The Destroyer in the 1940s

[zilch]

Australia?

-z

[Leoparis]

Plenty of corners of the US we don't visit that often, and which have fairly few resident heroes.

I briefly considered this but all fifty states of the US were mentioned during Avengers Initiative with lists of resident heroes. Destroyer would be expected to have been mentioned during or after Civil War if he lived in the US.

The world of Kirkman's Destroyer has masked government agents as well as a whole cast of villains we never saw, a flying island, a submarine base. It has a rich backstory that seems remote from the US-centric Marvel universe.

I will endorse the series being made canon any way that fits, be it Australia, New Zealand, some Pacific island, even a remote part of the US like Hawaii (the skyscrapers of Honolulu are a good visual match).

I like the potential of a South Africa--with an Elon Musk equivalent that would have designed all that advanced tech.

I can see how the costumes, especially Turret's, look like the Phantom, who's the most popular character in Australia, but based in Africa.

[loki]

Plenty of corners of the US we don't visit that often, and which have fairly few resident heroes.

I briefly considered this but all fifty states of the US were mentioned during Avengers Initiative with lists of resident heroes.

Did they all get covered? When we were working on the Initiative's handbook entry I seem to recall there were a good number of states with no groups yet identified. We got told all the states had teams, but we didn't get told who all of those teams were. I believe something like 23 states remain unaccounted for. That leaves plenty of places for Destroyer to be operating, assuming he was still doing so in the modern day.

Destroyer would be expected to have been mentioned during or after Civil War if he lived in the US.

And that's the second point - if the Destroyer mini took place a couple of decades ago, and he's now no longer active, we'd not expect to hear from him during or after Civil War, anymore than we heard from the Smithville Thunderbolt

The world of Kirkman's Destroyer has masked government agents as well as a whole cast of villains we never saw, a flying island, a submarine base. It has a rich backstory that seems remote from the US-centric Marvel universe.

We learn of new villains, agencies, etc. all the time, often discovering they've been around for years but previously unnoticed by we readers. So that wouldn't require him to be set outside of the U.S. Plus, again, if it was a few decades back the reason we haven't heard about these guys is the same reason we don't hear about the First Line all the time - they're dead or retired for the most part.

I will endorse the series being made canon any way that fits, be it Australia, New Zealand, some Pacific island, even a remote part of the US like Hawaii (the skyscrapers of Honolulu are a good visual match).

I like the potential of a South Africa--with an Elon Musk equivalent that would have designed all that advanced tech.

I can see how the costumes, especially Turret's, look like the Phantom, who's the most popular character in Australia, but based in Africa.

I'm not saying it couldn't be outside the U.S., just that I don't see anything that would prevent it being within the mainland U.S.A.

[Leoparis]

Did they all get covered? When we were working on the Initiative's handbook entry I seem to recall there were a good number of states with no groups yet identified. We got told all the states had teams, but we didn't get told who all of those teams were. I believe something like 23 states remain unaccounted for. That leaves plenty of places for Destroyer to be operating, assuming he was still doing so in the modern day.

Which were those states? Which of the 23 US states have the tall buildings, fair weather, submarine location (could be a lake--do all states have lakes?) I'd like to get from the possible to the probable (to avoid the possibiliter ergo probabiliter fallacy). Is there a state that could have developed such a distinctive program of superhero action (resources? I believe all states that have the resources of nation states, like California and Texas, have their superhero teams).

And that's the second point - if the Destroyer mini took place a couple of decades ago, and he's now no longer active, we'd not expect to hear from him during or after Civil War, anymore than we heard from the Smithville Thunderbolt Plus, again, if it was a few decades back the reason we haven't heard about these guys is the same reason we don't hear about the First Line all the time - they're dead or retired for the most part.

OK, you say the series can take place before the Civil War. Keene is nearly 100 years old in #5. This makes him close to 30 in 1941 if it occurs in 2009. But 2009 is not a couple of decades ago, before the start of the modern era like the First Line example. In order for him to be nearly 100 two decades ago he would have had to be close to 40 in 1940. That's possible. But Destroyer gets succeeded by Darius, what about him? He got killed or retired before Civil War?

The world of Kirkman's Destroyer has masked government agents as well as a whole cast of villains we never saw, a flying island, a submarine base. It has a rich backstory that seems remote from the US-centric Marvel universe.

We learn of new villains, agencies, etc. all the time, often discovering they've been around for years but previously unnoticed by we readers. So that wouldn't require him to be set outside of the U.S.

That may have been true in the 60s and 70s but it's become rare. The point is that everything in the series is new to the reader yet has been around for a long time: the two heroes, the villains (Horde, Richard Marlow, Techtronica, Doctor Devastation, Bruiser, Scavenger, Scar, Crocodile, Organite, Krakoom), the submarine base and flying island, the huge flying ship, the agency. There is also the matter of Destroyer casually killing his enemies, including inmates.
It's all so previously unheard of that until now, this series was deemed noncanon.

I'm not saying it couldn't be outside the U.S., just that I don't see anything that would prevent it being within the mainland U.S.A.

There is a mention of the Pentagon at the end.

Let's just wait four years for the sliding time scale to get past 2009 and the story will occur on its publication date & before FF 1.

[StrayLamb]

Let's just wait four years for the sliding time scale to get past 2009 and the story will occur on its publication date & before FF 1.

[loki]

Did they all get covered? When we were working on the Initiative's handbook entry I seem to recall there were a good number of states with no groups yet identified. We got told all the states had teams, but we didn't get told who all of those teams were. I believe something like 23 states remain unaccounted for. That leaves plenty of places for Destroyer to be operating, assuming he was still doing so in the modern day.

Which were those states? Which of the 23 US states have the tall buildings, fair weather, submarine location (could be a lake--do all states have lakes?) I'd like to get from the possible to the probable (to avoid the possibiliter ergo probabiliter fallacy). Is there a state that could have developed such a distinctive program of superhero action (resources? I believe all states that have the resources of nation states, like California and Texas, have their superhero teams).

Which states? Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming. Connecticut had Camp Hammond but no actual team. Alaska and Rhode Island both had only a single Initiative hero. Between those I'd imagine there's going to be at least some with all the requisite components you've listed.

And that's the second point - if the Destroyer mini took place a couple of decades ago, and he's now no longer active, we'd not expect to hear from him during or after Civil War, anymore than we heard from the Smithville Thunderbolt Plus, again, if it was a few decades back the reason we haven't heard about these guys is the same reason we don't hear about the First Line all the time - they're dead or retired for the most part.

OK, you say the series can take place before the Civil War. Keene is nearly 100 years old in #5. This makes him close to 30 in 1941 if it occurs in 2009. But 2009 is not a couple of decades ago, before the start of the modern era like the First Line example. In order for him to be nearly 100 two decades ago he would have had to be close to 40 in 1940. That's possible. But Destroyer gets succeeded by Darius, what about him? He got killed or retired before Civil War?

Darius could have been killed or retired. Or he might simply just not have been mentioned during Civil War. There were literally hundreds if not thousands of minor heroes we didn't hear from during that event. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The world of Kirkman's Destroyer has masked government agents as well as a whole cast of villains we never saw, a flying island, a submarine base. It has a rich backstory that seems remote from the US-centric Marvel universe.

We learn of new villains, agencies, etc. all the time, often discovering they've been around for years but previously unnoticed by we readers. So that wouldn't require him to be set outside of the U.S.

That may have been true in the 60s and 70s but it's become rare. The point is that everything in the series is new to the reader yet has been around for a long time: the two heroes, the villains (Horde, Richard Marlow, Techtronica, Doctor Devastation, Bruiser, Scavenger, Scar, Crocodile, Organite, Krakoom), the submarine base and flying island, the huge flying ship, the agency. There is also the matter of Destroyer casually killing his enemies, including inmates.
It's all so previously unheard of that until now, this series was deemed noncanon.

I'd disagree that it's become rare for us to discover the existence of new stuff that's been around unnoticed in the background for years. It remains ridiculously common. And again, if we assume either it is pre-modern age or in a less traveled part of the U.S. that we simply don't see very often, then it's really not hard to accept we're encountering a lot of individuals who are new to us but have been operating there for some time.

I'm not saying it couldn't be outside the U.S., just that I don't see anything that would prevent it being within the mainland U.S.A.

There is a mention of the Pentagon at the end.

In which case that's some evidence towards it being within the U.S.

Let's just wait four years for the sliding time scale to get past 2009 and the story will occur on its publication date & before FF 1.

And you've made my point for me - if you are worried this can't be set prior to the "modern age" because of references in-story to Keen's age, then it's only a matter of real world time before the sliding timescale sorts that problem.

[Leoparis]

BRUISER
DEST3 2
DEST3 3

CROCODILE II
DEST3 3

DESTROYER II/KEEN MARLOW/KEENE MARLOW
ALLSC 10/3
DEST3 1
DEST3 2
DEST3 3
DEST3 4
DEST3 5

DESTROYER V/DARIUS (from TURRET)
DEST3 5

DOCTOR DEVASTATION
DEST3 2

KRAKOOM
DEST3 4

MARLOW, FELECIA
DEST3 1
DEST3 2
DEST3 3
DEST3 4
DEST3 5

MARLOW, HALEY
DEST3 1
DEST3 2
DEST3 3
DEST3 4
DEST3 5

MARLOW, HARRIET
DEST3 1
DEST3 2
DEST3 3
DEST3 4
DEST3 5

MARLOW, RICHARD
DEST3 1

ORGANITE
DEST3 3

SCAR
MYSC 6/2
DEST3 3

SCAVENGER
DEST3 3

TECHTRONICA
DEST3 2
DEST3 5

TURRET/DARIUS
DEST3 1
DEST3 2
DEST3 3
DEST3 4
see DESTROYER IV