FEAR ITSELF to AVX

[Col_Fury]

I'm also not seeing anything specific that says X3 30-37 has to happen after AVX 0.

That's where Storm's chronology currently has the X-Men issues (after AASS 6), and they were published concurrently with the Avengers Assemble issues, but Captain America & the Black Widow #639-640 were published after X3 37.

There's no character overlap, but I can see moving X3 30-37 to after NM3 49 and before CA&BW 636. This would require a change in Storm's existing MCP chronology.

[Col_Fury]

Quake: S.H.I.E.L.D. 50th Anniversary #1 has an editorial note that says it takes place before Avengers v4 #20.

Quake is shown palling around with the Avengers, on order from S.H.I.E.L.D. Captain America, Red Hulk, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Storm, Vision, Spider-Woman and Protector are members of the Avengers. Quake doesn’t seem to be a member, but Cap is testing her.

In A4 19, the Vision is reactivated and everyone is surprised, so this can’t happen before A4 19.

In A4 19, Iron Man calls the press, which are gathered in front of Avengers Mansion. As the press gather, Storm arrives and learns Captain America wants her to be an Avenger; this is the first she’s heard of it. As Storm’s thinking about it, Tony Stark reveals to everyone that the Vision’s back; everyone’s surprised. As Vision chats with people, Quake gives Cap an update on the search for the missing Norman Osborn. As the press kill time, Cap surprises Quake by telling her she’s an Avenger now, and the team walks out to announce the new lineup to the press. Norman Osborn crashes the press conference, and we’re right into the new few issues.

The ONLY spot I’m seeing for this is between pages 18-19 of A4 19. After Cap tells Quake she’s an Avenger, and before the lineup is announced to the press. We’ll have to assume the press that were already gathered in the first 18 pages were sent home, or something else was announced (like maybe Vision’s return?), and the press gathered on the last two pages (crashed by Osborn) was on a different, later day.

[Paul Bourcier]

How about between pages 8 and 9 of Avengers v4 #20?

[Col_Fury]

That is a more natural break. That would mean the editorial note in the Quake one-shot is kind of wrong (during A4 20 instead of before), but we've reinterpreted those before when we had to.

It does work better during A4 20, though. Thanks, Paul!

[Aragorn45]

Would it be possible to place Secret Avengers 16-21 before Fear Itself, and Secret Avengers 13-15, since the events of Fear Itself are ignored?

[Col_Fury]

Short answer? No. Comics are numbered for a reason, after all.

We would need some VERY heavy evidence to take comics out of numbered order, like an editor's note in the comic that says "this issue takes place before XXX" etc. or, a character dies in #15, but is alive in #16-21, and then is dead again without explanation in #22 (or something, you get the gist).

Yes, there are some comics out of numerical order in the MCP, but almost all of them are because the original Official Indexes did it (which the MCP is based on). There's one time we did it that I can think of, and that was because it was the ONLY way for the issue to be canon. I don't think that's the case with Secret Avengers (meaning, #16-21 happen before Fear Itself or they can't be canon). The only thing that Feat Itself not being mentioned in Secret Avengers #16-21 means is that Fear Itself wasn't important to the plot of Secret Avengers #16-21.

[Siabod]

Hi

One omission and on question

1) Are we to assume the death of the immortal weapons during The Defenders doesn't happen in the 616 universe or is it undone by the end of the story. I ask because most of them die during The Defenders but are present in the Spider Island story line

2) Uncanny X-Force 10-18 seems to be left out. It is in the first reading order on page one but then gets left out there after. Also it's placement on the first page seems off. UXFOR 10-18 leads to the creation of Tabula Rosa but has been placed after UX2 5-8. In UX2 5, Psylocke and the rest enter Tabula Rosa

[Col_Fury]

1) Yep, it's a divergent timeline. The beginning of the story and the last little bit of issue #12 happens in Earth-616, though (shortly after Fear Itself).

2) It's in there; #10-23 all happen during Wolverine & the X-Men #4, shortly after Wolverine #300 (which is all after UX2 5).

[Siabod]

1) thanks for clearing that up

2) I admit haven't read far past the list from UX2 5-8, ie I haven't got near
W4 20
W2 300-303
Daken: Dark Wolverine 21-23
W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23
W&X 4 (2 - 18)
W2 304

However still find it odd that UX2 5-8 is placed before UXFOR 10-18. I guess I'll need to catch/speed up on my reading to find the answer

Thanks again for taking the time

[Col_Fury]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Hmn.

UXFOR 10-23 (a basically continuous chain of events) are directly referenced in W&X 4 with overlapping scenes, so they have to happen there. And the placement of that block of issues that you pointed out happen there because of both Deadpool and Daken, so that whole batch pretty much has to stay where it is.

I'll have to dig around in my notes and take another look at UX2 5-8 & 4; hopefully it can be moved to later (it sounds like it has to be, right?). At a glance I see it's placed fairly close to UX2 1-3. I don't recall off the top of my head if there was an in-story reason for that.

Hopefully soon! Does anyone have any thoughts in the meantime?

Thanks, Siabod!

[Siabod]

Hi again

There is an editors note on the first proper panel of Uncanny X-men #5 writing that the creation of Tabula Rosa occurs in Uncanny X-Force #14.
So seem like UX #5-8,4 needs to bee moved later, like you said. But haven't read far enough forward to give any more help than this

[Col_Fury]

Emma Frost loses an arm in UX2 3, and she's still not participating in missions as of UX2 5; that's why UX2 5-8 was placed so close to UX2 3. I knew there was a reason!

UX2 1 (11-28)-3 & 4-FB (Frost loses an arm)
X-Men v3 20-29
UX2 5-8 & 4 (Frost out of commission) (after UXFOR 14)
Incredible Hulk 1-7.1
CA6 6-10
Villains for Hire 0.1-4
New Avengers v2 16.1
Avenging Spider-Man 4-5
(red) Hulk 49
Avengers: X-Sanction 1-4
New Avengers v2 17-23
Avengers v4 19, 20 (1-8)
Quake: S.H.I.E.L.D. 50th Anniversary 1
Avengers v4 20 (9-20), 21-24
F.F. 3-11
Fantastic Four 600-604 / F.F. 12-16 (Frost just fine)
New Mutants v3 37-41
W4 20
W2 300-303
Daken: Dark Wolverine 21-23
W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15) (before UX2 5-8)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23
W&X 4 (2 - 18)
W2 304
DPOOL4 50-54
Uncanny X-Force 24-35
Vengeance 1-6
ASM 676
X-Men: Legacy 261-265
DD3 7
ASM 677
DD3 8-10
ASM 678-679
GENH 13-17 (Namor feels need to check on Frost to see how she's doing; because of arm?)
ASM 679.1
Secret Avengers 22-25
(red) Hulk 50-52
Uncanny X-Men v2 9-10 (Frost's arm already back)

Emma Frost also appears (with two arms) in A4 24.1, which still isn't on this list. In She-Hulk's chronology, we have it before F.F. 11, so before FF 600, where Frost also appears (with two arms).

It looks like more things are going to have to be moved than just UX2 5-8 & 4.

More to come!

[Siabod]

I noticed that Hawkeye is wearing his old costume for FF 600. I don't know if this is a mistake or reflects that it should placed further back, before Frost hurts her arm and Hawkeye changes costume? Which first appears in Avengers Academy 22. However, in a comic (I forget which), he wears his old costume because the new is being laundered. This could be another time.

[Siabod]

Could you list just be rearranged as this

UX2 1 (11-28)-3 & 4-FB (Frost loses an arm)
X-Men v3 20-29
UX2 5-8 & 4 (Frost out of commission) (after UXFOR 14)
Incredible Hulk 1-7.1
CA6 6-10
Villains for Hire 0.1-4
New Avengers v2 16.1
Avenging Spider-Man 4-5
(red) Hulk 49
Avengers: X-Sanction 1-4
New Avengers v2 17-23
Avengers v4 19, 20 (1-8)
Quake: S.H.I.E.L.D. 50th Anniversary 1
Avengers v4 20 (9-20), 21-24
F.F. 3-11
Fantastic Four 600-604 / F.F. 12-16 (Frost just fine)
UX2 1 (11-28)-3 & 4-FB (Frost loses an arm)
X-Men v3 20-29
New Mutants v3 37-41
W4 20
W2 300-303
Daken: Dark Wolverine 21-23
W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15) (before UX2 5-8)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23
W&X 4 (2 - 18)
UX2 5-8 & 4 (Frost out of commission) (after UXFOR 14)
W2 304
DPOOL4 50-54
Uncanny X-Force 24-35
Vengeance 1-6
ASM 676
X-Men: Legacy 261-265
DD3 7
ASM 677
DD3 8-10
ASM 678-679
GENH 13-17 (Namor feels need to check on Frost to see how she's doing; because of arm?)
ASM 679.1
Secret Avengers 22-25
(red) Hulk 50-52
Uncanny X-Men v2 9-10 (Frost's arm already back)

Is there reason UX2 1-8 has to come before the others. From memory, I don't think so

[Siabod]

Otherwise potential for

W&X 4 (1:1 - 1:2)
Uncanny X-Force 10-19 (1 - 15) (before UX2 5-8)
W&X 4 (1:3 - 1:5)
UXFOR 19 (16 - 20) - 23

to cut out and placed before UX2 5-8? Possible even before. "X-Men: Regensis" the reason I suggest this that Psylocke makes a point about not being in the X-Force again to Cyclops within X-Men: Regensis

Both the W&X 4 sections can be seen as flash backs and W&X #2 proper starting on page 2 when they finally decided to come out about X-Force and bring Warren and genesis to the school. Bobby does mention at this time he hasn't spoken to Warren in Weeks and the school has been open for a week