Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

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Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:15 pm

Paradise X: Heralds #1
Appearances:
X-51(Earth X), Wolverine 2013, Colossus 2013, Storm 2013, Hyperion(new), Spider-Girl(new), Deathlok(Luther Manning), Killraven, Bloodstorm(Mutant X), Iron Man 2020(Arno Stark), Uatu(Earth X), Brute(Reed Richards of Counter-Earth)

Synopsis:
Pg1
Days of Future Past. Wolverine, Colossus, & Storm approach the Baxter Building. This repeats dialogue from various panels of Uncanny 142 pgs 7 & 8, no new information.
Pg2
Repeat of Uncanny 142 pg17, no new information.
Pg3
Colossus & Storm lay dead, Wolverine’s skeleton is nearby, a Monolith appears. This would follow the end of Uncanny 142, as well as Uncanny 202-FB.
Pg4-pg5pn1
Wolverine wakes up on the moon and is greeted by X-51, who explains he brought Wolverine back to life using the table Merlyn used to bring Captain Britain back to life a few times.
Pg5pn2-pg5pn3-FB
X-51 reconstructs Wolverine’s body.
Pg5pn4-pg5
Wolverine recognizes this as the Watcher’s home and X-51 introduces him to the team he’s assembled.
Pg6pn1-FB
Hyperion is older with grey receding hair, wearing a black suit. He’s seen right after his Squadron Supreme was killed by the human populace of his world when they launched a nuclear strike. He’s the only survivor.
Pg6pn2-FB
Spider-Girl is wearing the MC2 suit. She’s seen as a young girl with her parents.(Mary Jane and Peter, who’s later revealed to be a clone in her world)
Pg7pn1-FB
Deathlok/Luther Manning. He’s seen in an image that looks a lot like the cover to Astonishing Tales 25.
Pg7pn2-FB
Killraven. His world is seen as it’s attacked by the Martians. Only Martians appear.
Pg8pn1
Wolverine is shocked to see Ororo.
Pg8pn2-FB
Ororo is Bloodstorm, a vampire from the Mutant X world. She’s seen being attacked by Dracula.
Pg8pn3-FB
Iron Man 2020. He’s seen beating the piss out of Machine Man 2020.
Pg9-pg23
X-51 gives the group a recap of Earth X & Universe X, then explains that he’s brought them together to warn the Reed Richards of alternate worlds of the Celestial seed growing inside each of their Earths. By helping him, he offers to help achieve what each gathered person desires most. X-51 & Hyperion go to a world ruled by Kulan Gath, Reed Richards has been executed. Deathlok & Killraven go to a world ruled by Satyrnin. Bloodstorm & Iron Man 2020 go to a world where everyone’s a vampire. Wolverine & Spider-Girl go to a world where Reed Richards is President, but he’s actually the Brute of Counter-Earth!(revealed next issue)

Paradise X: Heralds #2
Appearances:
X-51(Earth X), Wolverine 2013, Hyperion(new), Spider-Girl(new), Deathlok(Luther Manning), Killraven, Bloodstorm(Mutant X), Iron Man 2020(Arno Stark), Uatu(Earth X), Brute(Reed Richards of Counter-Earth)

Synopsis:
Pg1-pg17
Hyperion kills all of Kulan Gath’s men, and then Kulan Gath when it’s revealed the Celestial embryo is where he’d been getting his power. He & X-51 leave. Satyrnin greets Killraven and Deathlok, she makes a pass at Killraven and Deathlok leaves. Bloodstorm and Iron Man 2020 chat with the vampire Reed Richards and Mole Man. They give their warning and leave, Reed & Mole Man blow up the core of their Earth, destroying the planet. Wolverine & Spider-Girl fight the Brute and are saved by Namor and the Invisible Woman. They give a bit of history of their world.
Pg18-FB
The Brute travelled to this world and killed the Fantastic Four(Reed, Thing & Spider-man) and took Reed’s place. Following Fantastic Four Unlimited #3.
Pg19-pg22
Namor & Sue reveal they already took care of the Celestial Embryo, so Wolverine & Spider-Girl leave. Everyone but Killraven appear back on the moon, where a bunch of Watchers have gathered to kill Uatu.

Paradise X: Heralds #3
Appearances:
X-51(Earth X), Wolverine 2013, Hyperion(new), Spider-Girl(new), Deathlok(Luther Manning), Killraven, Bloodstorm(Mutant X), Iron Man 2020(Arno Stark), Uatu(Earth X)

Synopsis:
Pg1
The Watchers confront X-51’s group.
Pg2-pg3-FB
Uatu makes his presence known to the Thing.
Pg4-pg7
The group moves Uatu away from the gathered Watchers.
Pg8-FB
Black Bolt prepares to blind Uatu.
Pg9-pg22
Killraven reappears and X-51 tricks the gathered Watchers into returning to their own realities through the Monolith, but on Earth instead of on the moon. Now that the various alternate Earths know they’re being watched they will figure out what they need to do. Now that their job is done, X-51 can go about giving the group members what they wanted: Wolverine a world where his friends are still alive. Bloodstorm a cure to her vampirism. Spider-Girl to meet a version of her dad. Iron Man 2020 to get out of the shadow of Tony Stark. Killraven to find a way to defeat the Martians. Deathlok a way to turn off his computer. Hyperion to find a way to kill himself.

References:
Three worlds are given as examples when the Watchers returns to their realities.

Avengers of the 50’s, their world has been taken over by Skrulls. Marvel Boy, Human Robot, Venus, Gorilla-Man, & 3-D Man appear.

The Fantastic Four are Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Flo Steinberg, and someone else. I remember this from someplace… the Assistant Editor’s month issue of What If…?, maybe? Or What The…!?!?

President Steve Rogers and General Nick Fury, Fury’s in a space uniform. Was this an issue of What If..??

As far as I can tell, Killraven & Deathlok are from their established timelines. However, I know next to nothing about them, so I have no idea where to place these guys. Killraven eventually returns to his own time happy with the knowledge that at least a world will defeat the Martians, even if it’s not his own. So really, anywhere for him. Deathlok has a new body grown for him by X-51, free of cybernetic implants, but it’s not shown if he ever gets to use it. I have no idea, but sometime before he becomes the Demolisher at least.

Arno Stark is trying to get out from under Tony’s Shadow, and eventually leaves with a Guardians of the Galaxy to help with radiation treatments. There’s a FlashBack where he has another encounter with Machine Man 2020 in an issue of Paradise X where Arno accidentally set off an atom bomb, so I would say after his Death’s Head appearances, and before the Iron Man 2020 one-shot.

Bloodstorm wants to find a cure, and receives a blood transfusion from the earth X Storm in Paradise X. She is later cured over in Mutant X, so I guess the transfusion didn’t work out as planned. Sometime before Mutant X 27, then.

Wolverine is after his death in Uncanny 142.

Spider-Girl & Hyperion are new versions, so it’s irrelevant.

Some placement suggestions:

Days of Future Past:

COLOSSUS 2013

{UX 141}
UX 142
UX 202-FB
*PARX: H 1

STORM 2013

{UX 141}
UX 142
UX 202-FB
*PARX: H 1

WOLVERINE 2013

{UX 141}
UX 142
UX 202-FB
*PARX: H 1 (3)
*PARX: H 1-FB
*PARX: H 1 (4-23)
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3


Earth X:

BLACK BOLT
EARX 0-FB
EARX 9 (2-3)-FB
EARX 2-FB-BTS
*PARX: H 3-FB
UNIX 7-FB
EARX 9 (4-5)-FB
EARX 9 (20-21)-FB
EARX 3-FB
EARX 1
...

MACHINE MAN/X-51/AARON STACK
...
UNIX 12
UNIX X
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3


THING/BEN GRIMM
EARX 2 (2)-FB
EARX 0 (36-37)-FB
EARX 2 (3)-FB
EARX 11-FB
4 (7-8)-FB
*PARX: H 3-FB
EARX 2 (4-5)-FB
EARX 0 (40-41)-FB
UNIX 0-FB
UNIX 5-FB
EARX 2 (10-14)-FB
EARX 2
...

UATU
UNIX 6-FB
*PARX: H 3 (2-3)-FB
EARX 2-FB
*PARX: H 3 (8)-FB
UNIX 7-FB
EARX 0
EARX 1
...
UNIX 7
UNIX X
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3


2020:

IRON MAN/ARNO STARK | 2020
ASM @20
S-H3 3
AWC 61
AVF 11
AVF 12-OP
{MM2 2}
MM2 3 (1-20)
TCORPS 2
MM2 3 (21)
FF 405
MM2 3 (22-23)
MM2 4 (1-15)
*PARX: H 1-FB
MM2 4 (16-23)
DH 9
DH 10
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3

IM2020
D2099 25

MACHINE MAN | 2020
MM2 1
MM2 2
MM2 3 (1-20)
TCORPS 2
MM2 3 (21-23)
MM2 4 (1-15)
*PARX: H 1-FB
MM2 4 (16-23)

Others:

BLOODSTORM II/ORORO MUNROE | MUTANT X-VERSE
MX 12-FB
*PARX: H 1-FB
MX 13
MX '00
{MX 1}
MX 2

MX 12
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3

MX 15
MX 16


HYPERION (new)
PARX: H 1-FB
PARX: H 1
PARX: H 2
PARX: H 3

SPIDER-GIRL/MAY PARKER (new)
PARX: H 1-FB
PARX: H 1
PARX: H 2
PARX: H 3

BRUTE/REED RICHARDS COUNTER-EARTH
...
FF 182
FF 183
FFU 3-FB
FFU 3
*PARX: H 2-FB
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2


KILLRAVEN/JONATHAN RAVEN

PARX: H 1
PARX: H 2
PARX: H 3


DEATHLOK/COLONEL LUTHER MANNING

PARX: H 1-FB

PARX: H 1
PARX: H 2
PARX: H 3


Up eventually: Paradise X! Eventually.
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Somebody » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:31 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Arno Stark is trying to get out from under Tony’s Shadow, and eventually leaves with a Guardians of the Galaxy to help with radiation treatments. There’s a FlashBack where he has another encounter with Machine Man 2020 in an issue of Paradise X where Arno accidentally set off an atom bomb, so I would say after his Death’s Head appearances, and before the Iron Man 2020 one-shot.
Speaking from a position of complete ignorance outside of this paragraph, why not just say "last appearance to date" then?
Col_Fury wrote:Bloodstorm wants to find a cure, and receives a blood transfusion from the earth X Storm in Paradise X. She is later cured over in Mutant X, so I guess the transfusion didn’t work out as planned. Sometime before Mutant X 27, then.
Well, I don't see how a blood transfusion is meant to cure a vampire anyway, rather than just give them their meal for the day...

And, to keep it all to one post, did you code Universe X as "Unix" deliberately, or was that just something you skipped over? :)

And you realise that that "4" code is never going to stick for 4: A Universe X Special, ja? Even the MU series "4" got coded FOUR.

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:59 pm

Somebody wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:Arno Stark is trying to get out from under Tony’s Shadow, and eventually leaves with a Guardians of the Galaxy to help with radiation treatments. There’s a FlashBack where he has another encounter with Machine Man 2020 in an issue of Paradise X where Arno accidentally set off an atom bomb, so I would say after his Death’s Head appearances, and before the Iron Man 2020 one-shot.
Speaking from a position of complete ignorance outside of this paragraph, why not just say "last appearance to date" then?
The 2020 one-shot was where Arno finally got out from under Tony's shadow and became a hero in his own right. Placing this after the one-shot would be back-pedalling his character development. It's not completely out of the question, but I'd rather not.
Somebody wrote:I don't see how a blood transfusion is meant to cure a vampire anyway,
Yeah, I didn't get it either.
Somebody wrote:And, to keep it all to one post, did you code Universe X as "Unix" deliberately, or was that just something you skipped over? :)
Heh. Nope, didn't even occur to me. I was originally going to use EX, UX, & PX, but EX was already taken, so I switched it to EARX, UNIX, & PARX.
Somebody wrote:And you realise that that "4" code is never going to stick for 4: A Universe X Special, ja? Even the MU series "4" got coded FOUR.
It gets the point across. *shrug* I will point out that the indicia is only "4"... it doesn't have "A Universe X Special" in it. Once we get to Cap the indicia says Universe X: Cap, and that's the format that's used for all of the Paradise X specials and minis. Also, only the minis have numbers, the one-shots don't have "#1" on their covers.

I suppose they could be switched to UNIX: F,(to avoid confusion with #4 of UNIX) UNIX: S, UNIX: C, & UNIX: IM, if only to match the Paradise X specials...
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by SeanCurtin » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:24 pm

Col_Fury wrote:The Fantastic Four are Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Flo Steinberg, and someone else. I remember this from someplace… the Assistant Editor’s month issue of What If…?, maybe? Or What The…!?!?
What If vol. 1 #11, "What If The Marvel Bullpen Became The Fantastic Four?" The 'someone else' is Sol Brodsky.
Col_Fury wrote:President Steve Rogers and General Nick Fury, Fury’s in a space uniform. Was this an issue of What If..??
Possibly What If vol. 1 #14, "What If Sgt. Fury Fought World War II In Space?", although I don't recall Steve Rogers being President in that one. I suppose that Steve's office coupled with Fury's rank would place that scene quite a few years after the original What If story.

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:13 am

*digs into my What If...?s to check*

Hey, look at that! Thanks for confirming I'm not crazy yet, Sean!

At the very least, this would give us:

MISTER FANTASTIC/STAN LEE
WI? 11
PARX: H 3

THING/JACK KIRBY
WI? 11
PARX: H 3

INVISIBLE GIRL/FLO STEINBERG
WI? 11
PARX: H 3

HUMAN TORCH/SOL BRODSKY
WI? 11
PARX: H 3

Maybe with a 'BULLPEN-VERSE' note or something.

Since I was in that box anyway, I pulled out What If...? 9 and re-read that as well as this sweet thread. Seeing as how they pulled out the Bullpen Fantastic Four for this mini, AND the Brute/Reed Richards of Counter-Earth, it stands to reason that this group is the same group, so:

3-D MAN II
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5
*PARX: H 3

GORILLA-MAN II
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5
*PARX: H 3

HUMAN ROBOT II
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5
*PARX: H 3

MARVEL BOY IV/ROBERT GRAYSON
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5
*PARX: H 3

VENUS III
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5
*PARX: H 3

I also sat down and read What If...? 14.
SeanCurtin wrote:Possibly What If vol. 1 #14, "What If Sgt. Fury Fought World War II In Space?", although I don't recall Steve Rogers being President in that one. I suppose that Steve's office coupled with Fury's rank would place that scene quite a few years after the original What If story.
As it turns out, Steve wasn't in it at all. I'm going to suggest that this is the same world, given the examples above.

FURY, GENERAL NICK
WI? 14
PARX: H 3

DUGAN, DUM DUM
WI? 14
PARX: H 3

Anyone have any ideas on KIllraven & Deathlok?
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Somebody » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:35 am

UH... the 50s Avengers' universe gets wiped out by Immortus in Avengers Forever #5. You really can't place an appearance of those versions later.

It may be intended as a sequel to WI? 9, but if so it's a divergent version from the one seen in AvF #4-5.

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:22 pm

Did Immortus erase those events from 616 history, or from existence entirely? Either way, could we take this appearance as confirmation that they still exist SOMEWHERE in the multiverse? You're right though, that this appearance would have to follow Avengers Forever, in that only Nixon was replaced there and in Heralds the world had already been taken over.

I had a chance to flip through some friend's Deathlok v2 comics, and some Deathlok appearances that I have in other comics. As we have it now:

DEATHLOK/COLONEL LUTHER MANNING
AT 25
AT 26
AT 27
AT 28
AT 30
AT 31
AT 32
AT 33
AT 34
AT 35
AT 36
M/TU 46
AT 36
M/SPT 33
M/TIO 26
M/TIO 27
M/TIO 28
M/TIO 34
CA 286
CA 287
CA 288
M/FAN 4/2
M/CP 62/4
DLOK 1

See Demolisher
DEMOLISHER II/COLONEL LUTHER MANNING
(From Deathlok)
DLOK2 31
DLOK2 32
DLOK2 33
DLOK2 34

DD 335
DD 336
DD 337

CA 288 ends with Luther Manning, having met Captain America, in a new state of mind; he's feeling good about himself.

I have no idea what happens in Marvel Fanfare #4.

Marvel Comics Presents 62/4 is a prelude to the prestige format 4-issue mini that introduces Michael Collins. Cybertek is test-running a Deathlok, but he's name-checked as John Kelly. The issue ends with John Kelly being prepared for a brain transplant, which happens at the start of Deathlok #1. There is no appearance by Luther Manning in either of these comics and they need to be removed from his chronology. John Kelly DOES appear in Deathlok #1, but it's not in his chronology. Seeing as how it follows M/CP 62/4...

DEATHLOK II/COL. JOHN KELLY
DLOK2 17-FB
DLOK2 14-FB
{M/CP 62/4}
*DLOK 1
DLOK2 17
DLOK2 18
See Siege

There's a mention somewhere(I forget which issue) in DLOK2 31-34 that Manning's computer crashed and he started calling himself just the Demolisher. It looks like these Paradise X appearances would be Manning's last appearances as Deathlok; something went wrong with his new body and his computer crashed in an unrevealed story. So...

DEATHLOK/COLONEL LUTHER MANNING
*PARX: H 1-FB
{AT 25}
AT 26
...
CA 287
CA 288
M/FAN 4/2
**M/CP 62/4 < - delete, that's not him
**DLOK 1 < - delete, that's not him

*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3

See Demolisher

From memory, my friend says that AT 25 starts with Luther Manning already as Deathlok, so it looks like the PARX: H 1-FB/AT 25 cover image is his 'origin sequence'.

As for Killraven, the only appearance of his that I have is Marvel Team-Up 45; it ends with Spider-Man returning to his own time and Killraven thinking about the past and possible futures. This seems like as good a place as any to drop Heralds in, so...

KILLRAVEN/JONATHAN RAVEN
...
AA2 33
AA2 34
M/TU 45
*PARX: H 1
*PARX: H 2
*PARX: H 3

AA2 35
AA2 36
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Somebody » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:41 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Somebody wrote:UH... the 50s Avengers' universe gets wiped out by Immortus in Avengers Forever #5. You really can't place an appearance of those versions later.

It may be intended as a sequel to WI? 9, but if so it's a divergent version from the one seen in AvF #4-5.
Did Immortus erase those events from 616 history, or from existence entirely? Either way, could we take this appearance as confirmation that they still exist SOMEWHERE in the multiverse? You're right though, that this appearance would have to follow Avengers Forever, in that only Nixon was replaced there and in Heralds the world had already been taken over.
Ummm...
"the 50s Avengers' universe gets wiped out by Immortus in Avengers Forever #5. You really can't place an appearance of those versions later."
"You're right though, that this appearance would have to follow Avengers Forever"

I think a wire's been crossed in there somewhere.

Immortus didn't erase the events, he used the Forever Crystal to end the timeline. As in, he pruned it so that the end of the universe was on such-and-such a date, 1950-something. [futureGenis, Wasp and Rick (in the Sphinx) react as such - Wasp goes on about cold-blooded murder, Genis says alternate versions of them still exist, Rick just rants at them to get out before they get wiped out with the collapsing universe.] There is no later for events to occur.

What you might still have is a divergent timeline where the timeline branches BETWEEN WI? 9 and AVF 4, where (e.g.) instead of the infiltration approach Immortus exposes in AVF 4, the Skrulls abandon that before that point and just brute-force a win, and that could be the version shown in PARX:H. But you can't place the PARX:H appearance on a timeline with AVF 4.

[Agents of Atlas #1, of course, shows us the actual MU ("616" if you must) version of WI? 9, where M-11 was retrieved with a crane (and wasn't trying to kill an infinity of men in rooms, because that hadn't happened in the MU), Venus was a siren, Gorilla Man looks like an actual gorilla rather than a.. uh... whatever the original version was meant to look like, 3D-Man wasn't involved, there was no set of low-rent supervillains under the Claw's, etc]

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:56 pm

Somebody wrote:Immortus didn't erase the events, he used the Forever Crystal to end the timeline. As in, he pruned it so that the end of the universe was on such-and-such a date, 1950-something. [futureGenis, Wasp and Rick (in the Sphinx) react as such - Wasp goes on about cold-blooded murder, Genis says alternate versions of them still exist, Rick just rants at them to get out before they get wiped out with the collapsing universe.] There is no later for events to occur.
Ah-ha. Got it.
Somebody wrote:What you might still have is a divergent timeline where the timeline branches BETWEEN WI? 9 and AVF 4, where (e.g.) instead of the infiltration approach Immortus exposes in AVF 4, the Skrulls abandon that before that point and just brute-force a win, and that could be the version shown in PARX:H. But you can't place the PARX:H appearance on a timeline with AVF 4.
That I actually like, in that Uatu was watching that world in What If...? #9, but a different Watcher returned to that world in Heralds #3. It's a different Watcher because it's a different divergence.

Hrmn. Would it be kosher to list it like this for all five:

3-D MAN II
WI? 9
AVF 4
AVF 5

3-D MAN III
WI? 9
PARX: H 3

But that's strange, as only one group of them appeared in WI? 9. I dunno.
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Somebody » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:21 pm

Col_Fury wrote:That I actually like, in that Uatu was watching that world in What If...? #9, but a different Watcher returned to that world in Heralds #3. It's a different Watcher because it's a different divergence.
That was the MU Uatu in WI? 9, not a native-to-50Avworld Uatu. As shown in a few non-WI? books (like Quasar), Uatu really DOES spend much of his time looking through other timelines. 'Cause the MU-Earth isn't interesting enough, even when he's watching Reed & Sue have sex¹.
Col_Fury wrote:Hrmn. Would it be kosher to list it like this for all five:
[...]
But that's strange, as only one group of them appeared in WI? 9. I dunno.
It'd go against precedent anyway - even where divergent versions have entries, they don't generally get pre-divergent issues in their own entry, nor a note for where they branched off.
Col_Fury wrote:There's a mention somewhere(I forget which issue) in DLOK2 31-34 that Manning's computer crashed and he started calling himself just the Demolisher. It looks like these Paradise X appearances would be Manning's last appearances as Deathlok; something went wrong with his new body and his computer crashed in an unrevealed story.
Wasn't there an early Deathlok story involving a clone of him being created, and the attempt to transfer him into it led to... a clone of him with his memories, and the original just standing there, completely unchanged? Could that have happened again here? Because the point seems to be to get a body WITHOUT a computer/cyborg implants/etc.

¹Fantastic Four: 40th Wedding Anniversary Special

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:46 pm

Somebody wrote:Wasn't there an early Deathlok story involving a clone of him being created, and the attempt to transfer him into it led to... a clone of him with his memories, and the original just standing there, completely unchanged? Could that have happened again here?
It's possible, but I don't have any AT issues to check and my friend only has the DLOK2 issues. I have the DLOK prestige format mini. There is a chronology for a Deathlok Robot in M/TIO 53 & 54, but I don't have those either.
Somebody wrote:Because the point seems to be to get a body WITHOUT a computer/cyborg implants/etc.
Right, that's what Luther wants/wanted.

There was something about a second Luther Manning in the DLOK2 issues, but he was created by the villain of the story... through time travel or something. I don't think that's the plot you're thinking of, though. Maybe it's in M/TIO 53 & 54?

But yes, it's possible that the body X-51 provided ended up as a Luther Manning with Deathlok's memories, but Deathlok himself(original Manning) remained unaffected.
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Somebody » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:17 pm

Found this, apparently from AT 35, which seems to be what I was thinking of:

Image

SeanCurtin
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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by SeanCurtin » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:56 pm

Col_Fury wrote:There was something about a second Luther Manning in the DLOK2 issues, but he was created by the villain of the story... through time travel or something.
That was the modern-day Earth-616 Luther Manning, not the original future-timeline Manning.

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Peter Fabricius » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:09 am

Col_Fury wrote: CA 288 ends with Luther Manning, having met Captain America, in a new state of mind; he's feeling good about himself.

I have no idea what happens in Marvel Fanfare #4.
The Marvel Fanfare story has Deathlok being held prisoner by SHIELD, experiencing an dream scenario, that is being created by the scientists examining him.

That they are SHIELD personnel can be seen from insignia on their clothes, but is not stated in the story.

This would seem to indicate the it occurs after M/TIO 34, where SHIELD takes control of him, and before CA 286 where Brand / Roxxon controls him.
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

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Re: Paradise X: Heralds 1-3

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:57 pm

SeanCurtin wrote:That was the modern-day Earth-616 Luther Manning
That's right... And wasn't there a bit where Deathlok/Manning realized that this Manning wouldn't turn out to be him, for some reason, and that their meeting created a point of divergence? I'm going off memory here, and I read them quickly, so I'm probably wrong.
Peter Fabricius wrote:This would seem to indicate the story occurs after M/TIO 34, where SHIELD takes control of him, and before CA 286 where Brand / Roxxon controls him.
That makes sense to me:

DEATHLOK/COLONEL LUTHER MANNING
...
M/TIO 34
**M/FAN 4/2 (move to here)
CA 286
CA 287
CA 288
**M/FAN 4/2 (move from here)
PARX: H 1
PARX: H 2
PARX: H 3
See Demolisher

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