Excalibur 41 Placement

[frogcoin]

i have been trying to fit Xcal 41 in the MU timeline but the placement as MCP suggest colides with the NM; UX and XF for one panel at the end of the issue. This panel has cable reciving a call from excalibur asking to please put them in contact with the X-Men, then cable saying "ah excalibur, it was about time you call", then shows Excalibur in middle of his video commlink the 4 panels around it showing
panel 1: X-Men Gold team
panel 2: X-Men Blue team
panel 3: X-Force
panel 4: X-Factor (Havok, Madrox, Syrin, guido, wolfsbane)

also nightcrawler says before this panel that they are as important as the X-Men, New Mutants or X-Factor, and theres a footnote indicating that this occurs before X-Force #1.

the main issue is hat cable is shown in the MCP:
XCAL 41
UX 273
time when none of those teams are assembled that way.

the proper placement seems after XF 71 when XF new team joins the series, then for Gold and Blue cloud be after X3 that its the first adventure where the X-men are split in two teams because theyre created during the fight with magneto and the acolytes, so that leaves UX between UX 280 and UX 281 so the best placement would be:

UX 280 (end of Muir Island Saga)
XF 70-73 (XF new team forms in XF 71)
X 1-3 (Gold & Blue teams form in X 1)
XCAL 41
XFOR 1 (Xcal 41 says that its prior to XFOR 1)
X 4-5
UX 281 (Blue team in hellfire club)

i would like to know some comments about this. thanks.

[JephYork]

Please note that the new Index, #7, deleted this appearance for Cable, for precisely that reason. It has to occur later.

There is a weird hiccup, though, in that Kurt calls the X-Mansion and Cable answers ... but he and the New Mutants/X-Force left PRIOR to X-Men #1, and the team rosters on the monitors place this after X-Men #3. Any thoughts on how to resolve that?

-Jeph!

[metaldragon]

I don't see why it can't fit sometime between XF 71 (after Cyclops, still wearing his X-Factor uniform visits Havok with Professor X) and X 1 (after Blue & Gold teams are formed but before the issue begins).

Shouldn't that be Polaris with X-Factor, not Siryn? I'll have to dig out the issue again...

[JephYork]

Again -- I'm fairly sure Cable and X-Force have packed up and left the mansion by XF #71.

Also, X #1 is not "after" the blue and gold teams are formed. They're formed DURING the issue.

-Jeph!

[frogcoin]

yes metaldragon my mistake, syrin goes with X-Force and polaris with X-Factor
im reading closely those issues to gather more info about the placement, so far:

NM 100 (cable takes X-Force out of the mansion at the end of the issue; they have been using the underground complex for living an using his installations as de danger room)
UX 278 (Xavier steal the blackbird from excalibur at the W.H.O Airport; but noone knows who is the thief coz hes in shiar armor)
UX 279 (Xavier is beng chased by colossus who is possesed by the shadow king, he access the underground complex and lure the shadow king to the danger room; Xavier notices the alarms are disengaged)
XF 69 (Xavier meets with XF and goes to muir island to battle the shadow king)
UX 280 (Final conforntation with shadow king on muir island, the mutants influenced by shadow king in muir island are freed, polaris and madrox were part of the mutants in muir island)
XF 70 (xavier tries to put legion psyque together wit no sucess, at the end of the issue xavies tells himself "My only question now is…what am I going to do with fourteen X-Men?")
XF 71 (new X-Factor team is assembled)
X 1 (the Mansion was already rebuilt)
XCAL 45 (Nightcrawler board a plane different from the blackbird explaining that "the plane was mislaid by W.H.O)

im reading the kings of ain arc to gather more info; as additional info the codenames of the X-teams were assigned later and theres no name in Xcal saying gold and blue so we could move XCAL 41 to before X1. Also in UX 280 the mansion didnt exist, only the sub-basement (it has been destroyed for some time, since infierno and Mr. Sinister) and in X 1 the mansion was rebuilt so some time happens between those issues. Another point that makes me think is Excalibur is contacting the X-Men, then cable answers, then he says "whos in our private line?" the he says "is about time you guys called. Hold the phone-- ill transfer you".

that "ill transfer you" puts some thoughts on my mind.

[JephYork]

Why would Excalibur have any other contact number besides the main X-Mansion, though? It's not like Kurt said "I know; I'll call X-Force's Adirondacks Mountains HQ, formerly a Sentinel base, to ask Cable to transfer me to the mansion..."

-Jeph!

[Somebody]

Cable nicked the Mansion's phone number when he moved

If we're trying to deconstruct the scene in detail though... why does CABLE greet Excalibur as old friends? At this point in continuity, none of Excalibur have even MET him, yes? [Let's not get into the Cable/Rachel stuff - as far as she's aware, she's never met him, and he knows that]

[metaldragon]

yes metaldragon my mistake, syrin goes with X-Force and polaris with X-Factor
im reading closely those issues to gather more info about the placement, so far:

NM 100 (cable takes X-Force out of the mansion at the end of the issue; they have been using the underground complex for living an using his installations as de danger room)
UX 278 (Xavier steal the blackbird from excalibur at the W.H.O Airport; but noone knows who is the thief coz hes in shiar armor)
UX 279 (Xavier is beng chased by colossus who is possesed by the shadow king, he access the underground complex and lure the shadow king to the danger room; Xavier notices the alarms are disengaged)
XF 69 (Xavier meets with XF and goes to muir island to battle the shadow king)
UX 280 (Final conforntation with shadow king on muir island, the mutants influenced by shadow king in muir island are freed, polaris and madrox were part of the mutants in muir island)
XF 70 (xavier tries to put legion psyque together wit no sucess, at the end of the issue xavies tells himself "My only question now is…what am I going to do with fourteen X-Men?")
XF 71 (new X-Factor team is assembled)
X 1 (the Mansion was already rebuilt)
XCAL 45 (Nightcrawler board a plane different from the blackbird explaining that "the plane was mislaid by W.H.O)

im reading the kings of ain arc to gather more info; as additional info the codenames of the X-teams were assigned later and theres no name in Xcal saying gold and blue so we could move XCAL 41 to before X1. Also in UX 280 the mansion didnt exist, only the sub-basement (it has been destroyed for some time, since infierno and Mr. Sinister) and in X 1 the mansion was rebuilt so some time happens between those issues. Another point that makes me think is Excalibur is contacting the X-Men, then cable answers, then he says "whos in our private line?" the he says "is about time you guys called. Hold the phone-- ill transfer you".

that "ill transfer you" puts some thoughts on my mind.

Siryn can't be on the team at this point because the footnote on page 30 mentions this takes place before XFOR 1. She doesn't join them until XFOR 3. Double checking, she doesn't appear on the monitor in XCAL 41. Cable probably intercepted the transmission while the X-Men were rebuilding the mansion and passed it on to the other teams since he does call it "our line".

I believe X-Factor were wearing their team uniforms on the monitor which means the earliest spot it takes place is during XF 72, shortly before their press conference in where they are introduced to the public as the new X-Factor and premiere those uniforms. During the press conference begins the good vs evil Madrox storyline that doesn't resolve until XF 75 which might be pushing it a bit late...?

Hm, one of the "monitors" shows Cable with a gun posing in front of the New Mutants while he's actually at the com panel with no gun in his hands. Very odd...

Phoenix met Cable during the Days of Future Present annuals crossover.

[frogcoin]

youre correct about siryn, she doesnt even appear onscreen in XCAL 41 and she joins after XFOR 1

Kings of Pain was a silly topic and was totally out of the question because it happens before the end of the muir saga.

Also its true that XF doesnt wear their costumes until XF 72 but that doesnt mean they receive their uniforms behind the courtain just before show up in their first public appearance, i would like to consider XCAL 41 between XF71 and XF72.

Cable showing on monitor posing sounds odd of course, but still we should consider when we see a TV or a video under normal circumstances that the image being show is actually happening or has already occur in any moment before.

about "ill transfer you" i was thinking something about the lines of cable taking the private x-line for himself since nobody came to claim or rebuild the mansion after all that time (after the events of inferno) and there could be important distress calls incoming, or cable tapped the private line and as the mansion wasnt still buit he decided answer the phone since no x-people could answer it; and i mean taped because sometimes xavier leaved XForce deal with some issues that were no good for the x-men image so that way he could resign his responsability in the matter in case Val cooper or someone else demanded an explanation at xavier for the leaked information.

And yeah im being paranoid lol.

[JephYork]

Clearly the monitor images are not happening live -- unless everyone REALLY likes to do the group-shot pose simultaneously.

While I can't get behind the "Xavier let X-Force handle dirty things" supposition (even though that's basically what the current X-Force is), it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Cable put a tap on the X-Men's comm system.

Basically, though, we have two conflicting sets of clues here, and we probably need to disregard one.

1) Cable is implied to be at the X-Mansion answering the phone, and a footnote places this before X-Force #1.

2) detailed monitor images showing the teams at least after X-Force #3.

It seems to be pretty much a toss-up to me ... can we just get a straight-out vote, as to which one seems more important to uphold and which we can easily disregard?

-Jeph!

[metaldragon]

youre correct about siryn, she doesnt even appear onscreen in XCAL 41 and she joins after XFOR 1

Kings of Pain was a silly topic and was totally out of the question because it happens before the end of the muir saga.

Also its true that XF doesnt wear their costumes until XF 72 but that doesnt mean they receive their uniforms behind the courtain just before show up in their first public appearance, i would like to consider XCAL 41 between XF71 and XF72.

Cable showing on monitor posing sounds odd of course, but still we should consider when we see a TV or a video under normal circumstances that the image being show is actually happening or has already occur in any moment before.

about "ill transfer you" i was thinking something about the lines of cable taking the private x-line for himself since nobody came to claim or rebuild the mansion after all that time (after the events of inferno) and there could be important distress calls incoming, or cable tapped the private line and as the mansion wasnt still buit he decided answer the phone since no x-people could answer it; and i mean taped because sometimes xavier leaved XForce deal with some issues that were no good for the x-men image so that way he could resign his responsability in the matter in case Val cooper or someone else demanded an explanation at xavier for the leaked information.

It can't go between XF 71 & 72 because one of Jamie's dupes gets shot at the end of 71 and leads directly into 72 which picks up directly after that with the team finding out he's still alive but he can't absorb the body of his dupe. It would have to happen during XF 72 before their press conference.

So Cable took over the "switchboard" while the X-Men are busy rebuilding the mansion. No biggie.

Clearly the monitor images are not happening live -- unless everyone REALLY likes to do the group-shot pose simultaneously.

While I can't get behind the "Xavier let X-Force handle dirty things" supposition (even though that's basically what the current X-Force is), it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Cable put a tap on the X-Men's comm system.

Basically, though, we have two conflicting sets of clues here, and we probably need to disregard one.

1) Cable is implied to be at the X-Mansion answering the phone, and a footnote places this before X-Force #1.

2) detailed monitor images showing the teams at least after X-Force #3.

It seems to be pretty much a toss-up to me ... can we just get a straight-out vote, as to which one seems more important to uphold and which we can easily disregard?

2) is incorrect. Siryn does not appear in the monitor so this CAN go before XFOR 3.

[Michael]

It's possible Cable gave the X-teams a number where they could contact him in case of an emergency, and somehow his futuristic technology prevented the X-teams for tracking down the location of the phone.

If we're trying to deconstruct the scene in detail though... why does CABLE greet Excalibur as old friends? At this point in continuity, none of Excalibur have even MET him, yes? [Let's not get into the Cable/Rachel stuff - as far as she's aware, she's never met him, and he knows that]

Actually, Cable met present-day Rachel in the Days of Futures Present storyline. You're right about the others. To be fair, it's possible that they met behind the scenes- Excalibur came by to visit the X-Men or Kitty and Kurt stopped by to visit the New Mutants and Cable was in the mansion at the time.

[Somebody]

If we're trying to deconstruct the scene in detail though... why does CABLE greet Excalibur as old friends? At this point in continuity, none of Excalibur have even MET him, yes? [Let's not get into the Cable/Rachel stuff - as far as she's aware, she's never met him, and he knows that]

Actually, Cable met present-day Rachel in the Days of Futures Present storyline. You're right about the others.

I'll admit I forgot about DoFPresent [damn those Annuals-crossovers! Nothing but trouble! ], but I only excepted Rachel because of the Rachel/baby Christopher stuff (which got her running to the US in Inferno) since she didn't know about him growing up to be Cable, and the Mother Askani stuff (which hadn't happened for Rachel yet). I don't think DoFPres would result in an old-friends-type greeting to the whole of Excalibur from Cable.

To be fair, it's possible that they met behind the scenes- Excalibur came by to visit the X-Men or Kitty and Kurt stopped by to visit the New Mutants and Cable was in the mansion at the time.

The whole point of the issue is that Excalibur have been out of contact with the other teams though, and Cable's reaction would be in-line with that if he hadn't been one of the worst choices to deliver it.

[metaldragon]

It's possible Cable gave the X-teams a number where they could contact him in case of an emergency, and somehow his futuristic technology prevented the X-teams for tracking down the location of the phone.

If we're trying to deconstruct the scene in detail though... why does CABLE greet Excalibur as old friends? At this point in continuity, none of Excalibur have even MET him, yes? [Let's not get into the Cable/Rachel stuff - as far as she's aware, she's never met him, and he knows that]

Actually, Cable met present-day Rachel in the Days of Futures Present storyline. You're right about the others. To be fair, it's possible that they met behind the scenes- Excalibur came by to visit the X-Men or Kitty and Kurt stopped by to visit the New Mutants and Cable was in the mansion at the time.

The point of XCAL 41 is that Excalibur haven't talked with the X-Men since before XCAL 1 and have a lot of unresolved issues. Kitty was upset that the X-Men let them believe they were dead when they had really survived the Fall of the Mutants and hadn't let them know. Captain Britain hasn't talked to his sister yet since finding out she's still alive. The only X-Men Phoenix has seen in person (during Days of Future Present) are Storm (as a pre-teen), Psylocke, and Wolverine (who for some reason she worries about seeing again in this issue. Guess she didn't fully resolve the "getting stabbed by him when attacking Selene" trauma there. Franklin was kinda manipulating her mind a bit in DoFP).

The whole point of the issue is that Excalibur have been out of contact with the other teams though, and Cable's reaction would be in-line with that if he hadn't been one of the worst choices to deliver it.

I dunno, Cable has files on everyone. He's got "Professor" at his disposal during this period so he'd know exactly who he was looking at when they called.

[JephYork]

Yes, but the point is he answers the phone in a familiar manner. Regardless -- that's a plot-hole, not a continuity point. It's odd, but doesn't affect our discussion here.

So Cable took over the "switchboard" while the X-Men are busy rebuilding the mansion. No biggie.

No -- remember, Cyclops splits the X-Men into two squads DURING X-Men #1, AFTER the mansion has been rebuilt. And besides, why would the mansion being rebuilt affect the phones enough that Prof. X would contact a guy he has no way of contacting, a guy who has cut ties with the X-Men and left many lingering bad feelings, a guy whose team is on the outs with the X-Men (and outlaws even by their standards), to take his calls for him? That's silly.

Again, we're circling around two placement options:

1) Before the New Mutants leave the X-Mansion (making the monitor images incorrect).

2) After the 90s teams settle into their rosters (after X #1, after XF #72, etc.), making Cable answering the X-Men's phones extremely odd.

So which is it? Art error or awkward chronological placement?

-Jeph!