Avengers Inferno question

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Michael
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:13 am

metaldragon wrote: What happens to Nathan Christopher after being transported to Times Square with the rest of the babies at the end of XTERM 3? Is he BTS during XTERM 4/NM 72 & XF 36 when N'astirh is fighting with S'ym? When does he next appear? Is it UX 241/XF 37?

Side note: What happens in PPTSS 147? Is that placed correctly in N'astirh's listing? Is N'astirh green or red there?

Is it possible, that Cannonball could have seen N'astirh with 2 babies, in Limbo? I suppose there could be a gap forced in XTERM 3 between page 28 & 29 when N'astirh transports them all to Times Square & before he sends the goblins to fly up and form the pentacle with the babies. N'astirh could have quickly popped into Limbo to check on how S'ym was doing manipulating Illyana into opening the portal during NM 71 to get the timing right. Where would that moment go in NM 71? I don't have a copy of it so can't check. Is it possible this is a scene which explains the fate of the 2 missing babies?!?
Nathan and the other 2 babies were stolen from Sinister's orphanage in XF 35. They were never IN Times Square. Jean and Scott chase them from Nebraska to New York in XF 36. (Side note: babies in the MU are tough- I can't imagine a kid in real life surviving being flown through the open air from Nebraska to New York.) Nathan appears in XF 37, then UX 242, then XF 38, where we see the other 2 babies.
metaldragon wrote: In XTERM 3, pg 23 N'astirh says "I require one infant to channel power for the entrance spell. And three more after that for final transformation. But that problem is even now being solved.*" "*See X-Factor 36." That's pretty obscure. Not sure WHAT that means.
What it means is this:the spell was 10 babies die in Times Square, 3 on the Empire State Building. The babies stolen from Sinister's orphanage were intended to be killed on the Empire State Building.
metaldragon wrote:Another question, is N'astirh green or metallic red in Avengers 299? If he's green, then it's before NM 72, pg 24/XTERM 4, pg 27. If he's red then it's after NM 72, pg 24/XTERM 4, pg 27. That is the moment when he's infected by the Transmode Virus by S'ym.
He's green in Avengers 300. So Avengers 299 takes place before he's infected.
metaldragon wrote:Edit: Unless Cannonball talked to Artie & Leech during the aerial battle during XTERM 4 pg 19-31/NM 72 pg 9-24.
But A 299 is currently placed before the aerial battle.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by JephYork » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:07 am

You guys should check out Index #6's X-Men section for a detailed breakdown of how Inferno fits together. We did a whole sidebar article on it. ;)

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:32 pm

Michael wrote:Nathan and the other 2 babies were stolen from Sinister's orphanage in XF 35. They were never IN Times Square. Jean and Scott chase them from Nebraska to New York in XF 36. (Side note: babies in the MU are tough- I can't imagine a kid in real life surviving being flown through the open air from Nebraska to New York.) Nathan appears in XF 37, then UX 242, then XF 38, where we see the other 2 babies.
In XTERM 3, pg 23, N'astirh does the speech referring to XF 36. Then on pg 25, a group of goblins comes flying into the crypt when the X-terminators are trying to rescue Artie, Leech, Wiz Kid and the babies. They say: "As you command, master-- we come!" "We bring baby!" "We fight!" It's possible this is the arrival of the goblins from Sinister's orphanage and that the baby specifically shown and mentioned is Nathan Christopher. That means after he was flown from Nebraska he was transported by spell from the spooky graveyard in New York to the building in Times Square with the rest of the babies, N'astirh's goblins, the X-Terminators, and Wiz Kid's magic processing computer in XTERM 3 on pg 27 and is BTS during XTERM 4.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:40 pm

No, it's not possible. Because in XF 36-37, the demons who have Nathan are frustrated because they can't find N'astirh. Finally they bring him Nathan in XF 37.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:58 pm

Michael wrote:But A 299 is currently placed before the aerial battle.
How is that possible? The New Mutants only just dropped out of Limbo in the midst of the aerial battle. They almost immediately fly up to help the X-terminators rescue the babies from the pentacle after witnessing Illyana teleport away when N'astirh & S'ym fight over her. Is it possible that A 299 takes place after the computer has exploded in XTERM 4, last page/NM 72, pg 24) but before Illyana sweeps the demons back into Limbo and closes the portal for good in NM 73, pg 41? Or is the pentacle clearly drawn in the sky? If so, then Cannonball must have encountered the Avengers sometime DURING the aerial battle.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:42 pm

metaldragon wrote:
How is that possible? The New Mutants only just dropped out of Limbo in the midst of the aerial battle. They almost immediately fly up to help the X-terminators rescue the babies from the pentacle after witnessing Illyana teleport away when N'astirh & S'ym fight over her. Is it possible that A 299 takes place after the computer has exploded in XTERM 4, last page/NM 72, pg 24) but before Illyana sweeps the demons back into Limbo and closes the portal for good in NM 73, pg 41? Or is the pentacle clearly drawn in the sky? If so, then Cannonball must have encountered the Avengers sometime DURING the aerial battle.
First, Cannonball only encounters Cap, not the Avengers. Second, Illyana is clearly present when Sam talks to Cap- and she's in her red demon form, not in her armored form, so this has to take place before Illyana teleported away. There has to be a gap between the New Mutants dropping out of Limbo and Illyana teleporting away where A 299 occurs.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:48 pm

Michael wrote:No, it's not possible. Because in XF 36-37, the demons who have Nathan are frustrated because they can't find N'astirh. Finally they bring him Nathan in XF 37.
Hm. Just re-read XF 36 & 37.

In XF 36, pg 9 Jean & Scott are flying over water and Manhattan is shown in the distance. She's experiencing what's happening to Nathan Christopher. On pg 9 they are closer to Manhattan and Jean suddenly says she can't feel him anymore. "As we reached the city, I just… lost him." Then they are attacked by a transformed jet plane and nearly crash into the demonized Empire State Building.

It's possible this is the moment when N'astirh transports from the graveyard to Time Square. In XTERM 2 it's clearly stated that the graveyard is in New York.

Then on pg 22-24 they see the pentacle form over Manhattan, their ship's instruments short out and they have to bail out. The portal opens and demons drop out. They fight demons until pg 31 when they see explosion from Wiz Kid's computer and then Jean says: "Scott… the static's gone. I found little Christopher, Scott! The demons have landed. They're scanning the city… Can't find what… no who… who they're looking for. They say… if they can't sacrifice him, they will eat him--now!"

In XF 37, pg 4 N'astirh reforms himself after being exploded by Wiz Kid & the magic computer from the end of XTERM 4. He says: "Come to me, my demon servants! Bring me the Goblin Queen's child." A group of demons fly in with Nathan Christopher and say: "Master… we come!" "What happen?" "You… changed."

He replies: "Of course, fools, I have changed. I have… acquired the Transmode Virus. And through it's power I have absorbed a living computer's ability to process magic instantly. To all intents and purposes… I now AM magick"

Then on pg 6: Jean senses his arrival as she's leading X-Factor towards Nathan Christoper. The goblin carrying Nathan Christopher says: "For you, master! Baby we stole. Got more babies, too!".

As far as I can tell, dialogue is vague enough that it could go equally either way. All I can say is, ask Louise Simonson what her intentions were. IS the group of goblins who arrive at the last moment in XTERM 3 the ones carrying Nathan Christopher?
Last edited by metaldragon on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:54 pm

Michael wrote:First, Cannonball only encounters Cap, not the Avengers. Second, Illyana is clearly present when Sam talks to Cap- and she's in her red demon form, not in her armored form, so this has to take place before Illyana teleported away. There has to be a gap between the New Mutants dropping out of Limbo and Illyana teleporting away where A 299 occurs.
Ah! Thank-you. That must be the moment in XTERM 4, between pg 4 & 6 then. Yeesh. Not much time at all!

Edit: And in NM 72, before pg 8.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:04 pm

Here's a thought. All the demonized inanimate objects that appear before the portal to Limbo opening are the work of N'astirh's spells. He takes credit for it in XF 36. Wouldn't that give him a BTS in every appearance of animated objects in every book leading up to the moment when the portal opens and the rest of the demons arrive? That also means XTERM 1 pg 1-5 has to take place before the first instance a demon animated object appears anywhere in New York City in the Marvel Universe in books from around OCT 1988 up to the portal opening.
Last edited by metaldragon on Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:08 pm

If we want to do that, we need to remember that Maddie apparently takes over at some point, since the city only reverts to normal when Maddie dies. Obviously, as of NM 72, N'astirh was still behind the transformation, since the city temporarily reverts to normal when he's momentarily destroyed, but after that at some point Maddie takes over.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:27 pm

Michael wrote:If we want to do that, we need to remember that Maddie apparently takes over at some point, since the city only reverts to normal when Maddie dies. Obviously, as of NM 72, N'astirh was still behind the transformation, since the city temporarily reverts to normal when he's momentarily destroyed, but after that at some point Maddie takes over.
Even after Maddie's death objects and people still had residual demonic effects as shown in C&D3 4 and PP 44, as well as the X-Men themselves in UX 243 & XF 39. Crotus stole Belasco's spell books (when N'astirh acquired the Transmode Virus & absorbed Wiz Kid's computer) and was trying to keep things going for a while after they died, until Dagger fried him in C&D3 4.
Last edited by metaldragon on Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:57 pm

metaldragon wrote:
In XF 36, pg 9 Jean & Scott are flying over water and Manhattan is shown in the distance. She's experiencing what's happening to Nathan Christopher. On pg 9 they are closer to Manhattan and Jean suddenly says she can't feel him anymore. "As we reached the city, I just… lost him." Then they are attacked by a transformed jet plane and nearly crash into the demonized Empire State Building.

It's possible this is the moment when N'astirh transports from the graveyard to Time Square. In XTERM 2 it's clearly stated that the graveyard is in New York.

Then on pg 22-24 they see the pentacle form over Manhattan, their ship's instruments short out and they have to bail out. The portal opens and demons drop out. They fight demons until pg 31 when they see explosion from Wiz Kid's computer and then Jean says: "Scott… the static's gone. I found little Christopher, Scott! The demons have landed. They're scanning the city… Can't find what… no who… who they're looking for. They say… if they can't sacrifice him, they will eat him--now!"

In XF 37, pg 4 N'astirh reforms himself after being exploded by Wiz Kid & the magic computer from the end of XTERM 4. He says: "Come to me, my demon servants! Bring me the Goblin Queen's child." A group of demons fly in with Nathan Christopher and say: "Master… we come!" "What happen?" "You… changed."

He replies: "Of course, fools, I have changed. I have… acquired the Transmode Virus. And through it's power I have absorbed a living computer's ability to process magic instantly. To all intents and purposes… I now AM magick"

Then on pg 6: Jean senses his arrival as she's leading X-Factor towards Nathan Christoper. The goblin carrying Nathan Christopher says: "For you, master! Baby we stole. Got more babies, too!".

As far as I can tell, dialogue is vague enough that it could go equally either way. All I can say is, ask Louise Simonson what her intentions were. IS the group of goblins who arrive at the last moment in XTERM 3 the ones carrying Nathan Christopher?
Hold on a second- I just read through NM 72. On page 17, Warlock says they've freed 6 babies and Sam grabs a seventh. Then, Bobby says "Three more babies and our job's done!" On page 19, we see the New Mutants with 10 babies. So it appears that there were 10 babies in Times Square, and the New Mutants saved all of them.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:25 pm

Michael wrote:Hold on a second- I just read through NM 72. On page 17, Warlock says they've freed 6 babies and Sam grabs a seventh. Then, Bobby says "Three more babies and our job's done!" On page 19, we see the New Mutants with 10 babies. So it appears that there were 10 babies in Times Square, and the New Mutants saved all of them.
Yes, that's correct. However, N'astirh required 13. One of those was Nathan Christopher. Ten were in the pentacle that the New Mutants & X-terminators saved. The other 2 are unaccounted for and must have been BTS. Do we ever find out what happened to them after this point?
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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:35 pm

My point is those were the babies in XF 37-38 who the Goblyn Queen tried to kill on the Empire State Building.

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Re: Avengers Inferno question

Post by metaldragon » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:18 pm

I just read XF 38 and near the end Iceman mentions they recovered 3 more babies on the top of the Empire State building. That means 13 babies PLUS Nathan Christopher (so 14 in total!) That makes what N'astirh said in XTERM 3 make sense! That means the 3 must have been BTS for all of XF 37, UX 242 & most of XF 38 until that point then.

Between N'astirh's insistence on acquiring 13 babies throughout XTERM 1-3, the specific reference in XTERM 3 to him checking on the goblins carrying Nathan Christopher and the other orphanage babies in XF 36, the timing of events between X-TERM 3-4 & XF 36 and the dialogue of the goblins who arrive at the end of XTERM 3, "We bring baby!", I think they are actually referring to Nathan Christopher there. I don't think N'astirh would have allowed such essential ingredients to his plans out of his control for long. I'd add XTERM 3 to Nathan Christopher's listing and give him a BTS for XTERM 4.
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