Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

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Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by newtron » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:59 am

This is my first analysis (I think), so please be gentle. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... #1
March 2008
No Title
1 page of reprint material (not counted below) + 22 pages

Characters:
Parkers - Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Uncle Ben, Aunt May
Wrestlers - Crusher Hogan, the Bronx Mangler, the En Fuego Triplets, various unnamed (including possibly the Rumble Sisters)
Wrestling staff - Monty Caabash, various unnamed (including possibly Maxie Shiffman)
Reporters - Gino, various unnamed
Students: Flash Thompson, Liz Allan, various unnamed students
Other: unnamed science exhibit lecturer, unnamed wrestling fans

SMWGP 1 (1). Spider-Man is fighting Crusher Hogan in the ring. Spidey is fully outfitted in his standard red-and-blues.

SMWGP 1 (2-4). Presumably immediately after the fight. Spidey chit chats with fans and reporters before heading into the locker room. Once inside, three men briefly talk to him about his upcoming TV appearance. None of these three appear elsewhere in the comic, so it's unclear who exactly they are and how they fit into the business. One of them has a moustache and wears a hat and could be Maxie Shiffman. Spidey basically ignores these three guys, though, and ends up in conversation with wrestling league owner Monty Caabash. Crusher Hogan, the En Fuego Triplets, the Bronx Mangler and other unnamed wrestlers (including possibly the Rumble Sisters) get chewed out by Monty, before Monty congratulates Spidey and tries to get him to wear a promotional hat on the previously mentioned TV spot. Spidey tells Monty to be nicer to the other wrestlers, but then shoots them down himself when they ask him to hang out.

SMWGP 1 (5). Spidey swings around the city, disrupting some pigeons.

SMWGP 1 (6-7:2). Flashback to before Pete had powers. Flash Thompson gives Pete a wedgie and otherwise humiliates him in the school hallway. Liz is there.

SMWGP 1 (7:3-8). Flashback, probably the evening following that wedgie. Aunt May and Uncle Ben console Pete, and Ben gives Pete an old clunker of a car.

SMWGP 1 (9). Flashback. The science exhibit at which a radioactive spider bites Pete. Contains some new dialogue.

SMWGP 1 (10-11:3). Flashback. Pete uses his new-found powers to run circles around Flash Thompson. New material I believe.

SMWGP 1 (11:4-12). Flashback. The fight with Crusher Hogan. Contains some new material.

SMWGP 1 (13). Flashback. After the fight, Pete collects his money from Monty Caabash and Monty approaches him about a TV deal. This is the most problematic page in the issue, IMO.

SMWGP 1 (14-16). Flashback. Some time after the fight, long enough for Pete to buy a new car. It's night, and Pete drives to Liz Allan's house and parks
outside. Flash Thompson shows up. Liz has words with Flash, Flash has words with Pete, and a plan is made for Pete and Flash to drag-race.

SMWGP 1 (17-20:2). Flashback. Pete and Flash race, Pete wins/drives Flash off the road.

SMWGP 1 (20:3-21:2). Flashback. Presumably immediately after he beats Flash, Pete has to swerve to avoid a raccoon. He hits a guard rail with the car.

SMWGP 1 (21:3-22). Flashback. Pete arrives at home with the banged up car, briefly talks to Uncle Ben, and heads to his room. We learn that Pete
was injured in the accident and had to go to the hospital and get stitches.



SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... #2
April 2008
A Star is Born! (Title given in previous issue)
1 page of reprint material (not counted below) + 23 pages

Characters:
Parkers - Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Aunt May, Uncle Ben
Wrestlers - Crusher Hogan, Bronx Wrangler, Frank "Chopper" Palone, various unnamed (including possibly one Rumble Sister)
Wrestling staff - Monty Caabash, Wendle (manager), Tiffany Lebeck
Students: Liz Allan, Flash Thompson, various unnamed
Mob thugs: (Mr.) Angel, Marco, various unnamed
Other: unnamed wrestling fans

SMWGP 2 (1-3:1). Spider-Man is training with Crusher Hogan. Spidey is just wearing some crummy clothes. His mask is loose-fitting and has open eye- and mouth-holes. A manager named Wendle has been watching the training.

SMWGP 2 (3:2-7:3). Spidey and Wendle meet up with Monty Caabash and discuss Spidey's rules for fighting. These include never showing his face, keeping his identity secret, always being paid in cash, and going by the name Spider-Man. Spidey is then introduced to Tiffany Lebeck, who works for Caabash and is supposed to help Spidey with his costume. She suggests "full body coverage".

SMWGP 2 (7:4-8). Pete sneaks into his house after Tiffany offers to let him stay with her. OP he turns her down. Pete makes noise coming in and wakes May and Ben.

SMWGP 2 (9). At school, Pete is exhausted and sleeps through a chemistry test. Liz confronts him about it and notices that Pete is bleeding. Pete passes out.

SMWGP 2 (10-11:1). Pete awakes at a hospital. Aunt May and Uncle Ben confront him about his erratic behaviour.

SMWGP 2 (11:2-12). Spidey arrives for a match and meets up with Tiffany and Wendle. They chat. Spidey's now wearing a full-body red-and-blue suit, but his mask still has open eye-holes.

SMWGP 2 (13:1). Spidey fights/beats Frank "Chopper" Palone

SMWGP 2 (13:2-15:4). Some mobsters, including a Mr. Angel, confront Monty about money they've invested in his league. They want Spidey on TV to boost chances of success.
Note: I'm not sure how to number this. 14/15 is a two-pager, with four panels set over a large splash. The splash is a montage of Spidey winning fights and of newspaper headlines similar to AAF15.

SMWGP 2 (15:5-16). Spidey and Tiffany on top of a skyscraper talking about Spidey's TV appearance the next day.

SMWGP 2 (17). Spidey swinging home.

SMWGP 2 (18). "40 minutes later", Spidey creates/finishes his web formula and shooters.

SMWGP 2 (19-22:1). At the televised Madison Square Gardens event, Spidey is just barely on time for his fight with the Bronx Wrangler. Monty and Wendle are worried. Spidey finally shows up, wearing his normal red-and-blue costume, with covered eyes. He and the Wrangler fight, and Spidey webs him up.

SMWGP 2 (22:2-23:2). Pete comes home and reconciles with May and Ben.

SMWGP 2 (23:3-23:4). At school, Pete and Liz Allan chat while Flash looks on.



SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... #3
May 2008
The Big, Wide World! (Title given in previous issue)
1 page of reprint material (not counted below) + 22 pages

Characters:
Parkers - Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Uncle Ben, Aunt May
Wrestling staff - Tiffany Lebeck, various unnamed
Bugle staff - J. Jonah Jameson, Benny, various unnamed
Fantastic Four - Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic), Johnny Storm (Human Torch)
Students - Liz Allan, Flash Thompson, various unnamed
Other - the Burglar, unnamed wrestlers, a "floozy" whose name might start with "R" or "G", an unnamed mobster, Jack (TV host), someone named Margie, unnamed club-goers, giant monster, Giganto

SMWGP 3 (1-3). At a Bugle meeting, JJJ gets angry about Spider-Man and assigns a reporter named Benny to get dirt on Spidey. An unnamed employee mentions that The Fantastic Four "just saved the city from the Mole Man".

SMWGP 3 (4-5). Dusk. Spidey and a girl whose name he can't remember sit on a rooftop and eat chinese food while they watch the FF battle a huge monster (from FF 1? I'm not an FF guy). Spidey and the girl make out.

SMWGP 3 (6-7). Night. Spidey arrives at Tiffany's apartment, late, and she calls him out for being with the floozy. They "need to be at the TV studio in less than an hour." Spidey mentions that that afternoon Monty wanted him to wear a hat, but Spidey put him in his place (referring to the beginning of issue 1). Tiffany invites Spidey to a party at a club called Mayhem, after the taping.

SMWGP 3 (8-9). Spidey appears on a talk show hosted by a guy named Jack. Meanwhile, the Burglar is snooping about and robs one of the mobsters and some other people of $20k.

SMWGP 3 (10:1). Spidey poses for photographers, chats with reporters after the show.

SMWGP 3 (10:2-11:2). Spidey does not stop the Burglar from getting away with the cash. No new info here, I think, except maybe one or two lines of dialogue.

SMWGP 3 (11:3-13:2). Spidey, Tiffany and Monty at Mayhem. Monty and Tiffany have some words, Spidey names Tiffany as his official manager and agent.

SMWGP 3 (13:3-15:2). Day. Aunt May and Uncle Ben receive a letter from Pete's school saying that he's been a bad student lately.

SMWGP 3 (15:3-17:3). At school, Pete makes plans with Liz to study after school. Flash tries to pressure Pete out of ever talking to Liz again.

SMWGP 3 (17:4). At the library after school, Pete meets Liz and convinces her to leave and go to...

SMWGP 3 (18:1 - 18:2). Mayhem (the club), Pete and Liz party it up.

SMWGP 3 (18:3-19:3). The Bugle. JJJ and Benny discuss an angle for their Spider-Man story.

SMWGP 3 (19:4-22). At 6:18 AM, Pete and Liz are leaving Mayhem. They run into Uncle Ben, who followed Pete after school. Ben is about to scold the hell out of Pete, when Giganto (I think) attacks.



SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... #4
August 2008
Smoke and Mirrors! (Title given in previous issue)
1 page of reprint material (not counted below) + 22 pages

Characters:
Parkers - Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Uncle Ben
Bugle staff - J. Jonah Jameson
Fantastic Four - Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic), Johnny Storm (Human Torch), Susan Storm (Invisible Girl), Ben Grimm (The Thing)
Students - Liz Allan, various unnamed
Mob thugs: (Mr.) Angel, Marco, various unnamed
Other - Tiffany Lebeck, Giganto, unnamed homeless man, unnamed club-goers, unnamed bystanders

SMWGP 4 (1-13). Giganto's attack. Pete, Ben and Liz try to escape while the FF try to drive the monster out of town. Pete and the Thing try to save an unnamed homeless man, but he ends up dying.

SMWGP 4 (14-15:4). In the car after the attack, Pete and Ben talk. Pete is upset that the homeless man died. Ben tells him that with great power comes great responsibility.

SMWGP 4 (15:5-16:1). At school, Pete feels all alone.

SMWGP 4 (16:2). Pete (at home?) feeling sorry for himself.

SMWGP 4 (16:3-17:2). Spidey at Mayhem, dancing with Tiffany and preparing to get drunk.

SMWGP 4 (17:3-20). Spidey at Tiffany's, drunk and sick. Spidey passes out and Tiffany looks under his mask. There are knocks at the door.

SMWGP 4 (21-22). Spidey awakens to find Angel and some mobsters at Tiffany's. JJJ is on TV blasting Spider-Man for being a coward. Angel demands that Spidey become a hero, to try and win over the public and boost his investment.



SPIDER-MAN: WITH GREAT POWER... #5
September 2008
With Great Power... (Title given in previous issue)
1 page of reprint material (not counted below) + 22 pages

Characters:
Parkers - Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Uncle Ben, Aunt May
Wrestling staff - Tiffany Lebeck, Wendle, Monty Caabash
Bugle staff - J. Jonah Jameson, unnamed employee
Mob thugs: (Mr.) Angel, Marco
Other - unnamed bank robbers, bystanders and cops; Morgenstern (suicidal jumper)

SMWGP 5 (1-3). Spider-Man trying, unsuccessfully, to stop a jumper from jumping. Spidey ends up saving him with webbing.

SMWGP 5 (4-5:1). Spidey at Tiffany's, freaking out and not able to cope with his new role as hero. Tiffany tells him about an upcoming bank robbery that Angel has orchestrated and that Spidey is to stop.

SMWGP 5 (5:2-8). After the bank robbery, Spidey stops the crooks from getting away. In the process, the getaway van almost slams into a group of bystanders. Spidey just barely saves them.

SMWGP 5 (9-10:3). Angel, Monty, Tiffany, Wendle, Marco discuss JJJ's ongoing crusade against Spidey and decide that Jameson needs to be silenced. Angel beats up on Tiffany.

SMWGP 5 (10:4-12). Night. Spidey arrives at Tiffany's. She is drunk, and tells him about the plan to kill Jameson that very night. Spidey takes his mask off, but Tiffany acknowledges she's far too drunk to even remember the meeting in the morning.

SMWGP 5 (13). Night. Spidey swinging around, presumably to the Bugle.

SMWGP 5 (14-18:3). Night. Angel and Marco show up at the Bugle to silence JJJ. Spidey shows up in the nick of time and stops them. Jameson passes out in the scuffle.

SMWGP 5 (18:4-19:1). Day. While Jameson was passed out, Spidey rewrote his column into a pro-Spidey article. Reading it the next day, Jameson is pissed.

SMWGP 5 (19:2). Day. Spidey swings around NYC while people read the article.

SMWGP 5 (19:3). Dusk. Spidey finds that Tiffany's apartment is empty and that she has skipped town.

SMWGP 5 (20-22). Night. Pete arrives home to find cop cars in a scene reminiscent of the Uncle Ben death revelation. It turns out the cops are there, though, because Pete hasn't been home in a week and Ben and May are worried. As they hug and reunite, a TV in the background announces that the Burglar is on the loose, armed and dangerous.



Notes:
- There are a number of things that have been revamped, including character designs, costumes, and some dialogue. I don't really consider this problematic, and I've ignored it.
- The biggest problem by far is how Caabash fits in with Maxie Shiffman (and wrestling boss Bobby from TW 14). Here's how I see it (and note that I haven't read any of the more modern stories featuring Maxie):
Maxie and Monty Caabash are clearly supposed to be different characters. Maxie introduces himself in AAF 15 as a TV producer. Caabash owns the wrestling league. They probably work hand-in-hand for awhile, with Caabash focusing more on the wrestling stuff and Maxie focusing more on the TV stuff. They have some similar dialogue in at least one case, but I don't see that as a problem. As for Bobby from TW 14, I would consider him more in the business of managing wrestlers, not the league as a whole. His character is much closer to Caabash's, but I think there's enough room for them to be separate entities. Thoughts?
- I noticed that some issues are listed as KEY #-FB (ww:xx - yy:zz) and others as KEY # (ww:xx - yy:zz)-FB. I'm not sure which is correct.
- I didn't bother with FF placement suggestions, because I just don't know enough about their chronologies and don't have access to the relevant materials.



Placement suggestions:

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
...
{AAF 15 (1 - 2:3)}
SMWGP 1 (6 - 8)-FB
PPTSS 60/2 (2:6)
AAF 15 (2:4 - 2:5)
PPTSS 60/2 (3:5 - 3:10)
AAF 15 (2:8)
PPTSS 60/2 (4:1 - 4:2)
AAF 15 (3:1)
ASM 94 (2:4)-FB
SMWGP 1 (9:1 - 9:3)-FB

Note, this gives the following lecture:
Good afternoon and welcome to the General Techtronics 'experiment in radioactivity!' I'm sure you're all concerned about the growing levels of radiation in our society! Well, we at G.T.L. share your concern. And that's why we're working to safely control radiation. And now, I'll demonstrate just how safe our equipment is! (PPTSS 60/2)
And now for a demonstration of how we can control radioactive rays here in the laboratory... (AAF 15)
Now, if you'll all give me your close attention-- (ASM 94)
With a steady stream of electrons we can control the rate of decay of the radioactive material...In this manner we will one day be able to render nuclear material safe. We may run our households, even our cars... (SMWGP 1)

AAF 15 (3:2 - 3:5)
PPTSS 60/2 (4:6 - 4:7)
AAF 15 (3:6)
ASM 94 (3:1 - 3:3)-FB
SM:PL (6:2 - 6:3)
AAF 15 (3:7 - 4:1)
PPTSS 60/2 (6:1)
AAF 15 (4:2 - 4:5)
M/CP 120/4-FB
AAF 15 (4:6)
PPTSS 60/2 (6:7 - 7:1)
AAF 15 (4:7 - 5:1)
TW 14
AAF 15 (5:2 - 5:4)
SMWGP 1 (12:2 - 12:4)-FB
AAF 15 (5:5 - 5:7)
SMWGP 1 (13)-FB
AAF 15 (6:1)
PPTSS 60/2 (8:4 - 8:5) - switched spots with ASM 94 (3:6). I think there was an error before.
ASM 94 (3:6)-FB
SMWGP 1-FB (10 - 11:3)
SMWGP 1-FB (14 - 22)
SMWGP 2 (1 - 17)
PPTSS 60/2 (8:6 - 9:1)
AAF 15 (6:2 - 6:3)
SMWGP 2 (18:3 - 18:4)
PPTSS 60/2 (9:2)
AAF 15 (6:4)
ASM 94 (3:8)-FB
PPTSS 60/2 (9:3 - 9:8)
AAF 15 (6:5 - 6:8)
SMWGP 2 (19 - 23:2)
ASM 94 (4:2 - 4:3)-FB
SMWGP 2 (23:3 - 23:4)
SMWGP 1 (1 - 5)
SMWGP 3 (1 - 7)
PPTSS 60/2 (10:1 - 10:2)-BTS
SMWGP 3 (8 - 9)
AAF 15 (7:1 - 7:4)
PPTSS 60/2 (10:4 - 10:5) - switched with WOSM 90-FB (3:6 - 3:7). I think there was an error before.
WOSM 90-FB (3:6 - 3:7)
AAF 15 (8:1) ~ SMWGP 3 (10:1) - includes new material
AAF 15 (8:2)
ASM2 38-FB
SMWGP 3 (10:4)
AAF 15 (8:3) - BTS - added BTS
PPTSS 60/2 (11:3) - BTS - added BTS
AAF 15 (8:4 - 8:6)
WOSM 90-FB (4:1 - 4: 3)
SMWGP 3 (11:3 - 22)
SMWGP 4
SMWGP 5
AAF 15 (8:7 - 8:8)
...



CAABASH, MONTY
SMWGP 1-FB
SMWGP 1
SMWGP 2
SMWGP 5



HOGAN, JOEY "CRUSHER"
...
TW 14 (21:6 - 22:1)
AAF 15 (5:2 - 5:4)
SMWGP 1 (12:2 - 12:4)-FB
AAF 15 (5:5 - 5:6)
ASM 271



JAMESON, J. JONAH
...
UTSM 12-FB
SMWGP 3
SMWGP 4
SMWGP 5
AAF 18
...



LEBECK, TIFFANY
SMWGP 2
SMWGP 3
SMWGP 4
SMWGP 5



OSBORN, LIZ ALLAN
...
AAF 17-FB
{AAF 15 (1)}
SMWGP 1 (7)-FB
AAF 15 (2)
SMWGP 1 (14 - 16)-FB
SM:PL
SMWGP 2
SMWGP 3
SMWGP 4
AAF 16
...



PARKER, BEN
...
ASM@ 1-FB
SMWGP 1 (7 - 8)-FB
{AAF 15 (2)}
SMWGP 1-FB (22)
SMWGP 2 (8)
SMWGP 2 (10 - 11:1)
AAF 15 (6)
SMWGP 2 (22:2 - 23:2)
SMWGP 3
SMWGP 4
SMWGP 5
AAF 15 (8)
PPSM2 33-FB
...



PARKER, MAY REILLY
...
ASM 370/2-FB
SMWGP 1-FB
{AAF 15 (2)}
SMWGP 2 (8)
SMWGP 2 (10 - 11:1)
AAF 15 (6)
SMWGP 2 (22:2 - 23:2)
SMWGP 3
SMWGP 5
AAF 15 (8)
PPTSS 60/2
...



SHIFFMAN, MAXIE
AAF 15 (6-7)
WOSM 90-FB
SMWGP 1
AAF 15 (8)-BTS ~ WOSM 90-FB - added page #
AAF 16
...


THOMPSON, EUGENE "FLASH"
...
AAF 17-FB
{AAF 15 (1)}
SMWGP 1 (6)-FB
AAF 15 (2)
SM:PL
SMWGP 1 (10 - 11)-FB
SMWGP 1 (14 - 20)-FB
SMWGP 2
SMWGP 3
AAF 16
...
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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by dimadick » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:30 am

You mention a wrestler called the Bronx Mangler. There are three wrestling-related character by the codename "the Mangler". Wonder if this could be one of them in their younger days.

*The first is a Daredevil foe depicted in "Daredevil" vol. 1 #22-23 (November - December, 1966), a "down-and-out wrestler who couldn't get any more matches", reportedly because the other wrestlers were afraid of him. He was depicted with light pigmentation ("white") and short brown hair.
*The second was Mangler/Daniels, a Power Man foe depicted in "Power Man" 34-35 (August-September, 1976). He was a "professional wrestler" seeking revenge on Noah Burstein. One of his brothers had been subjected to the experiments of Noah and ended up dying in agony. He was depicted with darker skin ("black") and a bald head.
*The third was never given a name in the issues, called Lucius O'Neil in the profiles. He first appeared in "Thing" vol. 1 #36 (June, 1986), as one of the members and associates of the Unlimited Class wrestling Federation attacking the Thing. He and Poundcakes managed to defeat the Fantastic Four member with a combined attack. He went on to appear as a mercenary in "Captain America" vol. 1 #328 (April, 1987), #363-364 (November-December, 1989) and #395 (December, 1991). In the latter he was killed by Cutthroat/Daniel Leighton. He was depicted with light skin and either a bald head or with short blond hair.

Does the Bronx fellow meet any of their descriptions?

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by dimadick » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:11 pm

That this mini-series does not even mention Maxie Shiffman is quite a problem. Since you aren't familiar with his side of the origin story, the following is a brief summary of his depictions.

In "Amazing Fantasy" vol. 1 #15 (August, 1962), Maxie is a "booking agent" who happened to be present among the audience of Spider-Man's initial fight with Crusher Hogan. He grasps the opportunity present in contacting the victor and explaining that "Your act could be worth a fortune! Whatever you do, keep the mask --- it's great showmanship!" He arranges for the first appearance of Spider-Man in television. After the show Spidey allows the Burglar to escape.

In a flashback in "Web of Spider-Man" #90 (July, 1992), Maxie and Spidey appear sharing a limousine ride following the show. They take the time to discuss business.

The storyline of Amazing Fantasy #15 continues with further public appearances by Spider-Man. His fame is growing and demand for further appearances increases. Maxie keeps arranging said appearances.

The flashbacks in Web of Spider-Man #90 continue. The night Ben Parker was murdered, Maxie happened to be located close to the warehouse where Spider-Man apprehended the Burglar. Maxie witnessed his client swinging away from the warehouse. he considered reporting what he saw to the Daily Bugle.

The storyline continues with "Amazing Fantasy" vol. 1 #16-18 (December, 1995 - March, 1996), a 1990s continuation of the original story. In #16, Maxie has lost contact with his client. Appearances of Spider-Man having ceased, profits are drying up. Maxie starts having trouble with paying his bills and his gambling debts. Already bookies are threatening to break his thumbs. he tries to contact his client through newspaper ads. Only imposters answer his call. Maxie follows a police report concerning a re-appearance of his client. He arrives seconds too late and his voice never reaches Spidey.

In #17, Maxie finally manages to approach his client. He offers to get him appearances in every venue his client could wish and at any paying rate he could wish. Spidey declines, giving a vague answer about living up to his responsibilities. Back at the office Grace, Maxie's secretary, resigns. Her reasons include not having been payed for "weeks" and being tired of hiding her employer from mob leg-breakers seeking payment. Maxie's gambling debts are getting out of hand. He manages however to secure another client in the person of Supercharger.

In #18, Spidey faces financial difficulties. He returns to Maxie in hopes of more appearances and new paychecks. Maxie arranges for both of his clients to appear in the television show "It's Amazing". Their inclusion is favored over an interview with an astronaut, John Jameson, and a protective father, J. Jonah Jameson, takes this as a personal insult. (Adding fuel to his campaign against Spidey). While the show is being recorded, Supercharger reveals himself as an activist. He is campaigning to convince the public that all superhumans are inherently dangerous. His method could use improvement, it includes identifying himself as a superhuman and then attacking the studio audience. Spidey fights against him and defeats him, their battle wrecking the show's set. The show is cancelled and recorded footage never televised. Spidey convinces Maxie to return their advance payment, being unable to offer the services they had agreed on.

The storyline continues in "Amazing Spider-Man" #1 (March, 1963) and flashbacks in Web of Spider-Man #90. Jonah has been campaigning against Spidey through his newspaper publications. Maxie tries and fails to convince Jonah to quit his campaign. Meanwhile Spidey discovers he can't cash his paychecks without revealing his identity to the bank. He confronts Maxie only to learn that Jameson managed to wreck his reputation and career. Making Spidey unemployable in show business.

Flashbacks in Web of Spider-Man #90 continue. For a while Maxie thought his career could end with that of Spider-Man. However his successful promotion of Spidey had earned him a reputation, allowing him to transfer his activities to the West Coast of the United States. He managed to become a successful producer and gained a wife, Trudy. However his wife eventually died of cancer and Maxie fell into despair. In the present portion of the issue, Mysterio recruits Maxie in a plot against Spider-Man. He had somehow convinced Maxie that he could bring his wife back, feeding him with illusions of her. Spidey defeats Mysterio and Maxie returns to his depression. No more appearances that I know of.

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by newtron » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:56 pm

thanks for the response dimadick!

about the mangler - in this story he is white and heavily tattooed in his shoulder/neck/head area with "tribal"-style tattoos. he has a shaved head. sounds like it could be the third mangler you mentiond, but as i said, some of the characters in this book got redesigns, so i'm not sure if it's enough to go on.

about shiffman - i agree that it's problematic, but i don't think it's a deal-breaker. when i said i hadn't read the modern stories, i mean any that were set after asm 1. when writing this review and doing placements, i did read the aaf 15 and the wosm 90 flashbacks that were set during aaf 15 (but not the later flashbacks or present-day stuff). i have previously read aaf 16-18, but i didn't check them for this particular analysis. none of the stuff in this series contradicts anything in those stories, as far as i can tell. it is certainly weird that he's not mentioned explicitly, but i think it works out. as i mentioned, there is a character that could be him. the way i'm choosing to understand it is that maxie, as an agent/promoter/producer, is working with the wrestling people to promote spidey. when the wrestling stuff stops, maxie is still around to work with peter on tv appearances, etc. this story just happens to focus on the wrestling side of things, so maxie isn't featured.
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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by dimadick » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:15 pm

newtron wrote:At a Bugle meeting, JJJ gets angry about Spider-Man and assigns a reporter named Benny to get dirt on Spidey. An unnamed employee mentions that The Fantastic Four "just saved the city from the Mole Man".
Spider-fan.org suggests that "Benny" could be an early appearance by Ben Urich.

The Mole Man threatening New York City? The Fantastic Four already known to its public. I wonder where that could fit.

In "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #1, the Fantastic Four have taken residence in Central City, maintaining secret identities. Harvey resides in Monster Isle. He uses various monsters to attack targets behind the Iron Curtain, in Australia, South America, French Africa. The Four then locate him and manage to bury him deep under the isle. New York City is not targeted, nor any other city in North America.

They do not meet Harvey again until #22 (January, 1964). The Four have moved to New York City but attract too much attention by the public for their own. Their activities are interrupted by endless complains. Reed decides to move his experiments to "a small deserted island off the coast of New Jersey". Only to find that the owner is the Mole Man and the Subterraneans are with him. Harvey was the omne who offered to sell the island to Reed in order to lure them into a trap. Harvey and his people have been "constructing huge hydraulic platforms under the largest cities on Earth! At a signal from me, these platforms will suddenly transport any or all of those cities down to the Earth’s core!" He expects the paranoid, remaining surfacemen to destroy each other through nuclear war. New York City can be persumed included with his otjher targets. The Four manage to escape and Reed reconfigured Harvey's equipment, resulting in the island sinking into the Atlantic Ocean. This is the first time the Four save a city from Harvey.

Harvey returns in #31 (October, 1964), where he directly threatens New York City. Starting by causing earthquakes, the Baxter Building being among those suffering damages. "Crowds are milling around in bewilderment" and "an entire city block" goes missing. Earthquakes continue and further blocks go missing. Thousands of New Yorkers become prisoners of the Mole Man, including the Invisible Girl who was the only one specifically targeted. Harvey blackmails her teammates in order to get them to act as his security force versus other-would-be-opponents. The first to arrive are the Avengers (Captain America,Giant-Man, Iron Man, Thor and Wasp). The Fantastic Three fight them and manage to explain they have a hostage situation going on. The Avengers retreat and their leader, Thor, grants the Three a deadline of 24 hours to resolve the situation. "After that, the Avengers will step in." The Three betray the Mole Man and perform a surprise attack which forces him to retreat and the missing blocks rise to the surface. They regain Susan but she suffers a severe head wound and her chances to survive are reportedly slim.

Harvey stays clear of the Four for a while, transferring his attentios to the Avengers, in "Avengers" vol. 1 #12, #16-17. Fantastic Four #31 is the earlier issue which fits the description given in "Great Power". Unfortunately it occurs two years too late to fit with Amazing Fantasy #15.
newtron wrote:SMWGP 3 (19:4-22). At 6:18 AM, Pete and Liz are leaving Mayhem. They run into Uncle Ben, who followed Pete after school. Ben is about to scold the hell out of Pete, when Giganto (I think) attacks.
Giganto the Mole Man servant or the living weapon of the Atlanteans? Same name, different appearance. In the first case, an early Giganto attack on New York City was depicted in "Fantastic Four: First Family" #3 (July, 2006), the monster having trailed the Four to the city and the residents affected by the battle. In the second case it could be connected to Namor's attack on "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #4 (May, 1962)

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by dimadick » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:42 pm

newtron wrote:- The biggest problem by far is how Caabash fits in with Maxie Shiffman (and wrestling boss Bobby from TW 14). Here's how I see it (and note that I haven't read any of the more modern stories featuring Maxie):
Maxie and Monty Caabash are clearly supposed to be different characters. Maxie introduces himself in AAF 15 as a TV producer. Caabash owns the wrestling league. They probably work hand-in-hand for awhile, with Caabash focusing more on the wrestling stuff and Maxie focusing more on the TV stuff. They have some similar dialogue in at least one case, but I don't see that as a problem. As for Bobby from TW 14, I would consider him more in the business of managing wrestlers, not the league as a whole. His character is much closer to Caabash's, but I think there's enough room for them to be separate entities. Thoughts?
I wouldn't worry too much about Bobby. As "Tangled Web" #14 makes clear, the exhibition placing Crusher Hogan against all challengers was his last effort at saving his company from bankruptcy. He had to mortgage his house and borrow from loan sharks to get the money. Loosing his money to Spider-Man is strongly implied to have left him bankrupt and his wrestlers unemployed. Crusher could well have found a new employer.

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by newtron » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:28 pm

Bobby from TW14 is problematic because he would have to be working at the same time as Monty Caabash. The fight with Hogan that ruins Bobby is shown in SMWGP 1, and it is made clear that Monty is in charge of the league that put on this competition. That's why I think Bobby must be some kind of manager or agent for the wrestlers themselves, not the league.

Benny could be Ben Urich, yeah. For some reason that hadn't crossed my mind.

The FF stuff might be tricky from the sounds of things. The Giganto I meant is the Atlantean one -- it looks like a giant whale. Here's a pic from SMWGP for you to confirm that this is, in fact, that Giganto:
Image

Here's the green monster the FF fights earlier in issue 2. Recognize him from anything?
Image

So, if Giganto appears in FF 4, the Mole Man thing has to be before that. Is that a possibility based on previous Mole Man appearances, or do we have to posit a previously unknown attack by him? Obviously I'd prefer not to have to do that.
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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by Enda80 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:02 pm

I get the sinking feeling that the writer's FF research stopped at looking at the cover to FF I#1, without realizing they worked out of Central City then and the cover did not accurately reflect the inside story.

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:21 pm

FF aside, I don't see Maxie Shiffman as a problem in this case. He wasn't important to the focus of the story being told in this mini, therefore he wasn't mentioned in this mini.
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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by dimadick » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:34 pm

newtron wrote:The Giganto I meant is the Atlantean one -- it looks like a giant whale. Here's a pic from SMWGP for you to confirm that this is, in fact, that Giganto:
Image
Yep, close enough to the creature in Fantastic Four #4. Perhaps close enough to give Namor a behind-the-scenes appearance as he controlled the creature at the time.
newtron wrote:Here's the green monster the FF fights earlier in issue 2. Recognize him from anything?
Image
The fin on his head makes him look a bit like the "Monster from Mars" the Four faced in "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #3 (March, 1962). Only it was colored orange. See: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mirac ... tm#Monster

That Monster was burned by the Human Torch. This battle was the first one in which the Four were wearing "blue and black jumpsuits" designed by Susan. I notice Reed is wearing it in the picture you posted and the fin has caught fire. Close enough?
newtron wrote:So, if Giganto appears in FF 4, the Mole Man thing has to be before that. Is that a possibility based on previous Mole Man appearances, or do we have to posit a previously unknown attack by him? Obviously I'd prefer not to have to do that.
I think Enda has figured this one out.

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by newtron » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:51 pm

Good call on the Monster from Mars, I'd say that's definitely it. We can chalk the colouring difference up to artistic license/mistake.

Even though Enda is most likely correct about the real-world reason the Mole man mistake is in there, don't we have to come up with a believable enough in-world reason? My suggestions would be that the guy at the Bugle that says the FF "just saved the city" is not from NYC, but actually from Central City and visiting for some reason. It would only be natural for him to refer to Central City as "the city".

I'll try to take a peek at the relevant FF issues this weekend and work out a chronology for the FF, Giganto, the Monster from Mars, and possibly Namor BTS and Miracle Man BTS.

So...all problems solved? I almost hate to ask, but does it make sense for this part of Peter Parker's life to coincide with this period in the FF's career?
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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by Enda80 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:28 pm

I refer you to Marvel Saga, which had a section called Continuity Corner on the back page which related events in unrelated series to each other. Marvel Saga#2-3, as I recall, covered the Miracle Man's debut, and presented the famed spider bit as happening just around then. (Of course, Continuity Corner's conclusions later got denied by sundry later developments; for example, many of Doctor Strange's early published adventures and his origin got set by CC as around FF I#1 and its immediate subsequent issues, but the Lost Generation has Doctor Strange and his adventures before Strange Tales I#123 when he met Thor taking place before FF I#1).

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Re: Spider-Man: With Great Power... 1-5

Post by Enda80 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:59 am

The Miracle Man had metahuman hypnotic abilities, therefore the discrepancy in the entity's appearance could refer to that (the Miracle Man's illusion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Man#cite_ref-2
FF I#138 has the Torch give a conflicting recap of the first Miracle Man encounter. However this impacts that I do not know.

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