Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"
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Was the proper chronology for Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn ever determined with regards to their children? Around which issues during the 1960s-1970s did they have their affair, resulting in Gwen becoming pregnant? When was she leave for Europe for four months? When did she have the twins, and when did she return?
Lets see some of the original storylines involving Gwen:wolframbane wrote:When was she leave for Europe for four months? When did she have the twins, and when did she return?
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #93 (February, 1971), Gwen is still grieving over the death of her father when invited by her uncle Arthur Stacy to stay with him in London. She goes ask Peter Parker if he wants her to stay but her hatred for Spider-Man makes him reluctant to give an answer. Figuring his answer is "no", Gwen leaves his apartment. Spidey then gets pursued by the Prowler/Hobbie Brown trying to bring him in for his involvement in the death of George Stacy. When he sees Mindy, Prowler's girlfriend, proclaim "she will stick by him no matter what", Spidey decides to reveal his identity to Gwen and keep the woman he loves. Instead he finds an empty apartment. He rushes to the airport, just in time to see the flight for London taking off.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #95 (April, 1971), Peter confides to Joseph Robertson over the loss of Gwen troubling him. Robbie manages to assign Peter with the next Daily Bugle photographic mission covering London. However Spidey gets involved with fighting British domestic terrorism. Realizing too late that when Gwen learns of both Peter and Spidey "coincidentally" being in London, she will figure his identity on her own. He leaves London without seeing Gwen. Meanwhile Gwen broods over not being visited by Peter.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #98 (July, 1971), Gwen begins to realize leaving Peter behind was a mistake on her part. She decides to return to New York and "hopefully patch things up". Meanwhile in New York Spidey still deals with the effects of Harry Osborn overdosing on drugs and Norman Osborn trying to escape the pain by retreating to his Green Goblin identity. After forcing Norman to see the truth and destroying the Goblin costume, Peter returns home to find Gwen waiting for him. Her stay in Europe has apparently ended.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #99 (August, 1971), Spidey decides he needs to get his personal life in order if he is to keep Gwen. He goes to the Daily Bugle and demands to be hired on a part-time basis, ending his freelance days. He then does his best to get photos "of a hostage situation at a nearby prison". He plans to use his first salary to take Gwen out to dinner. Finding out too late that as a bugle employee, "payday isn't until Friday". Peter confides to Gwen about not having enough money for a date. She dismisses his concerns and offers to cook supper "for a nice romantic night indoors".
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #101 (October, 1971), Gwen invites Peter to a movie date, only to hear him moaning. She gets the point and hangs up. Meanwhile Spidey deals with the effects of his latest effort in trying to remove his powers. Instead he has gained four hands and is terrified of being seen by Gwen or May like this. He also rejects an assignment by the Bugle, angering J. Jonah Jameson and causing concern to Robbie. Spidey goes on to have his first fight with Dr. Morbius.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #102 (November, 1971), Spidey wakes up from a knockout punch to find himself having six hands and being caught up in a fight between Morbius and the Lizard. Meanwhile Gwen worries about what has happened to Peter. She can't locate him and May hasn't seen him for a while either. Spidey at the end manages to inject a blood sample from Morbius into his own bloodstream, somehow causing the additional arms to disappear.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #103 (December, 1971), the Daily Bugle faces profit problems and Jameson has to figure ways to increase readership and fast. He decides on an extensive covering of the Savage Land on the next issues. Peter is quickly recruited as the photographer of the mission and Gwen to give "a woman's perspective". She spends most of the issue dressed in revealing swimsuits and being abducted by the Savage Land's latest resident, Kraven the Hunter.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #104 (January, 1972), Ka-Zar defeats Kraven and rescues Gwen, returning her to Jameson. Spidey returns from his own Savage Land adventures, shocking Jameson who had tried to explain to Gwen about Peter missing and presumed deceased.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #105 (February, 1972), Peter and Gwen are joined by members of the supporting cast who had been missing for a while. Harry Osborn has been released from hospital, Eugene "Flash" Thompson has returned from a tour in the Vietnam War and Mary-Jane Watson arrives for a welcome-back party. She flirts with Peter, getting an annoyed reaction. The rest of the issue deals with a fight against Spencer Smythe and the latest Spider-Slayer.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #106 (March, 1972), Peter rejects an offer for a date with Mary-Jane to go out with Gwen. Realizing too late it was less a date and more a concerned call of Flash. Gwen had noticed Flash being disturbed by something following him his return from Vietnam. Flash angrily dismisses their concerns and tells them both to mind their own business. Meanwhile there are protests over the new police cameras invading citizens' private lives. The man behind the cameras is Smythe who has further plots in mind.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #107 (April, 1972), Gwen meets Randy Robertson who is happy about the Daily Bugle covering the protests against police surveillance cameras. Later Flash apologizes to her for his behavior. He tries to voice his attraction to her but she explains her preference for Peter. She still knows something else is bothering Flash but he refuses any discussion on the subject. Flash is later arrested by two men wearing military uniforms, leaving Gwen in tears. Meanwhile Spidey had been busy defeating Smythe, exposing his criminal connections and threatening Jameson to never again try using a Spider-Slayer against him.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #108 (May, 1972), the military vehicle transporting Flash is attacked by followers of the Monks of the Light. Spidey rescues him and learns his story. Wounded in the Vietnam War, Flash was taken in by the monks who healed him. He fell in love with Sha-Shan, daughter of the elder monk. He later returned to his unit and learned of plans of bombing the entire sector where the temple was located. He tried to return and warn them, arriving too late to make a difference. The surviving monks blame him for the bombing and Flash is placed into protective custody by the military. He wasn't supposed to wander New York City by himself. Later Gwen turns up to inform Peter of Flash being in protective custody. They visit Flash together in a Federal Building. The Giant One attacks the building, issues a warning and then leaves. Peter struggles to find a way to follow him without revealing his identity to Gwen or appearing to be a fleeing coward.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #109 (June, 1972), Peter fakes his abduction by Spider-Man in order to escape Gwen. Gwen informs Harry Osborn of the abduction. When May Parker picks the wrong time to visit Peter and calls him a boy, Gwen gives her an earful about failing to realize Peter is a full-grown man. Meanwhile Spidey teams up with Dr. Stephen Strange in facing the Monks and rescuing Flash. This marks the return of Flash to civilian life and Peter comes to realize the guy has feelings for Gwen. Peter is unsure if he is up to competing with Flash for her affections.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #110 (July, 1972), Peter returns to his apartment to find Gwen, Harry and May waiting for him. He learns of the recent argument between the two ladies but is too exhausted and passes out in front of them. Gwen has him rest on the couch. Flash then arrives to assure his friends of his safety. Harry arranges for Flash walking Gwen to her own home. Peter briefly wakes up to see Gwen and Flash leaving together. He assumes they are involved and then passes out again. When he wakes up and goes out as Spidey, Gibbon picks the wrong time to approach him for a partnership. Spidey laughs in his face and they fight while Kraven silently observes
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #111 (August, 1972), Peter discovers May has left to do some much-needed thinking for a while, at least according to a note left behind. He explains the situation to Gwen but admits to not blaming her for her harsh words to his aunt. Someone should have told May a long time ago. The rest of the issue deals with Kraven, still recovering from wounds from his previous battles, hiring Gibbon to fight Spidey in his place and enhancing his killer instinct. Gibbon is mainly motivated by his frustration with people laughing at him, Spidey included.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #112 (September, 1972), Gwen has a very minor role. Spidey has tried and failed to locate May. Discovering that Anna Watson and Mary-Jane have also been looking for his missing aunt. Anna is worried because there is something off with the handwriting of the note. She worries May have been among the victims of a kidnapping spree which had been going on for a while. Spidey starts investigating the spree and goes on to face the mastermind behind it, Dr. Octopus.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #113 (October, 1972), Otto defeats Spidey and pulls off his mask. His foe escapes before giving Octavius the chance to have a good look at his face. Peter is suddenly in pain and Dr. Bromwell , the Parker family physician, believes his patient is suffering from an ulcer. Gwen and his friends are concerned. Ned Leeds contacts Peter about locating May or a look-alike of hers in an "employment agency in the Lower East Side". Peter decides to investigate as Spider-Man. Having no mask to wear, Spidey steals one from a costume shop. He discoveres Otto at the employment agency and they fight while Peter is still in pain. He uses a trick to defeat Otto but is then confronted by the good doctor's latest business rival, Hammerhead.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #114 (November, 1972), Hammerhead captures Spidey and tries to recruit him into his gang. When one of Hammerhead's informers reports Otto sharing a house with an "old broad", Spidey suspects this woman is May. While he tries to convince Hammerhead to drive him to Dr. Octopus, Gwen is at the Empire State University. Dr. Miles Warren approaches her, seeking information on Peter's health problems. Later she meets Flash who makes light of Peter's ulcer. Gwen scolds him and vacates his general vicinity. Spidey escapes Hammerhead, sneaks into Dr. Octopus' hideout ... and is knocked out with a blow at his head by aunt May.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #115 (December, 1972), recovers from unconsciousness in the midst of combat between Dr. Octopus, Hammerhead and their gangs. Meanwhile Gwen is at the Daily Bugle to see if the investigation on May's whereabouts has brought in any results. Ned Leeds has found out May or a look-alike was hired as a housekeeper for a residence in Westchester. Gwen, Ned and Robbie decide to visit the residence together to see if this is May or not.
Spidey manages to defeat Otto but them finds himself threatened by May and her gun. She warns him to get away from Otto. He leaves and returns as Peter to join Gwen, Ned and Robbie in visiting. She refuses to return with them to her old home. Since Peter is a grown man and able to make his own decisions, she is free to make her own choices as well. She has decided to keep her job with Dr. Octopus.Meanwhile a defeated Hammerhead flies out of the United States.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #116 (January, 1973), Gwen convinces Peter that she considers Flash a friend but not a love interest. Then the couple visits a fundraiser for the political campaign of Richard Raleigh. They meet with Mary-Jane who currently serves as a campaign worker. When the roof of the reception hall is about to collapse, Peter has to figure a way to change to Spidey and get people out of the place before they are all killed.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #117 (February, 1973), Peter stops the roof from collapsing and flees before people realize he is Spider-Man in his civilian identity. He later joins Gwen and Mary-Jane at a youth rally in favor of Raleigh. Meanwhile Robbie investigates some holes in Raleigh's background.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #118 (March, 1973), Spidey foils an assassination attempt on Robbie by the Smasher. Then Peter joins Gwen, Harry and Mary-Jane in driving a campaign truck for Raleigh. The Smasher attacks and destroys it though all four of the crew get out in time to survive. Spidey is enraged while tracking down the Smasher. He finds out its an artificial being controlled by the Disruptor and the resulting fight ends with the villain dead. Spidey finds out the Disruptor was Raleigh in disguise. Attacks on his supporters were arranged to present himself as a victim and earn further support and votes.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #120 (May, 1973), Peter calls Gwen from Montreal, Canada to check on her. He has finished fighting the Hulk and now seeks a Jean Pierre Rimbau for information on Dr. Octopus. Gwen urges him to return as quickly as possible. Harry has collapsed due to a relapse in his drug habit. Peter does find Rimbau but just in time to fight the Hulk again. While they fight, Rimbau is assassinated. Peter has no leads left to follow.
*In "Amazing Spider-Man" vol. 1 #121 (June, 1973), Spidey returns to New York City, finding Gwen and Mary-Jane taking care of Harry who is suffering after experimentation with LSD. He decides to enter the apartment as Peter and is confronted by Norman. Norman believes Peter is to blame for Harry's condition. Later his anguish causes the Green Goblin persona to resurface. His first act is to kidnap Gwen. Spidey tracks the duo down to the George Washington Bridge. They fight and the unconscious body of Gwen falls off the side of the bridge. Spidey tries to catch her with his web but the whiplash effect breaks her neck. Gwen dies instantly.
So the only period with Gwen in Europe covers issues #93-98. About four months in real time. She never returns to Europe after that and couldn't have checked on the twins' status.
Unfortunately, Marvel is going to keep this swept under the carpet along with the Clone Saga and OMD. But, the link below is the best fan fiction explanation to jam "Sins Past" into continuity. In short, they hook up around ASM 61-64, she has the kids while in Europe between ASM 93-98, and visits the kids around ASM 119.wolframbane wrote:Was the proper chronology for Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn ever determined with regards to their children? Around which issues during the 1960s-1970s did they have their affair, resulting in Gwen becoming pregnant? When was she leave for Europe for four months? When did she have the twins, and when did she return?
Here is the long version-
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/Greenwit ... gGwen.html
Going by the timeline first established by George Olshevsky, conception around ASM 61 and birth around ASM 98 would mean the pregnancy probably lasted seven months, from May of Peter Parker's freshman year of college to December of Peter's sophomore year.In short, they hook up around ASM 61-64, she has the kids while in Europe between ASM 93-98