X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

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X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by Somebody » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:19 pm

In case you're wondering why I list the title as such:
Jeff Parker, [url]http://www.parkerspace.com/2007/10/29/halloween-x/[/url], wrote:The next issue [#6] begins what is technically a two part main story, but is essentially a three parter that has the teen mutants run into the weirdness of the Man-Thing by issue 8.
Although he also says:
Jeff Parker, [url]http://www.parkerspace.com/2007/11/07/back-to-savannah/[/url], wrote:I don’t usually mention layouts I get from artists because that stage happens so far in advance of print time, but I just saw most of Eric Nguyen’s breakdowns for his X-Men First Class issue 8 and now I’m even more excited about that story. It’s the one featuring the Man-Thing, and it’s going to be GREAT. In general the whole book starts getting the drama stepped up as of issue 6 (and Roger Cruz just went the hell off in his two part story, as you’ll see) and I’m generally giddy about the whole four issue arc.
I think the extension to #9 might be via the backup(s?), since that's the Black Widow/Jean/Wanda story, and there's another Jean/Wanda story in the back of #6 (well, it should be. Screwed-up printing puts it in the middle...)

ANYway. Preview of #6: http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/ ... i?id=12460

Later, there's lots of Sentinels in the story. BIG-style Sentinels at that... (oh, and talking Cerebro, but not the Big Round Room. And, chronology aside, the best Cyclops scene in yoinks.) And a reference to Wanda & Pietro being on Long Island, which may be in reference to their status quo in the backup.

The backup follows from the #3 backup, also referencing X:FC 7, and has Jean & Wanda vs. the Mole Man and a "Mysterio Escapes!" newspaper headline, referenced in dialogue; and a reference to the X-Men's trip to Monster Island.

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by metaldragon » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:27 am

Somebody wrote:I think the extension to #9 might be via the backup(s?), since that's the Black Widow/Jean/Wanda story, and there's another Jean/Wanda story in the back of #6 (well, it should be. Screwed-up printing puts it in the middle...)

Later, there's lots of Sentinels in the story. BIG-style Sentinels at that... (oh, and talking Cerebro, but not the Big Round Room. And, chronology aside, the best Cyclops scene in yoinks.) And a reference to Wanda & Pietro being on Long Island, which may be in reference to their status quo in the backup.

The backup follows from the #3 backup, also referencing X:FC 7, and has Jean & Wanda vs. the Mole Man and a "Mysterio Escapes!" newspaper headline, referenced in dialogue; and a reference to the X-Men's trip to Monster Island.
Yea, they did screw up the binding of X:FC2 6: the middle section (Professor X mentally scans comet, Jean & Wanda back-up story) should go at the beginning and end while the beginning and end bits with the Sentinels should be in the middle. Very weird.

Since a Sentinel appears in X:FC 5 and they react like this is the first time they've encountered one since their original story in UX 14-16 I'd tentatively place this story after that and just before UX 40, at least until we see where this story arc is going and if there are more definate references to work from.

Looks like the Marvel Girl and Scarlet Witch back-up squeezes in the spot before UX 14 (and before SW and Quicksliver join the Avengers.)
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Post by Somebody » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:00 pm

Trying to figure out here - is this the current way the stories are arranged?

UX 2
X:FC2 5
X:FC2 5/2
UX 3
[...]
UX 8
X:FC 6
UX 9
[...]
UX 13
X:FC 7
X:FC2 2
X:FC2 3
X:FC2 3/2
X:FC2 6/2
X:FC2 4
X:FCS/5
UX 14

[...]
UX 18
X:FC 2
X:FC 3
UX 19
[...]
UX 21
X:FC 1
X:FC2 1
X:FC 8
UX 22
[...]
UX 39
X:FC 5
X:FC 4
X:FCS/1
X:FCS/3
UX 40

And something I'm especially wondering about that wasn't brought up in the X:FC2 4 thread - in X:FC 8, Xavier was alone "two weeks" earlier when he discovered the mutant in Africa he went flying after because the X-Men were "on break".

In X:FC2 4, every single one of the X-Men go on a two week break (Cyclops kayaking with Havok, Jean to Switzerland with her parents, Angel to Maine, and Beast & Iceman [at Xavier's prompting] on a road trip)... except Xavier. We don't see them return - the issue ends with Bobby & Hank still away, and getting a phone call from Angel, worried about his car, and no mention of Cyke, Jean or X.

Pieces seem to fit.

(for own reference:

X-Men: First Class
X-Men: First Class canon?
Placement of X-Men: First Class
X-Men: First Class Special 1
X-Men: First Class v2 #4
X-Men First Class v2 #5)

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Post by TheDeuce » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:09 am

thanks for the list there Somebody. it helped me update my x-men reading order.

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Post by Mikhail » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Wasn't Man-Thing uncreated until 1971? Shortly before his crossover with Ka-Zar in Astonishing Tales, which established his origin firmly in 1970's Marvel as opposed to First Class's 1960's Marvel?

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Post by dimadick » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:25 pm

"Shortly before his crossover with Ka-Zar in Astonishing Tales"

1) In "Savage Tales" vol. 1 #1 (May, 1971), Ted Sallis completes his variant of the super-soldier serum. Only for his wife Ellen Brandt to betray him to AIM and pursue him with other operatives of the organization. He injects himself with the serum and the combinations of its effects and the mystical properties of the swamp turn him into Man-Thing.

The tale is directly followed by the flashback portions of "Astonishing Tales" #12 (June, 1972). Which reveals that he was not a lone operative but part of the larger Project:Gladiator. Introducing his colleagues Dr. Wilma Calvin (head of the project), Dr. Paul Allen (an AIM agent), Dr. Roberta Morse (a SHIELD agent, her name later retconned to Barbara Morse for whatever reason), Dr. Wendell and a lab assistant just known as Jim.

The flashback has Calvin and Morse searching for Sallis in the swamp. They ran into trouble with a mob of locals accusing them of creating a monster, AIM agents still after the serum and Man-Thing helping his old friends. Trying to communicate with them and realising he can not. Calvin is seriously wounded and falls into a coma by the end of the narration.

The search in the swamp suggests that Sallis missing in action was still a very recent event. Man-Thing gets his introduction to a crowd and learns he can not speak. His condition is new even to him.

The present portion of the issue has Morse bringing Ka-Zar. Calvin is in a coma for "several weeks". Enough time for the shared Plunder-Morse adventures since "Astonishing Tales" #6 (June, 1971).

If the "First Class" crossover is accepted as canon, it could fit in the period between the "Astonishing Tales" flashback and the introduction of Morse to Ka-Zar. Pushing the "Savage Tales" origin further back in time, enough to account for several X-Men stories which preceeded it in publication time.

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Post by metaldragon » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:21 pm

Somebody wrote:Trying to figure out here - is this the current way the stories are arranged?

UX 2
X:FC2 5
X:FC2 5/2
UX 3
[...]
UX 8
X:FC 6
UX 9
[...]
UX 13
X:FC 7
X:FC2 2
X:FC2 3
X:FC2 3/2
X:FC2 6/2
X:FC2 4
X:FCS/5
UX 14

[...]
UX 18
X:FC 2
X:FC 3
UX 19
[...]
UX 21
X:FC 1
X:FC2 1
X:FC 8
UX 22
[...]
UX 39
X:FC 5
X:FC 4
X:FCS/1
X:FCS/3
UX 40

And something I'm especially wondering about that wasn't brought up in the X:FC2 4 thread - in X:FC 8, Xavier was alone "two weeks" earlier when he discovered the mutant in Africa he went flying after because the X-Men were "on break".

In X:FC2 4, every single one of the X-Men go on a two week break (Cyclops kayaking with Havok, Jean to Switzerland with her parents, Angel to Maine, and Beast & Iceman [at Xavier's prompting] on a road trip)... except Xavier. We don't see them return - the issue ends with Bobby & Hank still away, and getting a phone call from Angel, worried about his car, and no mention of Cyke, Jean or X.

Pieces seem to fit.
Sorry, first chance I had to sit down and double check your list...

Has the placement for X:FCS/5 been moved to right before UX 14 to make Cyclops' line "I was afraid my attack upon Juggernaut had strained my powers beyond repair!" make sense again? I think we originally had it placed after the UX 18, X:FC 2 & 3 series of events to explain when Juggernaut might have escaped the mansion in order for them to re-capture him with the help of Dragon Man.

X:FC2 4 cannot go before UX 14 because it makes Angel's line about vacations: “our first one in years” make no sense whatsoever. My placement: right after X:FC 2 & 3. This is simply a continuation of the vacation that began in X:FC 2. Which, of course is simply a continuation of the one that was interrupted in UX 14!

Actually, since you mention the "break" the X-Men were on 2 weeks before the beginning of X:FC 8, it's possible it could go after X:FC2 4... Still, the main problem is with the fully functional Cerebro. I think this a toss up between the UX 21 & 22 placement and after X:FC 4 one because Xavier mentions in UX 22 that their last vacation (in UX 19) was interrupted by the Mimic (which makes it's current placement a bit awkward but explainable). I suppose the final word would have to be Jeff Parker's if someone asks him. lol! (Personally, I like the current placement, but that's just me.)

My updated placement for X:FC2 1 is right before UX 19 which is the first time Marvel Girl is shown levitating in the Danger Room. Cyclops chastises her for practicing outside the Danger Room at the beginning of X:FC2 1.

Otherwise looks pretty good. Did you need placements for the flashbacks? I notice you didn't list them.
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Post by metaldragon » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:58 pm

With those changes and flashbacks included, should look something like this:

UX 2
X:FC2 5
X:FC2 5/2
UX 3
[...]
UX 7
X:FC 1-FB
UX 7

UX 8
X:FC 6
UX 9
[...]
UX 13
X:FC 7-FB
XMF 3

X:FC 7
X:FC2 2
X:FC2 3
X:FC2 3/2-FB
X:FC2 3/2
X:FC2 6/2
X:FCS/5 (new placement?) EDIT: doesn't work- Sentinel
UX 14
[...]
UX 18
X:FC 2
X:FC 3
X:FC2 4
X:FCS/5 (original placement)
X:FC2 1

UX 19
[...]
UX 21
X:FC 1
X:FC 8-FB
X:FC 8
UX 22
[...]
UX 39
X:FC 5
X:FC 4
X:FCS/1
X:FCS/3
UX 40
Last edited by metaldragon on Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by metaldragon » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:46 pm

Just double checked the analysis of X-Men: First Class Special 1, there is a Sentinel in the Dragon Man story (or at least the head of one) so it MUST go after UX 18. The "new" placement cannot work.
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Post by metaldragon » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:42 am

I think I have the placement for X:FC2 6 & 7 now that both issues are out. It is set after UX 18 so Wanda and Pietro must be members of the Avengers at this point. I wouldn't place it too long after UX 18 because they mention the original Sentinal encounter as fairly recent but there had to be enough time for 100 Sentinels to be built.

Jean mentions wishing she could still fly at the end of X:FC2 7 so I think it ties nicely with the opening pages of X:FC2 1.

I think I might place these issues just before the Dragon Man story so the Sentinel head there could be from this batch of Sentinels. It's possible Juggernaut escaped the mansion when the Sentinels trashed it here instead of when Magneto did in UX 17-18 which solves the long delay problem of them taking vacations right after UX 18 before searching for Jugs.

With the revised placements it looks something like:

UX 18
X:FC 2
X:FC 3
X:FC2 4
X:FC2 6
X:FC2 7

X:FCS/5
X:FC2 1
UX 19

Does anyone know where Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch might fit in Avengers continuity here? I suppose they could have decided to keep the cabin as a retreat from being Avengers/the public spotlight.
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Post by Somebody » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:42 pm

Remind me, what links Avengers & UX issues in this time period with respect to Wanda & Pietro.

In return, I remind you about the "four issue arc" quote about X:FC2 #6-9 and the solicit for #9 which has Wanda deciding what way to go.

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Post by wolframbane » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:04 pm

Somebody wrote:Remind me, what links Avengers & UX issues in this time period with respect to Wanda & Pietro.
I believe that the appearances of Wanda and Pietro must be after the Stranger dissolved the Brotherhood and before they joined the Avengers.

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Post by Somebody » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:07 pm

wolframbane wrote:
Somebody wrote:Remind me, what links Avengers & UX issues in this time period with respect to Wanda & Pietro.
I believe that the appearances of Wanda and Pietro must be after the Stranger dissolved the Brotherhood and before they joined the Avengers.
Not what I asked - I'm asking what places the Av issues with respect to UX as far as W&P joining the Avs. To take it to extremes, what stops UX 1-(whatever Neal Adams issue that had W&P&Toad swap costumes with the X-Men) all being before Av 16 beyond "common sense"?

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Post by JD » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:56 pm

Somebody wrote:Not what I asked - I'm asking what places the Av issues with respect to UX as far as W&P joining the Avs. To take it to extremes, what stops UX 1-(whatever Neal Adams issue that had W&P&Toad swap costumes with the X-Men) all being before Av 16 beyond "common sense"?
For starters, the UX 43-45/A 53 crossover, which happened 15 issues or so before.

But yeah, maybe we should reexamine this period to see exactly what leeway we have.


[edit] Also, Pietro & Wanda are explicitly stated as already being Avengers in UX 27.

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Post by metaldragon » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:36 pm

Somebody wrote:Remind me, what links Avengers & UX issues in this time period with respect to Wanda & Pietro.

In return, I remind you about the "four issue arc" quote about X:FC2 #6-9 and the solicit for #9 which has Wanda deciding what way to go.
UX 11- Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch quit the Brotherhood

FF@3
Marvels 2

The X-Men appear along side the Avengers which include Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as members there. Since Marvels 2 places the FF wedding on the morning of the Sentinel attack, all appearances of Pietro and Wanda pre-Avengers means pre-UX 14 as well.

If something in the upcoming 2 issues contradicts that, the series may have just pushed itself out of continuity officially.
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