SECRET EMPIRE to WAR of the REALMS

[Clive_Reston]

ASM 801 is it's own little thing and it’s fantastic.

It sure is. I think I've mentioned elsewhere that I strongly suspect it's set between ASM 545 (23 - 31) and ASM:SWING (1 - 14)--Dan Slott rounding out his run with a story set immediately before his first issue (cf. what's going on with Mr. Negative's crew)...

[StrayLamb]

Little oddity from today's X-Men Blue #35, a prelude to Extermination where the O5 kids are talking to their older selves about going back - Cullen Bunn writes (adult) Archangel exactly the way he left him from his Uncanny X-Men run, as a pacifist who doesn't especially resemble any prior version of Warren.

In-between, of course, has been Charles Soule's Astonishing X-Men run, which reverted Warren to his Kyle/Yost-era status quo of "normal" Warren/Angel who hulks out to "Angel of Death" Archangel (supposedly X fixed the "Angel of Death" thing so Warren was in full control of Archangel, but with the end-of-run mindwipe, that part didn't stick to judge from Rosenberg's ASTONX@, where he's again doing the Banner thing of trying to stay calm to avoid letting Archangel out).

So, here's the question - remembering that Soule's AstonXM #1-12 only actually lasts a day or so, and must take place before Hunt for Wolverine (because of Psylocke's reversion to Caucasian), would it be possible to plonk it after this, or are there more serious problems (Old Man Logan's status, perhaps?) that aren't publication order preventing it?

Some notes i've made on Astonishing X-Men 1-12 (i haven't read the annual or issues 13 up yet)..

In Astonishing #1, Rogue tells Beast she’s surprised to see him, after he decided to step away from the X-Men after the Inhuman War, which would indicate this should have taken place in the immediate aftermath of the X-Men/Inhumans War, but later events prove this to occur much later, and certainly after the Hydra War; Old Man Logan still has Adamantium claws, so before OML 33, unless that has to be put down to an art error. In issue #12, Rachel has her Hound markings, so after X-Men Gold 21, unless that also has to be put down to an art error.

Also, if the Shadow King really has been destroyed in issue 12, this must be before Black Bolt returns to Earth in Black Bolt 8, as he is one of the powerful minds who detects Black Bolt's return, along with Jean Grey, Dr Strange, and Loki.

[Col_Fury]

The present-day bit of MT:GATES happens after T 706. Only Jane Foster appears (basically), so it could go anywhere. I’m tempted to put it shortly after T 706, though, and this is Jane seriously starting her cancer treatments.

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C&DP@ 1 is a quick time-travel adventure. I guess Cable and Deadpool worked out their differences because they’re getting along pretty well here (and Cable has his “classic” arm). Published the month after C 159 and the same month as DP7 3. Obviously, before EXTRMNTN 1.

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MSM4 19 starts on Eid al-Adha. In 2017 the holiday started on August 31 but it moves around; sometimes it’s in July, mid-August, late-August, etc. Let’s say this one’s mid-summer.

MSM4 19-22 happens over a few days (in “mid-summer”). MSM4 23-24 is at the start of a school semester (so “mid/late-August”). MSM4 25-28 happens over a few days and is “a few weeks” after MSM4 24; no appearances for Ms. Marvel elsewhere between MSM4 24-25. MSM4 29 SEEMS to pick up shortly after #28, but doesn’t have to. MSM4 29-30 spans about a week (and ends on a “Spring Fling” dance. Wha? I’m just going to say it’s homecoming). MSM4 31 says that MSM4 29 was “the other day.” MSM4 32 has no reference I saw to how long it’s been since previous stories so we have a clear break. MSM4 32 starts a new adventure that lasts at least through MSM4 35 (which isn’t out yet); Shocker’s the villain.

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The previously mentioned CHMPS2 22 continues into CHMPS2 23 which ends with Wasp and Sam (formerly Nova) vanishing. It seems to be a cliffhanger, but the next issue has nothing to do with this.

CHMPS2 24 starts the week before school begins (students are choosing their classes), so we’re in “mid-August.” Spans at least 12 days, maybe two weeks. Cho is now “Brawn” so we’re after CHMPS2 22. Spider-Miles appears so we’re after SM2 240 and CHMPS2 22. Wasp and Sam (formerly Nova) do not appear so it’s possible this happens in publication order, depending on how CHMPS2 25 starts (which isn’t out yet). If CHMPS2 25 picks up where #23 left off (in the swamp with Man-Thing), then CHMPS2 24 will have to take place after whenever that plot wraps up. Either way, CHMPS2 22 has to be before the start of a school semester (because #24 is also, and #22 has to be before #24).

[Col_Fury]

JG 4 has nu-Jean chatting with unworthy Thor.

JG 5 has nu-Jean visiting Psylocke to learn how to make weapons with her telekinesis, so shortly after last issue? nu-Jean (finally) figures out the voice in her head is real.

JG 6 has nu-Jean visiting Doctor Strange (blue cloak) to get rid of the voice in her head. nu-Jean finds out it’s the ghost of regular Jean, who says she’s been a voice in nu-Jean’s head for “weeks.” Same month as DS4 24 (a SECEMP tie-in).

JG 7 has regular Jean actively haunting nu-Jean, who visits the Scarlet Witch (same as UA3 27), then the action continues through #10, which is a cliffhanger for PHXR:ROJG. JG 11 happens during PHXR:ROJG; I’m going to say between #3-4.

As previously discussed, Jubilee is still a vampire in PHXR:ROJG 1-5 and so has to be before GENX2 8-9 & GENX 85-87 where she stops being a vampire. Also, after X:G 21 because of Rachel and before OML2 33 because of the old man.

PHXR:ROJG 1-5 were published at the same time as A 674-678. Rogue appears in both (as does Beast).

Some hay’s been made about Quentin having a Phoenix shard during this time (which isn’t mentioned in JG 10), but Emma Frost still has one (which IS mentioned in JG 10). So right there, it’s entirely possible that Quire could still have a piece of it. Maybe that’s why his trick worked on nu-Jean in #10? (that’s not said anywhere, that’s just me theorizing)

GENX2 8-9 & GENX 85-87 happens over three or four days; Quire loses his piece of the Phoenix and Jubilee stops being a vampire (yay!).

[StrayLamb]

JG 11 happens during PHXR:ROJG; I’m going to say between #3-4.

I sorta took that to be the other way around.. that PHXR:ROJG takes place during JG 11, between pages 28 & 29, like this: JG 7-11 (1-28) > PHXR:ROJG 1-5 > JG 11 (29-30) [Returns to Madripoor]

[Col_Fury]

Ack! Yeah, I forgot about the last few pages of JG 11.

JG 11 vs. PHXR:ROJG is an odd duck. Only the Phoenix Force appears in both (outside of that epilogue in JG 11), and a blurb in #4 tells us to read JG 11 to find out what happened to the other psychics. And yet, JG 11 has nothing to do with that (nu-Jean's in the White Hot Room). Somehow Emma escaped JG 10 to appear in PHXR:ROJG but we never find out how (even though she references the other psychics in JG 10 being attacked). Bleh.

Would the Phoenix Force let nu-Jean go before it started working on real Jean? (JG 11 before PHXR:ROJG 1) Or, would the Phoenix Force let nu-Jean go after it was convinced real Jean was ready to be a host? (JG between #3-4)

[StrayLamb]

Would the Phoenix Force let nu-Jean go before it started working on real Jean? (JG 11 before PHXR:ROJG 1) Or, would the Phoenix Force let nu-Jean go after it was convinced real Jean was ready to be a host? (JG between #3-4)

Ah, yes, that makes sense now.

[Col_Fury]

OML2 31-35 is one story in Japan (over a week or so), Logan was feeling cooped up in the X-Mansion, and he gets his right hand chopped off (it grows back but with bone claws. If he appears elsewhere with two sets of metal claws those comics will likely have to be before this (we could always say “art error” but bleh). Gorgon appears trying to kill Logan.

OML2 36-38 doesn’t mention how long it’s been since last issue. Kingpin is now mayor of NYC and is still actively against vigilantes (so before DD 598-605 where Kingpin agrees to back off his vigilante stance) (published at same time as DD 600-601). Logan’s left eye is damaged.

OML2 39-40 has Logan verify his healing factor isn’t working right and seemingly deciding to leave the X-Men for good. Logan’s left eye is dead.

OML2 41-42 has Kraven hunting Logan.

OML2 43-45 is “a few weeks” since #36-38, and Bullseye has been on a rampage ever since (so probably no appearances for him in the meantime).

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ANW 25-30 happens over a week or two; Daken Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike and Logan appear. Logan has two sets of metal claws, so before OML2 31-35. Gorgon appears helping Logan’s extended family. Published at the same time as WX3 9-13.

ANW 31 guest stars Deadpool (same as DDP 294-295).

ANW 32 is another standalone adventure.

As mentioned earlier, ANW 33-35 is entirely in a possible future.

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WX3 12 has Domino saying that they (this particular group) has been “hiding out for too long,” which seems to imply they haven’t made any appearances since the Weapon H story. It could also mean they met up after SECEMP and have been hiding since then (if so, this would be the group’s first appearance since the crossover, but maybe not Logan’s).

WX3 12-14 is one story and happens over a few days.

WX3 15-16 happens in a night on Logan’s birthday; Sabretooth tries to kill Logan (as is tradition). Logan has two sets of metal claws and two good eyes.

WX3 17 has Logan in a wheelchair and is still recovering from his fight with Sabretooth from last issue. He notes his healing factor isn’t working right, and his left eye is dead, so we’re after at least OML2 38, if not OML2 40. Of course, this means Logan having two sets of metal claws in WX3 15-16 is an art error. WX3 19 has Logan saying his healing factor went on the fritz shortly before his fight with Sabretooth (so shortly before WX3 15); but is he talking about the verification (OML2 40)? He’d almost have to be, I think. WX3 19 came out the same month as OML2 41-42.

WX3 17-21 is one story and happens over a day or two. Warpath quits and Logan leaves the team in Sabretooth’s hands. As noted, no appearances for Logan between WX3 16-17, but that’s probably a day or fur at most.

WX3 22 starts a new story with no mention that I can see of how long it’s been since #21.

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ASTONX4 1-12, as mentioned, happens over a day or two. Logan has two sets of metal claws (and his healing factor’s working pretty great) so before OML2 31. Shadow King is seemingly killed, so after BB 12 (BB 12 and ASTONX4 10 came out the same month). After X:G 21 for Rachel.

In theory:

WX3 12-14
DPV.OML 1-5
ANW 25-30 (metal claws)
ASTONX4 1-12 (metal claws, after BB 12, after X:G 21)
OML2 31-35 (bone claws, after ASTONX4 12)
OML2 36-38 (dead left eye, before DD 598)
OML2 39-40 (verifies healing factor not right, leaves X-Men?)
OML2 41-42
WX3 15-21 (bone claws, dead left eye)
OML2 43-45 (“a few weeks” since OML2 38)

[StrayLamb]

OML2 43-45 is “a few weeks” since #36-38, and Bullseye has been on a rampage ever since (so probably no appearances for him in the meantime).

No appearances for Bullseye might prove to be problematic. Bullseye appears in Punisher 224, Secret Warriors 6-7, and Despicable Deadpool 297-298. Alternatively, "a few weeks" may have to be compressed.

[StrayLamb]

OML2 36-38 doesn’t mention how long it’s been since last issue. Kingpin is now mayor of NYC and is still actively against vigilantes (so before DD 598-605 where Kingpin agrees to back off his vigilante stance) (published at same time as DD 600-601). Logan’s left eye is damaged.

OML2 39-40 has Logan verify his healing factor isn’t working right and seemingly deciding to leave the X-Men for good. Logan’s left eye is dead. WX3 15-16 happens in a night on Logan’s birthday; Sabretooth tries to kill Logan (as is tradition). Logan has two sets of metal claws and two good eyes.

In WX3 15, Domino mentions it's the night to set the clocks back one hour, which according to my Google search is November 5. Of course it could be on a different date in the Marvel U, but if we take it at face value, this would place WX3 15-16 very shortly before Wilson Fisk becomes Mayor. This would also fit with Logan having Adamantium claws during the battle with Sabretooth. WX3 15-16 can be placed separately from WX3 17-21 (see below).

WX3 17 has Logan in a wheelchair and is still recovering from his fight with Sabretooth from last issue. He notes his healing factor isn’t working right, and his left eye is dead, so we’re after at least OML2 38, if not OML2 40. Of course, this means Logan having two sets of metal claws in WX3 15-16 is an art error. WX3 19 has Logan saying his healing factor went on the fritz shortly before his fight with Sabretooth (so shortly before WX3 15); but is he talking about the verification (OML2 40)? He’d almost have to be, I think. WX3 19 came out the same month as OML2 41-42. WX3 17-21 is one story and happens over a day or two. Warpath quits and Logan leaves the team in Sabretooth’s hands. As noted, no appearances for Logan between WX3 16-17

There's another way of looking at this. WX3 17 looks like it's supposed to be not too long after Logan & Sabretooth's fight, although they've had time to get a new Blackbird from Kitty Pryde to replace the destroyed Olympus Group craft. Domino wishes Logan a belated happy birthday, and he says he's still recovering from the battle with Sabretooth. I couldn't find where Logan mentions his healing factor isn’t working right in WX3 17. His left eye appears dead, but do we have to be after OML 38.?

I suggest that we could have Logan coming out of the battle with Sabretooth with his left eye seriously injured. Perhaps this injury was not completely healed by the time he went into battle with Bullseye, and when Bullseye injured the same eye again, he finished it off. As mentioned, Logan is shown with Adamantium claws during his battle with Sabretooth. In WX3 17-21, we don't see Logan's claws at all (except on the covers), so there's no reason to assume they're not still Adamantium at this point. I offer this merely as an alternative to give us some latitude in the overall scheme, if needed.

My suggestion is that we separate out WX3 15-16, placing it before OML 31-35, and that we could also do the same with WX3 17-21..

WX3 12-14
DPV.OML 1-5
ANW 25-30 (metal claws)
ASTONX4 1-12 (metal claws, after BB 12, after X:G 21)
WX3 15-16
WX3 17-21 (either bone or Adamtium claws - not shown, dead left eye) - Could go here
OML2 31-35 (bone claws, after ASTONX4 12)
OML2 36-38 (dead left eye, before DD 598)
OML2 39-40 (verifies healing factor not right, leaves X-Men?)
OML2 41-42
WX3 17-21 (either bone or Adamtium claws - not shown, dead left eye) - Could go here as per Col-Fury's suggestion
OML2 43-45 (“a few weeks” since OML2 38)

Also, some cameo appearances of Logan with Adamantium claws on right hand may have to be put down to art errors, rather than trying to shuffle every cameo prior to OML 31-35.

As noted, no appearances for Logan between WX3 16-17, but that’s probably a day or fur at most.

A day or fur?

Sorry, that tickled me.

[StrayLamb]

Have we dealt yet with OML 25-30 & WX3 7-11..? They need to go into this topic as well. We finished prior to Secret Empire with OML 24 & WX3 6.

[Col_Fury]

WX3 7-11 happens pretty much immediately after the crossover with TAH (they're searching for Weapon H), and is currently placed before SECEMP.

OML2 25-30 has Hawkeye talking about him killing the Hulk as if that's the last time anything has happened with the Hulk, and yet Hulk is (briefly) revived during SECEMP. It's also currently placed prior to SECEMP.

To be fair, Domino was drinking and joking when she mentioned that. (what day issit? I dunno, daylight savings time? *burp*)

Good point with the replacement Blackbird. Hmn.

[StrayLamb]

Aha - looks like the Civil War II to Secret Empire list had a tweak after i copied it over to my pc. I should have rechecked the source.

[Somebody]

ASTONX4 1-12, as mentioned, happens over a day or two. Logan has two sets of metal claws (and his healing factor’s working pretty great) so before OML2 31. Shadow King is seemingly killed, so after BB 12 (BB 12 and ASTONX4 10 came out the same month). After X:G 21 for Rachel.

Also, Hope's cameo (with scarred eye) places it after Cable #155-159.

Any comment on the Archangel/X-Men Blue thing I mentioned before?

[StrayLamb]

Also, Hope's cameo (with scarred eye) places it after Cable #155-159.

Also, Hope isn't scarred in Jean Grey 9-10, placing this prior to Astonishing X-Men. [Edited out the rest - sometimes i confuse myself ]