Some Stories Missing from MCP

The ongoing effort to juggle all the books that need to be entered into the Project

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Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:53 pm

Apologies if it's not kosher for a newbie to start a long list like this. And since I'm new, I'm hoping that I haven't just missed these stories. :oops:

Stories that are clearly 616 (or involve characters who interact with 616 characters and should have an MCP entry), since they've been referenced in official material (e.g., other 616 stories, handbooks, indices):

The Adventures of the X-Men #12 (for Galactus, Xavier)
Angela #1-3 (for Angela, obviously)
Angela/Glory: Rage of Angels #1 (for Angela)
Angela Special (for Angela)
Aria Angela #1-2 (for Angela)
The Avengers and the Thunderbolts (novel included in indices)
Coyote (tpb published by Image; prints Scorpio Rose #3 for first time; Lorelei confirmed to be Mantis)
Curse of the Spawn #9-11, 15 (for Angela)
Doctor Strangefate #1 (for Access)
Doctor Who Magazine #265 (for Merlin)
Doctor Who Monthly #51b, 57b, 60, 62-63, 65-67 (for Special Executive and Merlin)
Doctor Zero #5 (for Terror/Shreck, who have been confirmed to be the same character)
Dragon's Claws #6b (the 1-page Godilux story with Death's Head)
The Fantastic Four in the House of Horrors (referenced in FF Encyclopedia)
Glory #10 (for Angela)
Glory/Angela: Angels in Hell #1 (for Angela)
Green Lantern vol. 3 #87 (for Access)
Justice League of America #142 (Willow confirmed to be Mantis)
Maximage #4 (for Angela)
Mayhem in Manhattan (events of the novel referenced in an issue of Amazing Spider-Man)
Newman #1 (for Angela)
The Punisher Meets Archie #1 (I realize this is listed in the FAQ as noncanon, but the handbook entry for Millie includes these events as canonical)
Scorpio Rose #2 (Lorelei confirmed to be Mantis)
A Shadowline Saga: Critical Mass #2b, 3d, 5b (for Terror/Shreck)
Spawn #9, 62, 89, 96-100 (Angela)
Spider-Boy Team-Up #1 (for Spider-Man)
Spider-Man Zaps Mr. Zodiac (referenced in one of the handbooks)
St. George #2, 4, 6-7 (for Terror/Shreck)
Star Trek: The Next Generation/X-Men: Planet X (novel sequel to "2nd Contact," which is on the checklist)
Team Youngblood #21 (for Angela)
Witchblade #11 (for Mephisto)
X-Men and Spider-Man: Time's Arrow Trilogy (included in the indices)
X-Men Legends short story titled "Diary of a False Man" (referenced in X-Men index)
Youngblood vol. 2 #6 (for Angela)

I should also point out that many of the DC/Marvel crossovers featuring Access aren't in his chronology

Stories not clearly referenced in anything official (to my knowledge), but I don't see any good reason to not include them:

Dark Shadows #34 (for Silver Dagger, caterpillar character from Dr. Strange)
Hulk/Pitt
Iron Man/X-O Manowar: In Heavy Metal #1
Marvel Heroes #33 (Panini; for Death's Head)
Prophet/Cable #1-2
Shi/Cyblade: The Battle for Independents (for Spider-Man)
Sovereign Seven #2-3 (for Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, Lockheed)
Sting of the Green Hornet #2 (for Captain America)
Wild Angels (Marvel Italia)
X-O Manowar/Iron Man: In Heavy Metal #1

Stories not clearly referenced in anything official (to my knowledge), and might fit into 616 continuity, but I can't say for sure because I've never read them:

Capitão Mistério Apresenta (I'm not entirely sure this is the correct title) #9-11 (Brazilian original Frankenstein stories)
Das Monster von Frankenstein #26 (German original Frankenstein story)
Edições Gep #1-8, 13-14 (Brazilian original X-Men stories)
El Sargento Furia Y Sus Comandos #86, 107, 109, 111-115, 117, 119, 121, 123-130, 136-142, 144-149, 153-157, 161-183, 186, 188-192, 194-195, 197-201, 204-213, 217-218, 220-224, 226-234, 236-239, 241-251, 253-258, 260-263, 265-268, 270, 272-274, 276-279, 281-283, 285-295, 298, 300-307, 310, 316, 320, 324, 327-329 (Mexican original Sgt. Fury stories); possibly also original stories in the following issues I couldn't find info on: 118, 202, 269, 271, 275, 280, 284, 296-297, 308-309, 311-315, 317-319, 321-323, 325-326
El Sorprendente Hombre Araña #123-125, 128-129, 135-139, 145-159, 163-173, 176-185 (Mexican original Spider-Man stories)
Superhelden Agenda '89-'90 (Dutch original Spider-Man story)

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:47 pm

Nice list vanhornluke. Some of these have been argued for inclusion before. Sometimes rarities make it sometimes they don't, but it's always nice to have lists for the several of us completists out there. Thanks for coming on board and sharing your list.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:55 pm

I just realized I forgot to include the 25th issue of Marvel UK's Secret Wars series, which included an original Spider-Man story.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by zuckyd1 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:56 pm

In addition to the items vanhornluke mentioned, there are a couple of other books on the FAQ's Non-Canon List whose status I'd question.

Beavis & Butthead: While the series as a whole is obviously non-canon, in issue #14 the pair read an otherwise-unpublished Spider-Man 2099 comic which is referenced in the Handbook bibliography: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibli ... 99_A.D..29
Brute Force: Characters appear in Deadpool Bi-Annual #1.
Destroyer: One would think this adaptation of a long-running novel series would be non-616; however, the Ghita is mentioned in the Mystic Arcana handbook’s unabridged list of tomes: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/tome ... wledge.htm
Hellraiser, Book of the Damned, etc.: These would seem to be no-brainers; however, Philip Lemarchand and the Lament Configuration are mentioned in Marvel Comics Presents #55 and the Mystic Arcana handbook.
Illuminator: Includes a reference to recent X-Men events http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/illuminatorprent.htm
Kathy: She crossed over with Millie the Model in Life with Millie #14 and Kathy #26.
Meteor Man: Spider-Man and Night Thrasher appeared in his series.
Misty: She is mentioned in Millie the Model’s handbook entry and later gets her own entry.
Mort the Dead Teenager: He received a handbook entry, although I think that might be his only link.
Wolverine: Global Jeopardy: This has actually already been added to the Chronology listings and so should be removed from the Non-Canon List.

I'm particularly interested in why Professor Xavier and the X-Men has been deemed non-canon. There’s a discussion about that series here: http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forums/v ... 5&start=20

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by JephYork » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:48 am

I'm particularly interested in why Professor Xavier and the X-Men has been deemed non-canon.
Well, 17 of the 18 issues are just modern retellings of old stories. And the one issue that IS a new story (#4) conflicts with other accounts of how the Brotherhood formed. Presumably #4 is in the same "old stories retold with modern twists" universe as the other 17 issues.

-Jeph!

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Jason Doty » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:02 pm

It has been many of years since we argued Professor X and the X-Men, but if I recall correctly. It was not included because it showed the same scenes with different dialog along with the new material and at least one issue was out of order.

I also just recently was able to get Edições Gep #1-8, 13-14 (Brazilian original X-Men stories), these are pretty fun.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by zuckyd1 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Could you point me toward the previous discussion? I wasn't able to find it.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Somebody » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:29 pm

It's no longer on the board-proper, unfortunately, you'll have to go to the forum archives (plain text files, ZIPped, containing threads deleted from the board to save database space in days of yore).

There's some discussion in:
*Thread 69 of Archive 47 ("Message threads ending in May, 2004.")
*Thread 11 of Archive 57 ("... March, 2005")

Also, limited mentions in Archive 50, and Russ (then ADMINISTRATOR) made this declaration in Archive 54:
Russ Chappell, 15 Dec 2004 11:06 pm wrote:Posted: 15 Dec 2004 11:06 pm
By ADMINISTRATOR

Actually, I've been meaning to remove that. I added PXX 4 many years ago, when it first came out. It was the only issue I had, and at the time, I had no knowledge of the contents of the other issues.

Stories aren't "non-canon," merely by virtue of being retellings. Retellings aren't listed in the chronologies, not because they're not canon, but because they're retellings. Stories that include new scenes should be listed here, as we strive to do with Classic X-Men.

That's a retelling. Then there's a "retooling," which changes (or modernizes) some of the events that we've already seen in the original stories, without explanation. That would be Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man: Chapter One, and Marvel Age: Spider-Man, to name three. (And, yes, I know, the three examples are wildly different, but they're still three valid examples.)

If other issues of Professor X and the X-Men show the same events as the classic stories, without change or addition, then PXX 4 would be the only story listed here. If other issues show the same events, without change but with additions, we should list PXX 4, and strive to identify the new scenes in other issues. If other issues change previous events, so as to be irreconcilable with the originals, then PXX 4 should be removed.
Now, to be fair, the Jeff Parker X-Men First Class series currently have only one issue listed, due to that issue being heavily referenced in X-Men vs. Agents of Atlas, in spite of the OHOTMU's last major run thus ceasing to reference (other) issues partway through.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by zuckyd1 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:07 pm

Thanks. That was very helpful.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by zuckyd1 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:26 pm

vanhornluke wrote:Stories not clearly referenced in anything official (to my knowledge), but I don't see any good reason to not include them:

Dark Shadows #34 (for Silver Dagger, caterpillar character from Dr. Strange)
Hulk/Pitt
Iron Man/X-O Manowar: In Heavy Metal #1
Marvel Heroes #33 (Panini; for Death's Head)
Prophet/Cable #1-2
Shi/Cyblade: The Battle for Independents (for Spider-Man)
Sovereign Seven #2-3 (for Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, Lockheed)
Sting of the Green Hornet #2 (for Captain America)
Wild Angels (Marvel Italia)
X-O Manowar/Iron Man: In Heavy Metal #1

Stories not clearly referenced in anything official (to my knowledge), and might fit into 616 continuity, but I can't say for sure because I've never read them:

Superhelden Agenda '89-'90 (Dutch original Spider-Man story)
Hulk/Pitt is mentioned in Hulk's online handbook bibliography: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibli ... _2007#Hulk
Wild Angels is mentioned in Dark Angel's handbook profile.
Superhelden Agenda '89-'90 is mentioned in the Marvel Atlas' entry for Belgium and the handbook's entry for Netherlands.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Sun May 29, 2016 8:17 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:In addition to the items vanhornluke mentioned, there are a couple of other books on the FAQ's Non-Canon List whose status I'd question.

Beavis & Butthead: While the series as a whole is obviously non-canon, in issue #14 the pair read an otherwise-unpublished Spider-Man 2099 comic which is referenced in the Handbook bibliography: http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Bibli ... 99_A.D..29
Brute Force: Characters appear in Deadpool Bi-Annual #1.
Destroyer: One would think this adaptation of a long-running novel series would be non-616; however, the Ghita is mentioned in the Mystic Arcana handbook’s unabridged list of tomes: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/tome ... wledge.htm
Hellraiser, Book of the Damned, etc.: These would seem to be no-brainers; however, Philip Lemarchand and the Lament Configuration are mentioned in Marvel Comics Presents #55 and the Mystic Arcana handbook.
Illuminator: Includes a reference to recent X-Men events http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/illuminatorprent.htm
Kathy: She crossed over with Millie the Model in Life with Millie #14 and Kathy #26.
Meteor Man: Spider-Man and Night Thrasher appeared in his series.
Misty: She is mentioned in Millie the Model’s handbook entry and later gets her own entry.
Mort the Dead Teenager: He received a handbook entry, although I think that might be his only link.
Wolverine: Global Jeopardy: This has actually already been added to the Chronology listings and so should be removed from the Non-Canon List
Another title which is mistakenly on the Non-Canon list is Semper Fi. The handbook entry for World War I references the Whittier family member in Semper Fi who fought in that war.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:59 pm

Here are a few more 616 stories missing from MCP published after FF #1, all of which are referenced in official sources (e.g., later 616 comics, handbooks, indices) or feature characters who appear in other such official sources:

Amazing Adventure #1f
Amazing High Adventure #1a, 2b, 3b, 5b
The Amazing Spider-Man: Invasion of the Dragon-Men
Bizarre Adventures #25b
Captain America Meets the Asthma Monster
Captain America: The Red Skull Strikes from Space!
Chamber of Chills #2a, #7b
Epic Illustrated #10g, 11g, 12d, 22a, 23a
Francis, Brother of the Universe #1
Giant-Size Chillers vol. 2 #1b
The Incredible Hulk and the Magic Snake (ad comic)
Journey into Mystery #90c, 96c, vol. 2 #1, #3a, #4a, #4c, #5a
The Life of Pope John Paul II #1
Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 16, 28, 30, 34, 36
Marvel Comics Super Special #4
Marvel Preview #5, 6, 9
Marvel Spotlight #25
Marvel Storybook Annual (all the stories)
Misty #1-6
Monsters on the Prowl #9b
Obnoxio the Clown #1
Planet Terry #1-12
Royal Roy #1-6
Savage Tales vol. 1 #1d
Spider-Man and the Incredible Hulk (Denver Post)
Spider-Man and the Incredible Hulk (Foley's)
Strange Tales #104d, 108d
Supernatural Thrillers #1, 4, 6
Tales to Astonish #31c, 31e, 32d, 32e, 33d, 34a
Top Dog #1-14
Wally the Wizard #1-12
Worlds Unknown #7, 8

Hostess Ads that have been referenced:

Blown About
Break the Bank
Captain America and the Red Skull
Captain America and the Sore Sir's Apprentices
Captain America vs. the Aliens
Captain Marvel! And the Energy Crisis
City Crisis
Cut on the Dotted Line
The Deserted City!
The Ding-a-Ling Family
A Friendly Gesture
Friends!
The Green Frog
A Hot Time in the Old Town
Hotshot on the Block
The Hulk vs. the Phoomie Goonies
The Human Torch Saves the Valley!
The Icemaster Cometh
The Incredible Hulk and the Twins of Evil
The Incredible Hulk and the Ultimate Weapon!
The Incredible Hulk Changes His Mind!
The Incredible Hulk in Forget-Me-Net
The Incredible Hulk vs. the Roller Disco Devils!
An Invading Army
Legal Eagle
A Passion for Gold
The Power of Gold!
Spider-Man and the Cupcake Caper
Spider-Man and the Demolition Derby
The Spider-Man and the Fly!
Spider-Man Meets June Jitsui!
Spider-Man Meets the Home Wrecker
Spider-Man "Puts Himself in the Picture"
Spider-Man vs. the Chairman!
Spider-Man vs. the Human Computer!
Thor Meets a Glutton for Gold
Thor Meets the Ricochet Monster
The Trap!
When It Rains It Pours!
Will Power!

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:03 pm

The Spider-verse crossover reveals that all of the Hostess ads take place in their own universe (Earth-51914). At some point these will be added.

Of course, this means the random Hostess villains that appeared in Thunderbolts are the 616 versions of the 51914 versions.
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:14 pm

There are Hostess villains that appeared in Fin Fang Four Return! as well, so there are quite a few 616 Hostess characters. The handbooks also explicitly refer to a number of the Hostess ads as 616 stories. So why think that all the Hostess ads take place on Earth-51914? Doesn't the evidence (especially from the handbooks) indicate that a lot of the Hostess ads take place on 616? Maybe similar stories also occurred on 51914, but the Spider-Verse story doesn't sound like it's inconsistent with what the handbooks have already established.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:21 am

All of those handbook entries were written before the Spider-verse crossover was published, of course. New evidence always shines new light on things. :)

The Index was a little more clear on the Hostess matter than the handbooks (because we had the ability to be). Yes, the Index provided chronologies for some of the Hostess ads, but with the disclaimer that only if they're canon to Earth-616, that's where they (or similar events) would go. The Index was also written before Spider-verse came out.

Also, keep in mind that while Tom Brevoort says the MARVEL: THE END mini is non-canon, the handbooks refer to it anyway. They're not actually referring to that mini, but rather largely similar events to what was seen in that mini (and of course, there's some reality out there where the events of MARVEL: THE END actually happened as shown in that mini; it's Earth-4321). Now that we have Spider-verse showing a universe where the Hostess ads happened as shown, we can assume the same thing as with The End mini; the handbooks are referring to largely similar events shown in the Hostess ads, if not the actual events (especially in light of Spider-verse).

Thanks to Spider-verse, we have a reality where Spider-Man and the other heroes actually defeated villains with Twinkies. Similar events happened on Earth-616, just without the sponge cake business. Of course, that's just my interpretation.
-Daron Jensen

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