Marvel Chronology Project

AXE: Judgment Day to 2023 Hellfire Gala:

X-Men: Before the Fall - Heralds of Apocalypse 1 (18 - 22)-FB
Black Panther 15 (16 - 20)
Wolverine 26
Wolverine 27 (12 - 14, 17 - 18)-FB
Wolverine 27 (1 - 3)-FB
Marvel’s Voices: Pride II 1/8 [intro Escapade]
Marauders 7-10
Wolverine 27 (4:1 - 4:2)-FB
X-Men Red 8-10
New Mutants 25-28
X-Terminators 1-5
Wolverine 27 (4:3 - 4:4)
Legion of X 7 (1 - 16)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 67-85
Marauders 11-12
Wolverine 27 (5:1 - 5:2)
Immortal X-Men 8-10
Sins of Sinister 1 (3 - 7)
Legion of X 7 (17 - 20)
Legion of X 8-10
Sins of Sinister 1 (8 - 33)
Sins of Sinister 1 (1 - 2)-FFWD
Sins of Sinister 1 (34 - 40)
Storm and the Brotherhood of Mutants 1
Nightcrawlers 1
Immoral X-Men 1
Nightcrawlers 2
Immoral X-Men 2
Storm and the Brotherhood of Mutants 2
Immoral X-Men 3
Storm and the Brotherhood of Mutants 3
Nightcrawlers 3
Sins of Sinister: Dominion 1 [Loops back to Immortal X-Men 10]
Guardians of the Galaxy vol.7 6-FB [The Origin of Grootfall]
X-Men: Before the Fall - Heralds of Apocalypse 1 (20 - 24)-FB
X-Men Red 12 (1 - 14)-FB
X-Men: Before the Fall - Heralds of Apocalypse 1
Immortal X-Men 11 (1 - 18)
Legion of X 7-10 [New Timeline. LOX 7-10 as published take place in the Sins of Sinister timeline. Then, post-reset, we pick up after the "real" version of events which are broadly similar in outline & outcome but different in details (Clive_Reston)]
X-Men: Before the Fall - Sons of X 1 (1 - 27)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 86-91
X-Men: Before the Fall - Sons of X 1 (28 - 30)
X-Men Red 11
Immortal X-Men 11 (19 - 20)
X-Men Red 12
Wolverine 27 (5:3 - 5:4)
Edge of Spider-Verse 1-5
Spider-Man 1-7
X-Men 2023A Annual 1
X-Men 15-17
X-Men 18 (1 - 18)
Wolverine 27 (7:2)-FB
Wolverine 27 (6 - 9)
X-Force 34 (1:2, 1:4)-FB
Timeless II (2023) 1 (6 - 40)
Amazing Spider-Man 14 (11 - 16)
Free Comic Book Day 2022: Spider-Man/Venom 1
Free Comic Book Day 2022: Spider-Man/Venom 1/2
Free Comic Book Day 2022: Spider-Man/Venom 1/3
All-Out Avengers 1-5
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/4 [Wiccan & Hulkling]
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/5 (1 - 9:2) [Black Cat & Gambit]
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/6 [Muzzle & Spider-Man]
Amazing Spider-Man 14 (17 - 23)
X-Force 34 (9:5)-FB
Wolverine 27 (10 - 20)
Wolverine 28
X-Force 34-38
Wolverine 29-31
Wolverine 32 (7 - 8:4)-FB
X-Force 39 (1:1 - 1:4) ~ Wolverine 32 (8:5 - 8:6)-FB
X-Force 39 (1:5 - 20)
X-Force 40-42
New Mutants 29-33
Love Unlimited: Karma In Love Infinity Comic 31-36
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/5 (9:3 - 10) [Black Cat & Spider-Man] [A week later. Prior to ASM 11]
Avengers Forever 10
Scarlet Witch 4 (3)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 14 (24 - 30)
Amazing Spider-Man 11-13
Spider-Man: Unforgiven 1 [Autumn]
Gold Goblin 1
Venom 13
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 1 (4 - 6)-FB
Dark Web: X-Men 2 (1)-FB
Dark Web 1 (1 - 12) [December 13]
Venom 14 (1 - 4)-FB
Dark Web 1 (13 - 18)
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 1 (1 - 3)
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 2 (1 - 2)-FB
Dark Web: X-Men 1 (1 - 2)
Dark Web 1 (19 - 22)
Dark Web: X-Men 1 (3 - 13)
Dark Web 1 (23 - 30)
Dark Web: X-Men 1 (14 - 16)
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 1 (7 - 17)
Amazing Spider-Man 15 (1 - 10)
Amazing Spider-Man 15 (11 - 12) ~ Dark Web: Ms Marvel 1 (18 - 19)
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 1 (20)
Amazing Spider-Man 15 (13 - 20)
Amazing Spider-Man 16
Dark Web: Ms Marvel 2 (3 - 20)
Venom 15 (11 - 15)-FB
Gold Goblin 2
Amazing Spider-Man 17 (1 - 6)
Venom 14 (5 - 20)
Venom 15 (1 - 10, 16 - 20)
Venom 16 (1 - 6)
Dark Web: X-Men 1 (17 - 20)
Dark Web: X-Men 2 (2 - 3)
Dark Web: X-Men 3 (1 - 3)
Amazing Spider-Man 17 (7 - 14)
Dark Web: X-Men 2 (4 - 20)
Dark Web: X-Men 3 (4 - 20)
Gold Goblin 3
Mary Jane & Black Cat 1-5
Amazing Spider-Man 17 (15 - 20)
Amazing Spider-Man 18
Dark Web: Finale (1 - 6)
Venom 16 (7 - 20)
Dark Web: Finale (7 - 26) [December 13]
Venom 17
Thor 27-28
X-Men: Unforgiven 1 [Days later; Logan still associated with Krakoa]
Dark X-Men 1/2 (1 - 6)
Bishop: War College 1-5
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/7 [Jumbo Carnation, Northstar, Viv Vision, America Chavez, Kate Bishop, Shatterstar]
Marvel's Voices: Pride III 1/8 [Gimmick & Bishop] ~ Dark X-Men 1/2 (7 - 10)
Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic 44-49
Strange Academy 13-17 [Winter Formal]
Strange Academy 18 (1)
Midnight Suns 1-5
Strange Academy 18 (2 - 20)
Strange 1-5
Strange Academy: Finals 1-5
Strange 6-10
Doctor Strange 1-10 [Dr Strange returns]
Thanos: Death Notes 1
Thor 34 (1)-FB
Thor 29-35
Captain America: Unforgiven 1 (1 - 27) [A week later; Tigra, Jack Russell, Man-Wolf, Man-Thing, Jubilee, Logan, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four][Winter Solstice]
Secret Invasion 1-4 [Maria Hill recreates SHIELD; Avengers, Black Widow, Dr Strange, Spider-Man appear; prior to Avengers Assemble for Maya & Brandy][Late Autumn]
Secret Invasion 5 (1 - 16)
Captain America: Unforgiven 1 (28 - 30) [Nighthawk, Namor, Iron Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Blade, Tigra, and teenage Starbrand (Beast is shown in cameo, but i’m putting that down to an art error)]
Wolverine 32-35 [“Days” later; Logan is done with Krakoa]
Mighty Marvel Holiday Special: Iceman's New Year's Resolution Infinity Comic 1 [New Year’s Eve]
Secret Invasion 5 (17 - 19) [Several days later]
Scarlet Witch 1 (1)
Deadpool 7 (1 - 2)-FB
Moon Knight 2022 Annual 1
Amazing Spider-Man 19-20 [Spidey & Black Cat’s weekend getaway (to the Catskills of course!)]
Scarlet Witch 4 (4 - 5)-FB
Blade: Vampire Nation 1
Avengers 61 (2 - 3)-FB
Avengers 57-58
Avengers 61 (4 - 15)-FB
Avengers 59
Avengers 61
*************
[The following can be read here for context]
Avengers 13
Avengers 7
Avengers 26
Avengers 1,000,000 BC 1
*************
Avengers 62
Avengers Forever 11
Avengers Assemble Alpha 1 (1 - 33)
Avengers 65 (17)-FB
Avengers Assemble Alpha 1 (34 - 40)
Avengers 63 ~ Avengers Forever 12
Avengers 64
Avengers Forever 13
Avengers 65
Avengers Forever 14 (1 - 18:2)
Avengers 66 (1 - 7)
Avengers Forever 14 (18:3 - 20)
Avengers 66 (8 - 20)
Avengers Forever 15
Avengers Assemble Omega 1 (1 - 49)
Avengers vol.8 1-FB [Black Panther in exile, returns to Avengers]
Avengers Assemble Omega 1 (50 - 60)
Avengers vol.8 1
Avengers vol.8 2 (1 - 19)
X-Men 18 (19 - 20)
Captain Marvel 43 (1)
Captain Marvel 47 (12 - 13)-FB
Captain Marvel 43 (2-16)
X-Men 19
Captain Marvel 43 (17 - 21)
Captain Marvel 44
X-Men 20 (1 - 11:3)
X-Men 21 (1)-FB
X-Men 20 (11:4 - 20)
X-Men 21 (2 - 20)
Captain Marvel 45-46
Captain Marvel 47 (1-19)
Captain Marvel 48 (1 - 8)
Captain Marvel 47 (20)
Captain Marvel 48 (9 - 20)
Captain Marvel 49
Captain Marvel 50 [Clean-shaven Matt Murdock & T'Challa]
Daredevil & Echo 1-4 [Ghost Rider appears]
Daredevil 3-4
Captain America 750/7 [Coldest day of the year]
Scarlet Witch 2/2
Punisher War Journal: Blitz 1
Punisher 1-3
Punisher War Journal: Brother 1 (1 - 3:1)
Punisher 4 (13 - 14)-FB
Punisher War Journal: Brother 1 (3:2 - 30)
Punisher 4-8
Punisher 9 (1 - 28)
I Am Iron Man 5 (4 - 13)-FB [Maria Hill's SHIELD & She-Hulk appear; three months prior to I Am Iron Man 5]
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 74 [Valentines Day]
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 75-79
Marvel's Voices: X-Men 1/3 [Solem, Kobak & Iceman on Arakko]
Marvel's Voices: X-Men 1/4 [Iceman & Storm on Arakko, then in Madripoor]
Love Unlimited: Gwenpool Infinity Comic 43-48
Love Unlimited Infinity Comic 49-54
Gold Goblin 4-5 [Weeks after Dark Web]
Deadly Neighborhood Spider-Man 1-5
Red Goblin 1-4
Venom 18 ~ Venom 19
Fantastic Four 11
Daredevil 1 (3)-FFWD [Daredevil now with full beard]
Daredevil 1 (20)-FFWD
Daredevil 5-10 [Captain America, Black Panther, Iron Man, Valkyrie, and Spider-Man appear]
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 92-99
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 100 [Five weeks before the Gala]
Punisher 9 (29 - 30) [Black Widow, Captain America, Moon Knight, Dr Strange, and Wolverine (Logan) appear]
Punisher 10-11 [Black Widow, Captain America, Moon Knight, Dr Strange, and Wolverine (Logan) appear]
Punisher 12 (1 - 9)
Punisher 12 (10 - 29)
I Am Iron Man 5 [Maria Hill's SHIELD & She-Hulk appear]
Fantastic Four 13 (1 - 2)-FB
Fantastic Four 12-13
Daredevil 11-13
Rogue & Gambit 2-5 [5 months after X-Men 16]
New Mutants: Lethal Legion 1-5
Wolverine 33/2
Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic 70/1
Invincible Iron Man 2 (16 - 17:1)-FB
Invincible Iron Man 1 (1 - 12)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 101 [Four weeks before the Gala]
Deadpool Vol.9 1-5
Punisher 12 (30 - 31)
Invincible Iron Man 1 (13 - 31)
Invincible Iron Man 2-5
Punisher 12 (30 - 31)
Amazing Spider-Man 25 (35)
Amazing Spider-Man 21 (1 - 5)-FFWD
Amazing Spider-Man 22 (1 - 2)-FFWD
Amazing Spider-Man 26 (2 - 7)
Amazing Spider-Man 26 (9 - 31)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 102 [Three weeks before the Gala]
The X-Cellent 1-5 [Dr Strange appears]
Fallen Friend 1 [Kamala's family and friends arrive for the khatm, joined by Logan, Red Dagger & Captain Marvel]
Fallen Friend 1/3 (1 - 8) [Tony Stark arrives as Iron Man, in damaged armor, joined by Dr Strange, and Steve Rogers; Viv Vision is there; Piledriver appears]
Fallen Friend 1/2 [The Champions have already arrived, along with Vision & Sam Wilson, presumably between stories 1 & 3; Dr Strange is already there; Viv Vision leaves]
Fallen Friend 1/3 (9 - 10) [Peter Parker arrives]
Fallen Friend (Online) Post-Issue Scene [Cyclops appears]
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 103 [Two weeks before the Gala]
Marvel’s Voices 2024 FCBD 1/3
Marvel's Voices: X-Men 1/5 [Jubilee & Lady Deathstrike]
Marvel's Voices Unlimited Infinity Comic 85-88
X-Men 22
X-Men Red 16/2
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 104 [One week before the Gala]
Scarlet Witch 1 (14)-FB
Scarlet Witch 1-5 [Should be after Fallen Friend for Viv Vision]
Scarlet Witch 2023 Annual 1 [Contest of Chaos Prelude]
Spider-Man 2023 Annual 1 (1 - 27)
Iron Man 2023 Annual 1
Fantastic Four 2023 Annual 1
Spider-Gwen 2023 Annual 1 (6)-FB
Moon Knight 2023 Annual 1
Moon Knight 2023 Annual 1/2
Spider-Gwen 2023 Annual 1
Venom 2023 Annual 1 [Prior to Deadpool 10 for Valentine]
Spider-Man 2023 Annual 1 (28 - 29)
Iron Man 2023 Annual 1/2
Fantastic Four 2023 Annual 1/2
Spider-Gwen 2023 Annual 1/2
Venom 2023 Annual 1/2
X-Men 2023 Annual 1
X-Men 2023 Annual 1/2
Avengers 2023 Annual 1 [Contest of Chaos Finale]
Invincible Iron Man 6-7
2023 Hellfire Gala


Still to be Added (some of which may take place after the 2023 Hellfire Gala):
Alligator Loki 1
Ant-Man 3-4
Avengers Beyond 1-5
Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain 1-5 [sometime after Knights of X]
Blade 1-4
Bloodline: Daughter of Blade 1-5
Carnage III 1-12
Carnage Reigns Alpha 1 [Carnage Reigns pt 1]
Miles Morales: Spider-Man 6 [Carnage Reigns pt 2]
Carnage 13 [Carnage Reigns pt 3]
Web of Carnage 1 [During Carnage Reigns]
Red Goblin 5 [Carnage Reigns pt 4][Feilong and Stark Sentinels]
Carnage 14 [Carnage Reigns pt 5]
Miles Morales: Spider-Man 7 [Carnage Reigns pt 6]
Carnage Reigns Omega 1 [Carnage Reigns Conclusion]
Cosmic Ghost Rider 1-5
Cult of Carnage: Misery 1-5
Deadpool: Badder Blood 1-5
Doctor Strange: Fall Sunrise 1-4
Fantastic Four 1-10
Fury 1
Ghost Rider 11-16
Guardians of the Galaxy 1-10
Guardians of the Galaxy 2023 Annual 1
Hallows Eve 1-5
Hellcat 1-5
Loki 1-4
Marvel Unleashed 1-4
Marvel’s Voices: Wakanda Forever 1
Miles Morales: Spider-Man 1-5
Miles Morales: Spider-Man 8-11
Monica Rambeau: Photon 1-5
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 1-5
Moon Knight 23-25
Moon Knight: City of the Dead 1-5
Murderworld: Avengers 1
Murderworld: Spider-Man 1
Murderworld: Wolverine 1
Murderworld: Moon Knight 1
Murderworld: Game Over 1
Night Thrasher 1-4
Riri Williams, The Invincible Ironheart 1-4
Silver Surfer: Ghost Light 1-5
Spider-Gwen: Shadow Clones 1-5
Spider-Man/Venom 2022 FCBD 1/3
Spider-Man/Venom 2023 FCBD 1/3 [Marvel Zero 1/6]
Thanos 1-4 [during the general Fall of X period (with Iron Man in his stealth armor)]
Tiger Division 1-5
Ultimate Invasion 1-4
Venom 20-25
Warlock: Rebirth 1-5 [Dr Strange appears]
Wasp 1-5
Women of Marvel 2023 1

I've made some minor changes to Wolverine 26-29 & X-Force 34-38, filtering Wolverine's kill missions for Beast among the intervening issues, and relegating the panel showing Wolverine in his cave in X-Force 35 (9:5) to a flashback. It's really a representational panel as Sage wonders what other secrets Beast is hiding, and works better as a flashback to him being in the cave, rather than disrupting the logical flow of these issues, as X-Force 34-38 must take place between Wolverine 28 & 29, when Wolverine's already in the Pit of Exile.

Wolverine 27-35 & X-Force 34-42 have been slightly resorted.

Scarlet Witch 1-5 has been added, and should be after Fallen Friend for Viv Vision.

I've also sorted Fallen Friend into three separate stories as each one has a different creative team. It breaks down as follows:

Fallen Friend 1 [Kamala's family and friends arrive for the khatm, joined by Logan, Red Dagger & Captain Marvel]
Fallen Friend 1/3 (1 - 8) [Tony Stark arrives as Iron Man, in damaged armor, joined by Dr Strange, and Steve Rogers; Viv Vision is there; Piledriver appears]
Fallen Friend 1/2 [The Champions have already arrived, along with Vision & Sam Wilson, presumably between stories 1 & 3; Dr Strange is already there; Viv Vision leaves]
Fallen Friend 1/3 (9 - 10) [Peter Parker arrives]
Fallen Friend (Online) Post-Issue Scene [Cyclops appears]

I've sorted the Contest of Chaos annuals, which take place in publication order, except for the back-up stories, which mostly fall just before the end. Iron Man is in his damaged Mark 70 armor in the Iron Man Annual, but he's in the Mark Nil armor in the Avengers Annual, which has to go before Invincible Iron Man 7, so he must taking it out for a test drive. Valentine Vuong must appear in the Venom Annual prior to Deadpool 10, so i'm moving Deadpool 6-10 to after the 2023 Gala.

Red Goblin 1-4 have been added, along with Venom 18-19. Normie is grounded in Red Goblin 1, and there's a gap of a few days between issues 3 & 4. In Red Goblin 4, Liz and Stanley are said to have gone away for a few days. Normie is still grounded in Venom 19, and Liz and Stanley are said to be away visiting Stanley's other grandparents. Venom 18 & 19 take place simultaneously, Venom 18 with Eddie Brock, Venom 19 with Dylan Brock, Norman Osborn and Normie.

Secret Invasion II 1-5 & I Am Iron Man 5 have been added. Secret Invasion takes place prior to the start-up of Maria Hill's SHIELD, and includes appearances by the Avengers, Black Widow, Doctor Strange, and Spider-Man, prior to Avengers Assemble for Maya, who's still Phoenix. Maria Hill's SHIELD & She-Hulk appear in I Am Iron Man 5, and in the flashback to three months ago.

Black Panther: Unconquered 1 has been added. T’Challa is clean shaven; Dr Strange & Reed Richards appear.

I've moved Avengers 1-2 up the list a little more, and added Black Panther 11-15.

Fantastic Four 12-13 were added.

Thanos: Death Notes 1 & Thor 29-35 have been added.

Updates added, including Venom 17 & Thor 27-28 placed after Dark Web: Finale.

Spider-Man: Unforgiven, X-Men: Unforgiven & Captain America: Unforgiven placed prior to Avengers 57. Avengers 57-62 sorted.

Blade: Vampire Nation added during this period.

Captain America 750/7, the coldest day of the year, which for New York was apparently February 4 in 2023.

Gold Goblin and Deadly Neighborhood Spider-Man 1-5 placed prior to Red Goblin 1-4.

Avengers Assemble has been sorted. Avengers 63 & Avengers Forever 12 take place at the same time, otherwise it's pretty linear.

Daredevil & Echo 1-4 takes place after the end of Avengers Assemble, since Maya is no longer a host for the Phoenix. Daredevil is clean-shaven and has heard that Maya's back from her time with the Avengers, so it looks like this goes after the party in CM 50, where Daredevil was also clean-shaven, and would have learned about Maya’s return from Carol.

Thanos: Death Notes 1 & Thor 29-35 have been moved back to an earlier position due to Odin no longer inhabiting Mjolnir in other titles.

Black Panther Volume 8 1-15 is a can of worms, with numerous irreconcilable chronological problems. As written, it takes place very shortly after the Death of Dr Strange, but Namor is still King of Atlantis and appears with a full Atlantean battle fleet, and Panther's resignation from the Avengers for the start of this run is shown in A7 55, by which time Namor had already been abandoned by the Atlanteans and was already in Avengers custody.

Steve Rogers is portrayed completely out of character. Steve's angry with T'Challa for being absent during the Death of Dr Strange, but not only was he present, he was leading the Avengers as they dealt with the extra-dimensional incursions.

Dr Strange is specifically said to be dead, and Clea is Sorcerer Supreme.

Black Panther ends up exiled from Wakanda and expelled from the Avengers. Captain Marvel brings T'Challa back into the Avengers in A8 1-FB, not having seen him since his expulsion. Meanwhile, Black Panther continues to be seen both in Wakanda and with the Avengers in numerous other titles up to and including Judgment Day and Secret Invasion, by which time Dr Strange has returned.

From the standpoint of the rest of the Marvel Universe, the only place this can happen is between Secret Invasion and A8 1-FB.

The only explanation i can come up with is that As Written, BP8 1-15 takes place in an alternate Ridleyverse, where it takes place shortly after the Death of Dr Strange. Similar events also unfolded in E-616, but not exactly as shown on the pages. In the Ridleyverse, the Black Panther was absent during the Death of Dr Strange. Since Namor is still King of Atlantis, he would also presumably have been absent, since he would have been unlikely to be battling alongside the Avengers at that point. In this universe, Captain America acts in a manner which is out of character compared to his E-616 counterpart. After being exiled from Wakanda and expelled from the Avengers, Black Panther has no contact with Captain Marvel or presumably the other Avengers until she offers to renew his membership in A8 1-FB

In the E-616 version of events, the Black Panther was not only with the Avengers during the Death of Dr Strange, but lead the team, co-ordinating their actions as they battled the extra-dimensional incursions. Panther continued to work with the Avengers as Chairman up until A7 55, just prior to Judgment Day, and continued to be seen in Wakanda and with the Avengers during Judgment Day and up until Secret Invasion, by which time Dr Strange had returned. This requires the A8 1-FB to dovetail with the end of Avengers Assemble Omega, where he's once again seen back with the Avengers.

OK, the first part of the series up to #8, doesn't present too many problems, there are a few interruptions and relatively few problems in relation to the other series, the closer you get to the finale the more problems actually start. Let's try to see what the most marked continuity references are:
#1: Doctor Strange alive, T'Challa in action with Captain America and Thor
#3 T'Challa arrives on Mars (Arakko), meets Storm, Rogue, Gambit and Gentle
#6 Storm comes to T'Challa's rescue in Wakanda (wearing the costume he wears from X-Men Red #1 onwards)
#8 Storm abandons T'Challa.
#9 Captain America tells that T'Challa was not present when Strange was killed. The events surrounding Strange's death take place over a period of time. T'Challa is not part of the group that shows up at the Sanctum Sanctorum upon learning the news of Stephen's death in Death of Doctor Strange #2, we find him present in the reunion after the autopsy in Death of Doctor Strange #3 and in Death of Doctor Strange: Avengers. Steve was probably referring to the fact that he had not been present at the time of the murder, but then joined the group in the following days.
#11 T'Challa is taken off the front line by Captain America while the Avengers (without She-Hulk and Iron Man, just Captain America, Captain Marvel and Thor) fight the terrorists.
#13 T'Challa goes against the Avengers, and is helped by Namor leading an Atlantean regiment.
#14 Captain America calls Namor ‘an Avenger’.

Now, if we assume that She-Hulk may have talked to Captain America about offering his place in the Avengers to Namor before the scene seen in Avengers #50, we could fit this whole cycle (9-15) during Avengers #50, before the scene where we see Namor completely abandoned by all the Atlanteans (some forces may have remained loyal to him a little longer). Perhaps the alliance with the Wakandan enemies may have been one more reason for the Atlanteans to further lose faith in him. We can insert a break then in Black Panther #15, after Jhai's death and before T'Challa's exile in which to insert T'Challa's other appearances.
In Avengers #51-#54 he does not appear in the field, only at Avengers Mountain where he responds to the attack of the Multiversal Masters of Evil while meeting with Namor and Valkyrie. In Avengers #55 news of his resignation circulates to the press, and he only appears to direct Nighthawk to join the Avengers as he prepares for exile.

All of this then (Black Panther #9-15, except for the last scenes of #15) could take place before Judgment Day, between the pages of Avengers #50. We should turn a blind eye to T'Challa's presence during Judgment Day and Secret Invasion, but these are such reunions of heroes that Carol may not have considered them when she offers him to return to the Avengers.

Can it work?

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:20 pm The only explanation i can come up with is that As Written, BP8 1-15 takes place in an alternate Ridleyverse, where it takes place shortly after the Death of Dr Strange.

A very unusual solution. I'd rather not. However you have a similar situation in the Sins of Sinister arc. Given T'Challa meets Storm/X-Men we could figure his timeline is affected by the X-Men shenanigans. But that would merely be acceptable if somehow you could place the Ridleyverse chronologically at the same time as those X-Men issues, i.e. before Dark Web. The Ridleyverse would simply be the Sinisterverse. I don't see many Avengers issues in this period that would derail the idea so is it possible?

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amNow, if we assume that She-Hulk may have talked to Captain America about offering his place in the Avengers to Namor before the scene seen in Avengers #50, we could fit this whole cycle (9-15) during Avengers #50, before the scene where we see Namor completely abandoned by all the Atlanteans (some forces may have remained loyal to him a little longer). Perhaps the alliance with the Wakandan enemies may have been one more reason for the Atlanteans to further lose faith in him. We can insert a break then in Black Panther #15, after Jhai's death and before T'Challa's exile in which to insert T'Challa's other appearances.

By cutting and slicing, one can often manage to solve reputedly impossible puzzles. I find Midnighter's ideas of breaks in BP 15 and in A 50 more enticing and I hope they will hold up to scrutiny.

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 am #14 Captain America calls Namor ‘an Avenger’.

As a note Cap calling Namor an Avenger in BP 14 could be pretty much like the times he would call him "an Invader" or call Russians "Allies," a fraternal and inclusive declaration. Oups! I didn't notice at first that Cap says they have to work together on Avengers in issue 15. That's what I get for butting in casually! Keep up the good work!

StrayLamb, I'm assuming I'm missing something or have forgotten something: why do you have the Cable/Orbis Stellaris parts of X-Men Red 8-10 happening entirely (but immediately) before Vulcan's resurrection and the parts of the story with him, Storm and Brand?

(Also, Immortal X-Men 8 is entirely set in 1943 and 1895, so probably shouldn't be in this sequence!)

Leoparis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:52 pm

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:20 pm The only explanation i can come up with is that As Written, BP8 1-15 takes place in an alternate Ridleyverse, where it takes place shortly after the Death of Dr Strange.

A very unusual solution. I'd rather not. However you have a similar situation in the Sins of Sinister arc. Given T'Challa meets Storm/X-Men we could figure his timeline is affected by the X-Men shenanigans. But that would merely be acceptable if somehow you could place the Ridleyverse chronologically at the same time as those X-Men issues, i.e. before Dark Web. The Ridleyverse would simply be the Sinisterverse. I don't see many Avengers issues in this period that would derail the idea so is it possible?

That's exactly where i was going with that, hence the language used in order to resonate with that idea. However, i then realized i needed to make sure Dr Strange could appear prior to Dark Web. I still haven't had a chance to go thru all of those issues to see if Strange is mentioned anywhere as being either dead or alive. Does anyone happen to know?

Leoparis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:52 pm

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amNow, if we assume that She-Hulk may have talked to Captain America about offering his place in the Avengers to Namor before the scene seen in Avengers #50, we could fit this whole cycle (9-15) during Avengers #50, before the scene where we see Namor completely abandoned by all the Atlanteans (some forces may have remained loyal to him a little longer). Perhaps the alliance with the Wakandan enemies may have been one more reason for the Atlanteans to further lose faith in him. We can insert a break then in Black Panther #15, after Jhai's death and before T'Challa's exile in which to insert T'Challa's other appearances.

By cutting and slicing, one can often manage to solve reputedly impossible puzzles. I find Midnighter's ideas of breaks in BP 15 and in A 50 more enticing and I hope they will hold up to scrutiny.

I also prefer that solution, if it's possible. You've seen me do it on numerous occasions. I'm not sure it solves the problems in this circumstance. We really have two options here.

1) Take the events as shown on the pages of BP8 1-15 as gospel, try to work it in as best as possible, and ignore what's going on with the Panther in the rest of the greater Marvel Universe, or..
2) Prioritize the Panther's role in the greater Marvel Universe, finding the best overall position for BP8 1-15 within those parameters, and ignoring some of the details shown on the pages. That's the option that i chose. Midnighter is basically advocating for the first option..

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amThe events surrounding Strange's death take place over a period of time. T'Challa is not part of the group that shows up at the Sanctum Sanctorum upon learning the news of Stephen's death in Death of Doctor Strange #2, we find him present in the reunion after the autopsy in Death of Doctor Strange #3 and in Death of Doctor Strange: Avengers. Steve was probably referring to the fact that he had not been present at the time of the murder, but then joined the group in the following days.

It's doubtful that more than hours, or a day at the most, have passed since the Doctor's demise and Panther's presence, and we don't knopw how long he has been present prior to that. Panther has always had duties away from the Avengers, as Steve is well aware, and in order for him to appear immediately upon the Avengers hearing of Stephen's death, he would either have to be in the vicinity at that moment, or precognizant. It's difficult for me to believe that Steve would be so incensed at Panther for not appearing immediately.

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amIn Avengers #51-#54 he does not appear in the field, only at Avengers Mountain where he responds to the attack of the Multiversal Masters of Evil while meeting with Namor and Valkyrie. In Avengers #55 news of his resignation circulates to the press, and he only appears to direct Nighthawk to join the Avengers as he prepares for exile.

All of this then (Black Panther #9-15, except for the last scenes of #15) could take place before Judgment Day, between the pages of Avengers #50.

Starbrand is a little girl in Avengers 50, and fighting alongside the Avengers as a teenager in Death of Dr Strange, so Avengers 52-54, where Brandy ages up, takes place prior to Death of Dr Strange. BP8 9-15 states that Stephen is dead, and Clea is Sorcerer Supreme.

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amWe should turn a blind eye to T'Challa's presence during Judgment Day and Secret Invasion, but these are such reunions of heroes that Carol may not have considered them when she offers him to return to the Avengers.

That's where we differ in prioritizing the events. After the Death of Dr Strange, Black Panther appears with the Avengers in..
Moon Knight 9 [Panther is on the Avengers]
Thor 24 [Panther at Thor’s funeral with Avengers]
Thor 31/2 [Panther & Thor at Avengers Mountain]
Captain America: Symbol of Truth 4-5 [Panther & Sam]
Eternals 11 [Panther with Avengers]
X-Men Red 4 [Panther in Intergalactic Wakanda, transitioning from his duties as ruler]
Fortnite X Marvel: Zero War 1 [Panther with Avengers]
AXE: Judgment Day 2 & 4 [Panther with Avengers & in Wakanda]
Secret Invasion 1, 2 & 5 [Panther with Avengers & in Wakanda; Strange has returned]

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 am(some forces may have remained loyal to [Namor] a little longer)

That's an idea i can work with, and will help explain Namor's role, although in the Avengers he continually denies being the King of Atlantis. In fact, it's staggering that even Namor can be so arrogant over T'Challa losing his crown and people, when Namor's already lost his own.

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amWe can insert a break then in Black Panther #15, after Jhai's death and before T'Challa's exile in which to insert T'Challa's other appearances.

I'm not really seeing any benefit in placing a break in BP8 15 for other appearances. That would require Namor and his navy to return to Wakanda for Panther to officially begin his exile (even though he was theoretically already in exile by Wakanda 1).

Midnighter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:57 amCan it work?

Well, i suppose that all things considered (except for T'Challa's beard!) we can just continue BP8 5-15 after issue 4, and prior to Judgment Day if we accept that Namor's bipolar enough to swing from claiming to be King of Atlantis to claiming not to be King, depending on his mood, and accepting that he still has access to certain loyal factions, that Steve Rogers has been harboring some sort of a grudge over Panther, and that Carol may not be considering such a reunion as that when she says she hasn't seen him since the Killswitch protocols in A9 1. That said, Secret Invasion hardly seems to qualify as such a world-shaking event, and she would have to have advanced dementia not to remember working with Panther at that time, but something's got to give somewhere.

Any other suggestions? Are we all happy with that?

Clive_Reston wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:25 pm StrayLamb, I'm assuming I'm missing something or have forgotten something: why do you have the Cable/Orbis Stellaris parts of X-Men Red 8-10 happening entirely (but immediately) before Vulcan's resurrection and the parts of the story with him, Storm and Brand?

Yeah, that's probably not necessary.

Clive_Reston wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:25 pm(Also, Immortal X-Men 8 is entirely set in 1943 and 1895, so probably shouldn't be in this sequence!)

Well, it seems that Mystique's narrating it from the present, and it adds details to what's going on with Sinister. That's why i've placed it in this list.

The Dr. Strange in BP8 1 only appears in the prologue. So I see two possibilities:
1. That prologue appeared some time earlier.
2. That Dr. Strange is actually the time-displaced Strange investigating his own death. (The costume and dialogue don't really match that hypothesis.)

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 8:19 pm It's doubtful that more than hours, or a day at the most, have passed since the Doctor's demise and Panther's presence, and we don't know how long he has been present prior to that. Panther has always had duties away from the Avengers, as Steve is well aware, and in order for him to appear immediately upon the Avengers hearing of Stephen's death, he would either have to be in the vicinity at that moment, or precognizant. It's difficult for me to believe that Steve would be so incensed at Panther for not appearing immediately.

You get incensed over a series of actions. Possibly there were earlier things that Steve privately objected to (the wakandization of the Avengers? Hostile Wakanda agents on US territory?) and Strange's death was only the last straw rather than the main gripe? I have not fully read the BP series so ignore my comment if irrelevant.

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 8:19 pm That's an idea I can work with, and will help explain Namor's role, although in the Avengers he continually denies being the King of Atlantis. In fact, it's staggering that even Namor can be so arrogant over T'Challa losing his crown and people, when Namor's already lost his own.

In the current Namor series they state that he never completed the ritual to be king, i.e. while monarch of Atlantis his rightful title was still Prince. He could refer to that when denying to be King.

Namor has been known for his mood swings. John Byrne explained it with a chemical imbalance, Brennert explained it with PTSD.

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 8:22 pm Well, it seems that Mystique's narrating it from the present, and it adds details to what's going on with Sinister. That's why i've placed it in this list.

That makes a lot of sense! Thank you!