaked out at the change to the world around her.
Agreed.
Somebody wrote:Whereas "Pym" initially *was* HoM-Pym, and then started to flashback to the real MU, freaked out at the identity confusion, and Veranke came in just as this was happening and sorted him out.
Unless you are talking about a few seconds or minutes I just don't see a difference. I consider the varying depictions as nothing more than the creative process from the writer/artist.


Here are some troubling things:
-The recap page for NA 45 lists both Veranke and "Pym" as sleeper agents. My understanding was that sleeper agents didn't even realize they were skrulls. That doesn't jive with some of their pre-HoM appearances.
-Veranke goes skrully in NA 45. Isn't that supposed to invalidate her undetectability from that moment on? That would cover a lot of time, especially when the NA are in Japan killing Skrullektra.
-The corresponding scene for the "Pym"/Hank McCoy discussion in HoM takes place in issue 2 (pg 15-17). The Wolverine "awakening" occurs right after on pgs 19-22 and continues in the beginning of issue 3. Then the HoM SHIELD agents are shown tracking down Logan by pg 16. But, in NA 45 Veranke picks up "Pym" immediately following his talk w/ Hank and after she finds out Wolverine is "awake" too? (And she traveled from NY to Chicago to do it.)


The biggest question I had from the issue was why Veranke didn't pull the trigger on Wanda?

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Somebody » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:58 am

cweed4 wrote:Here are some troubling things:
-The recap page for NA 45 lists both Veranke and "Pym" as sleeper agents. My understanding was that sleeper agents didn't even realize they were skrulls. That doesn't jive with some of their pre-HoM appearances.
This has been inconsistent all along - they've been having meetings in human form (and have another one at the end of the issue) where they obviously know they're skrulls. But, logically, they would need to not-know to pass telepathic inspection (according to some sources, their eyes are green when their own minds are in control; and whatever-colour-they-should-be when the mimicked minds are in control - but this doesn't seem to have been consistently applied either).
cweed4 wrote:-Veranke goes skrully in NA 45. Isn't that supposed to invalidate her undetectability from that moment on? That would cover a lot of time, especially when the NA are in Japan killing Skrullektra.
I'm pretty sure that it invalidates it while she's in skrull form (she lost control while in the toilet), but it then reasserts itself when she returns to "Jessica" form.

At least she had a better excuse than the "Talisman" in X-Factor #34...
cweed4 wrote:-The corresponding scene for the "Pym"/Hank McCoy discussion in HoM takes place in issue 2 (pg 15-17). The Wolverine "awakening" occurs right after on pgs 19-22 and continues in the beginning of issue 3. Then the HoM SHIELD agents are shown tracking down Logan by pg 16. But, in NA 45 Veranke picks up "Pym" immediately following his talk w/ Hank and after she finds out Wolverine is "awake" too? (And she traveled from NY to Chicago to do it.)
Ah, Bendis...

Were teleporters common in the HoM world?
cweed4 wrote:The biggest question I had from the issue was why Veranke didn't pull the trigger on Wanda?
I think we might be meant to assume that her "Jessica" personality is influencing her real personality. Although I don't see that the real Drew wouldn't have pulled the trigger under the circumstances...

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by cweed4 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:20 am

Somebody wrote: Although I don't see that the real Drew wouldn't have pulled the trigger under the circumstances...
Good point. I hope she is not undone by a similar programming malfunction like Captain Skrarvel... *brickwall*

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:43 pm

cweed4 wrote:
-The corresponding scene for the "Pym"/Hank McCoy discussion in HoM takes place in issue 2 (pg 15-17). The Wolverine "awakening" occurs right after on pgs 19-22 and continues in the beginning of issue 3. Then the HoM SHIELD agents are shown tracking down Logan by pg 16. But, in NA 45 Veranke picks up "Pym" immediately following his talk w/ Hank and after she finds out Wolverine is "awake" too? (And she traveled from NY to Chicago to do it.)
To which Somebody replied:
Ah, Bendis...
I think a gap can be placed between pages 12 and 13 of A4 45 to allow for Logan to "awaken" in HOM 2-3. It took a little while for Skrullowjacket's visions to make him run.
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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by cweed4 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:41 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:I think a gap can be placed between pages 12 and 13 of A4 45 to allow for Logan to "awaken" in HOM 2-3. It took a little while for Skrullowjacket's visions to make him run.
The problem I see is that the "Pym"/Hank discussion occurs before Wolverine "awakens" in HoM. But, in NA 45, that discussion takes place after Veranke and SHIELD have already started looking for a rogue Wolverine.

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Re: SI: Annihilation of the House of Macaroons [NAv #45 SPOILERS

Post by JephYork » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:09 pm

That's nothing -- the re-used background dialogue from the scene when Veranke "wakes up" is from issue SIX.

-Jeph!

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