miscellaneous minor misplacements

[michel]

In every case, the books have been checked

1) Howard the Duck makes a 4-panel cameo appearance in M/TIO 46, the Thing goes to Hollywood and can't believe he's meeting a talking duck. In Howard's chronology, it's been placed before HTD 1 and that seems curious. HTD 1 was published 3 years before M/TIO 46. Also, Hulk appears both in M/TIO 46 and M/TE 12, the only book with M/TU 96 Howard appeared in outside HTD and HTD MAG while they lasted.

HOWARD THE DUCK
HTD 13-FB
{AIF 19}
M-T 1
GSM-T 4/2
GSM-T 5/2
M/TIO 46
HTD 1
HTD 2-FB
HTD 2
HTD 3
HTD 4
HTD 5
HTD 6
HTD 7
M/TE 12
HTD 8
...

For Hulk, M/TIO 46 is way after M/TE 12 (M/TE 12 is before H2 194 and M/TIO 46 after H2 226). But since Howard almost didn't quit its own books, it's hard to place M/TIO 46. It's been published in between HTD 28 and 29. Can someone help me place it ?


2) For the Guardians of the Galaxy, M/PRS 11 continues directly from M/PRS 10. Yet, M/PRS 11 and M/PRS 12 are not listed in the MCP, and the Guardians' next apperance after M/PRS 10 is T@ 6. Is this a mistake or has M/PRS 11-12 been retconned out of continuity ?


3) Nick Fury appears in M/SPT 31 and 32

FURY, NICK
CA 191
M/TU 36-BTS
CB 15-27
CA 224
M/SPT 31
M/SPT 32 ~ S-W:O 2-3
M/TU 51
Q 1-FB
RH 3/2
H2 199
CA 209-BTS
DEF 47-FB
DEF 51
UX 98
M/TIO 26
M/TIO 27
M/TIO 28
M/TIO 30

Nick Fury and the Contessa de la Fontaine make a cameo appearance on the first page of UX 98. But for VAL, M/SPT 31 is after UX 98

DE LA FONTAINE, CONTESSA VALENTINA ALLEGRO
CA 191
* M/SPT 31 moved here
UX 98
M/TIO 26
MSM 17
* M/SPT 31 moved from here
M/TU 82

For Mentallo II, M/SPT 32-FB is after M/TIO 26-27. M/SPT 32-FB (7:1-7:2) happens before M/SPT 32, before Arachne is trained by Hydra. And for Fury M/SPT 32 is before M/TIO 26-27

MENTALLO II/MARVIN FLUMM
ST 141
ST 142
ST 143
DD 121-BTS
DD 122-BTS
DD 123
* M/SPT 32 (7:1)-FB moved here
* S-W:O 2 moved here
* M/SPT 32 (7:2)-FB moved here
M/TIO 26
M/TIO 27
* M/SPT 32 (7:1)-FB moved from here
* S-W:O 2 moved from here
* M/SPT 32 (7:2)-FB moved from here
CA 238-FB
MICRO 25-FB
MICRO 24


4) Modok appears in MSM 5-10 after IM@ 4, but Iron Man in BTS in MSM 5 before IM@ 4

MODOK/GEORGE TARLETON
IM 75
IM@ 4
A3 17-FB
MSM 5
MSM 7
MSM 9
MSM 10
M/TU 104

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
A 160
M/TIO 28-BTS
MSM 5-BTS
CM 50
CM 51
A 161
A 162
IM3 19 (12:5)-FB
GZILL 3
IM@ 4
IM:HYPER 3 (7:1)-FB
IM:HYPER 3 (7:3)-FB-FB
A 169
A 163
A 164
A 165
A 166

Stark is BTS in MSM 5 because he sends Abe Klein to meet Carol Danvers, he had to leave unexpectedly. And in MSM 7, Modok refers IM@ 4.
I guess IM@ 4 could be placed in between MSM 5 and 7 for Modok, or MSM 5-BTS could be placed after IM@ 4 for Stark, what do the first indexes say ?

5) Rafael Scarfe is listed in both IF 15-FB and IF 15. Unless I'm missing him, I only see him in the FB

[Michael]

For Hulk, M/TIO 46 is way after M/TE 12 (M/TE 12 is before H2 194 and M/TIO 46 after H2 226). But since Howard almost didn't quit its own books, it's hard to place M/TIO 46. It's been published in between HTD 28 and 29. Can someone help me place it ?

HTD 27 takes place before SVTU 8 in the Circus of Crime's chronology. SVTU 8 takes place before A 155. M/TIO 46 takes place after G/ZIL 21. G/ZIL 17 takes place after A 178 in the Wasp's chronology. So M/TIO 46 takes place after HTD 27.
M/TU 96 takes place after FF 218, which is after M/TIO 46. So M/TIO 46 takes place sometime between HTD 27 and M/TU 96.

4) Modok appears in MSM 5-10 after IM@ 4, but Iron Man in BTS in MSM 5 before IM@ 4

MODOK/GEORGE TARLETON
IM 75
IM@ 4
A3 17-FB
MSM 5
MSM 7
MSM 9
MSM 10
M/TU 104

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
A 160
M/TIO 28-BTS
MSM 5-BTS
CM 50
CM 51
A 161
A 162
IM3 19 (12:5)-FB
GZILL 3
IM@ 4
IM:HYPER 3 (7:1)-FB
IM:HYPER 3 (7:3)-FB-FB
A 169
A 163
A 164
A 165
A 166

Stark is BTS in MSM 5 because he sends Abe Klein to meet Carol Danvers, he had to leave unexpectedly. And in MSM 7, Modok refers IM@ 4.
I guess IM@ 4 could be placed in between MSM 5 and 7 for Modok, or MSM 5-BTS could be placed after IM@ 4 for Stark, what do the first indexes say ?

According to Murray Ward's Avengers Index 4, the Vision's appearance in MSM 5 takes pace in between A 160 and 161. According to the same index, IM@ 4 takes place in between A 162 and 163. So IM@ 4 takes place in between MSM 5 and 7.

[michel]

1)

HTD 27 takes place before SVTU 8 in the Circus of Crime's chronology. SVTU 8 takes place before A 155. M/TIO 46 takes place after G/ZIL 21. G/ZIL 17 takes place after A 178 in the Wasp's chronology. So M/TIO 46 takes place after HTD 27.
M/TU 96 takes place after FF 218, which is after M/TIO 46. So M/TIO 46 takes place sometime between HTD 27 and M/TU 96.

OK, that narrows it well. I checked the books to see if I could find a placement, most stories happen in Cleveland, those at the end of the Mag happen in Florida and New Orleans, BUT in HTD 29 Howard spends some days in Las Vegas, to appear in a TV show. That's not too far from Hollywood, so he could have been there in between (9:3) and (9:4) of HTD 29.

Proposed chronology :

HOWARD THE DUCK
HTD 13-FB
{AIF 19}
M-T 1
GSM-T 4/2
GSM-T 5/2
* M/TIO 46 moved from here
HTD 1
HTD 2-FB
HTD 2
HTD 3
HTD 4
HTD 5
HTD 6
HTD 7
M/TE 12
HTD 8
HTD 9
HTD 10
HTD 11
HTD 12
HTD 13
HTD 14
HTD@ 1
HTD 15
HTD 17
HTD 18
HTD 19
HTD 20
HTD 21
HTD 22
HTD 23
HTD 24
HTD 25
HTD 26
HTD 27
HTD 28
* HTD 29 splitted in two
* M/TIO 46 moved here
* HTD 29 splitted in two
HTD 30
HTD 31
HTD MAG 1
HTD MAG 1/2
HTD MAG 1/3
HTD MAG 2
HTD MAG 2/2
HTD MAG 3
HTD MAG 5
M/TU 96


4)

According to Murray Ward's Avengers Index 4, the Vision's appearance in MSM 5 takes pace in between A 160 and 161. According to the same index, IM@ 4 takes place in between A 162 and 163. So IM@ 4 takes place in between MSM 5 and 7.

OK, then, proposed chronology :

MODOK/GEORGE TARLETON
IM 75
* IM@ 4 moved from here
A3 17-FB
MSM 5
* IM@ 4 moved here
MSM 7
MSM 9
MSM 10
M/TU 104

Edit : A3 17-FB is set after MSM 4, it's not related to IM@ 4

[michel]

6) I believe there's been a confusion with two Elisabeth Wilford

WILFORD, ELISABETH "BETSY"
UX 98
CX 6 (13)
UX 109-BTS
CM 50
UX 111-BTS
MSM 19
PM&IF 50
UX 123
UX 124
DAZZ 1-BTS

WILFORD, ETHAN
CM 50
UX 111-BTS
MSM 19

"Betsy" Wilford is a young woman who dated Colossus. But "Lizzie" Wilford, wife of Ethan, is a mature woman who took Ronan in in her farm when he was mentally disturbed. I checked CM 47-50 and noticed some missing entries for Ethan and Lizzie, and that Dr. Tara and Dr. Mac-Ronn had no entry. So :

WILFORD, ELISABETH "BETSY"
UX 98
CX 6 (13)
UX 109-BTS
PM&IF 50
UX 123
UX 124
DAZZ 1-BTS

WILFORD, ELIZABETH "LIZZY"
CM 48
CM 49
CM 50
UX 111-BTS
MSM 19

WILFORD, ETHAN
CM 48
CM 49
CM 50
UX 111-BTS
CM 55
MSM 19

DR. MAC-RONN [KREE]
CM 47
CM 48
CM 49
CM 50
CM 55
MSM 19

DR. TARA [KREE]
CM 47
CM 48
CM 49 (dies)

RONAN THE ACCUSER [KREE]
...
A 97
CM 41
* CM 47 added
* CM 48-BTS added
CM 49
CM 50
CM 55
MSM 19
SS3 13
...

[JephYork]

I brought up the two Betsy Wilfords about six months ago...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5087

-Jeph!

[michel]

Thanks Jeph, I'm correcting my mistake, it's Elizabeth with a z for Lizzy.

Do you know where the BTS appearance for the Wilfords in UX 111 come from ?

[JephYork]

I believe that in Ms. Marvel #19, they show up and mention that they were in the crowd at the circus during UX #111.

-Jeph!

[michel]

That's correct, Ethan mentions Nightcrawler as "a real demon, forked toes, tail an' all !". Thanks

[michel]

Back to this UX 111-BTS. For Ethan Wilford, it's placed in between CM 50 and 55 :

WILFORD, ETHAN
CM 48
CM 49
CM 50
UX 111-BTS
CM 55
MSM 19

But for Beast, UX 111 is after A 172 :

BEAST/HENRY "HANK" P. MCCOY
A 171
A 172
M/TU 69
A 172-BTS
M/TU 70-BTS
UX 112 (4:2 - 4:4)-FB-OP
UX 111-FB
UX 112 (4:5)-FB-OP
CX 17 (1 - 3:2)
UX 112 (5:1)-FB
UX 111 (1 - 3)

and for Iron Man, A 172 is after CM 56 :

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
A@ 7
M/TIO@ 2
CM 56
M/SH3 13
M/SH3 13/2
A 167
A 168
IM 109
IM 110
IM 111
IM 112
DEF 58
DRSTR2 29
A 170
A 171
A 172
M/TU 70-BTS
A 173

So, proposed chronology :

WILFORD, ETHAN
CM 48
CM 49
CM 50
* UX 111-BTS moved from here
CM 55
* UX 111-BTS moved here
MSM 19

[Russ Chappell]

Back to this UX 111-BTS. For Ethan Wilford, it's placed in between CM 50 and 55 :

You confuse me. You say "Back to this UX 111-BTS," but this is the first mention of UX 111.

[Russ Chappell]

In every case, the books have been checked

Michel,

You cannot make a blanket statement at the top of the thread, and then post additional corrections, as weeks pass, and still have this disclaimer apply. This is equivalent to saying, "From now on, don't question whether I've looked at the books to verify any claims that I may make in the future." It doesn't work that way. If you're pointing out an error, clarify whether you've gone to the books to verify that the current listings are, in fact, impossible.

[JephYork]

You confuse me. You say "Back to this UX 111-BTS," but this is the first mention of UX 111.

Nope, it was brought up three posts above.

-Jeph!

[Russ Chappell]

Ah, thanks!

[michel]

I've told I checked the Captain Marvel issues and MSM 19 when I separated the two Elizabeth Wilford, and added Mac-Ronn and Tara's chronologies ten days ago. Jeph clarified where the UX 111-BTS comes from. I worked today on the Ms. Marvel serie and found out incidentally that CM 55 was before UX 111, and not after as in Ethan's chronology. I remembered Ethan's apparitions from my checking ten days ago, so I know UX 111-BTS and CM 55 can be swap in his chronology.

Russ, I understood you don't want me to make blind statements. My comics' collection is split in two, and I only have access to my Essentials the week-end. When I find inconsistencies in a chronology during the week, I wait until Friday evening to check the books. That's the case right now, I've already spotted five cases since Monday but I won't post them until I've checked the books. But in Ethan's case, I already did it.

[Paul Bourcier]

michel wrote:

MENTALLO II/MARVIN FLUMM
ST 141
ST 142
ST 143
DD 121-BTS
DD 122-BTS
DD 123
* M/SPT 32 (7:1)-FB moved here
* S-W:O 2 moved here
* M/SPT 32 (7:2)-FB moved here
M/TIO 26
M/TIO 27
* M/SPT 32 (7:1)-FB moved from here
* S-W:O 2 moved from here
* M/SPT 32 (7:2)-FB moved from here
CA 238-FB
MICRO 25-FB
MICRO 24

Maybe my notes are faulty, but doesn't Mentallo also appear in M/TIO 27-FB, which also features Spider-Man immediately after M/TU 46? This occurs sometime between DD 123 and M/TIO 26, but I don't know how it would fall relative to your suggested moves.