Marvel Double Feature

[Paul Bourcier]

We currently have Marvel Double Feature...Avengers/Giant-Man #379/2-382/2 listed as M/DF2 1-4.

During the same four months these comics were produced, Marvel also published Marvel Double Feature...Thunderstrike/Code Blue #13-16, for which we don't have a listing (as noted in another thread). We can't likely call this M/DF3 1-4, as it was contemporaneous with M/DF2.

Can we change both the code AND the numbering for M/DF2? The indicia do not note #1-4, but #379-382. And we're talking about the second stories in those issues.

How about M/DF:A/GM 379/2-382/2 and M/DF:TS/CB 13/2-16/2?

(I'm slowly working on charater updates for M/DF:TS/CB 13/2-16/2 and will need to cite these issues correctly.)

[Somebody]

How about doing a Marvel Comics Presents and just calling the flip stories /2 from the "parent" book? Temporary renames don't usually change a book's code, and these weren't available separately.

[Col_Fury]

Actually, they were.

Avengers #379 was a standard sized comic that had one story. Marvel Double Feature... Avengers/Giant-Man #379 was published the same month. Its lead story reprinted the only story in Avengers #379, and the flip Giant-Man story was all new. The same went for #380-381 for both, and then Avengers #382 had two stories. Marvel Double Feature... Avengers/Giant-Man #382 had three stories, two reprints and another all new Giant-Man story. (yeah, even though they were published in the same months, the lead stories in Double Feature are considered reprints) And for fun, the flip covers on Double Feature link up to make one big picture.

The same goes for Thunderstrike #13-16 and Marvel Double Feature... Thunderstrike/Code: Blue #13-16, except the flip covers didn't link up to make one big pcture and Thunderstrike #16 only had one story.

Here are some links to the different covers for Thunderstrike #13 and Marvel Double Feature... Thunderstrike/Code: Blue #13:

http://www.comics.org/issue/55903/
http://www.comics.org/issue/372073/

Fun!

[JephYork]

To clarify Daron's explanation a bit, the "Double Feature" issues actually had *different titles in the indicia*. The single-story version of Avengers #379 just says "Avengers #379". The flipbook version says "Marvel Double Feature...Avengers/Giant-Man #379". That, more than anything else, is what makes them "different comics".

As an example of the opposite scenario, Amazing Spider-Man #394 and the other Spidey books from that fateful month in 1994 that kicked off the Clone Saga (yaaaaay) each have two versions: one with a flipbook story and one without. But both versions have *the same indicia title,* and so are considered a "standard" and "deluxe" version of the same issue.

These Avengers and Thunderstrike flipbook issues, on the other hand, are different beasts -- the indicia change brands them as different titles than the "standard" issues.

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Here is my proposal for additions to the MCP from my work with Marvel Double Feature...Thunderstrike/Code Blue. I'm still pouring over a bunch of regular Thunderstrike issues and might come up with a couple of tweaks here and there, but I wanted to get this posted in a timely fashion.

BOYD, “TWO-FISTED” TOMMIE
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

CONKLIN, AMY [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2
M/DF:TS 15/2-BTS

CONKLIN, CAPT. SHELLY [add first name]
...
TS 8
*TS 11 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
*TS 23 [add]
*TS 24 [add]
*T 492-BTS [add]

CONKLIN, PAUL [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2
M/DF:TS 14/2
M/DF:TS 15/2

CONKLIN, PAUL JR. [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2
M/DF:TS 15/2-BTS

DAREDEVIL
...
PPTSS 219
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
DD 338
...

DAWSON, “DICTIONARY”
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

FIELSTEIN, DANIEL “FIREWORKS” [add first name]
...
TS 8
*NW@ 4 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
*TS 22 [add]
*TS 23 [add]
*JIM 505 [add]

GARTHWAITE, ANN [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 14/2-FB
T 431-FB
PPTSS 125
PPTSS 126

GARTHWAITE, BURT [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 14/2-FB
T 431-FB
M/DF:TS 14/2

HERCULES
...
A@ 23
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
A 379
...

HIGH EVOLUTIONARY
...
FFU 9
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
T 480
...

EDWIN JARVIS
...
TS 10
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
TS 13
...

JEFFERS, TOM [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 16/2

KOCKENLOCKER, TRUDY [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 16/2

KRASK, KENNETH [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2-BTS
M/DF:TS 14/2-BTS
M/DF:TS 15/2
M/DF:TS 16/2

KRASK, KEVIN [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2-BTS
M/DF:TS 14/2-BTS
M/DF:TS 15/2
M/DF:TS 16/2

KRASK, KRONIN
T 172
*M/DF:TS 15/2
*M/DF:TS 16/2

LEE, “LITTLE LARRY”
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

LUBOWSKI, “LUGWRENCH”
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

MAJOWSKI, SAM “MOTHER”
...
TS 8
*NW@ 4 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
TS 22

MERENGUES, “SMOOTH MANNY”
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

NELSON, FRANKLIN P. “FOGGY”
...
SSWP 28
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
DD 339
...

O’GRADY, CHIEF [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2
M/DF:TS 14/2
M/DF:TS 15/2
M/DF:TS 16/2

PIKE, CHARLIE [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 16/2

RASSITANO, JULIUS ANTHONY “MAD DOG”
...
TS 8
*NW@ 4 [add]
*NT2 15 [add]
*XFOR 40 [move to here]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
TS 22
TS 23
*XFOR 40 [move from here]
JIM 505
*TB2 3 [add]

REDFIELD, JIM [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 14/2
M/DF:TS 15/2

ROBERTA [add entire entry]
This is a partial chronology from a number of sources; this needs to be fleshed out and verified.
FF 239
FF@ 17
TG 4
FF 262
UX 178
PPTSS 89
FF 265
1985 5
FF 311
FF@ 21
FF 318
PP 57
FF 348
FF 349
FF@ 24
DLOK2 3
FF 361
NW@ 2/5
FF 371
FF 376
FF 384
FF 389
FF 394
M/DF:TS 13/2
FF 403
FF 404
FF 405
FF 410
AUP 4
FF 415

RUIZ, MARGARITA ALLEGRA “RIGGER” [add first & middle names]
...
TS 7
*NW@ 4 [add]
*FFOR 1 [add]
*NT2 15 [add]
XFOR 40
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
TS 22
TS 23
JIM 505

RUIZ, ROBERTO “RHYTHM” [add first name]
FF 361
*JUSTICE2 1 [add]
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]

STONE, LT. MARCUS
...
TS 8
*NW@ 4 [add]
TS 11
*FFOR 1 [add]
XFOR 40
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 16/2 [add]
FFOR 6
...
JIM 505
*JIM 506 [add]
SM:HL 3
...
FF3 46
*TB2 3 [add]
*S-H4 21 [add]

THERMAL MAN
...
T@ 15/3
*M/DF:TS 15/2-FB [add]
M/SH3 9
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]

THOR
...
T 401
*TS 20/2-FB [add]
*TS 21/2-FB [add]
T 370
...
FFU 9
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
T 480
*TS 15 [add]
T 481
...

THUNDERSTRIKE
...
TS 11
*M/DF:TS 15/2 [add]
*TS 12-FB [add]
TS 12
TS 13
TS 14
*TS 15-FB [move to here]
*TS 15 [move to here]
A 379
N 58
*TS 15-FB [move from here]
*TS 15 [move from here]
TS 16
TS 17
TS 18
TS 19
*TS 20 [move to here]
A 383
FW 10/2
FF 400/2
TS 20/2
TS 21/2
*TS 20 [move from here]
SM:PT 3
...

TRUESMITH, WOODROW [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 16/2

WRECKER III/DIRK GARTHWAITE
*M/DF:TS 14/2-FB [add]
T 431-FB
...
CA 413
*M/DF:TS 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS 14/2 [add]
AUP 4
...

YOUNG, JIM [add entire entry]
M/DF:TS 13/2
M/DF:TS 14/2
M/DF:TS 15/2
M/DF:TS 16/2

[Michael]

FIELSTEIN, DANIEL “FIREWORKS” [add first name]
...
TS 8
*NW@ 4 [add]
*M/DF:TS/CB 13/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS/CB 14/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS/CB 15/2 [add]
*M/DF:TS/CB 16/2 [add]
*TS 22 [add]
*TS 23 [add]
*JIM 505 [add]

So you're concluding that "Fenton" from JIM 505 was Fielstein? That was my conclusion as well.

ROBERTA [add entire entry]
This is a partial chronology from a number of sources; this needs to be fleshed out and verified.
FF 239
TG 4
FF 262
UX 178
PPTSS 89
1985 5
FF 311
FF@ 21
FF 318
PP 57
FF 348
FF 349
FF@ 24
DLOK2 3
FF 361
FF 371
FF 376
FF 384
FF 389
FF 394
M/DF:TS/CB 13/2
FF 403
FF 404
FF 405
FF 410
AUP 4
FF 415

Roberta made an appearance in NW@ 2/5 between FF 361 and FF 371.

[JephYork]

Good work, but God that's an awkward acronym.

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Yeah, I don't care for it either; using either M/DF3 or TS x/2 is problematic for reasons stated earlier, but it's just a code, so as long as whatever we choose is understood, we should be good. So what's in going to be?

Now, a word about the Wrecker. In M/DF:TS/CB 13/2, he emerges from the dimension into which he was cast in T 431. The problem is that he appeared on Earth several times in between, namely:
FF 355
AF 118
AF 119
CA 411
CA 412
CA 413
I think we're going to have to assume that he somehow escaped the dimension and returned to it bts for some unknown reason.

[Michael]

Here's some more appearances for Roberta. In FF@ 17, Sharon Selleck called the FF and got Roberta. In FF 265, the Trapster encountered Roberta.

[JephYork]

Yeah, I don't care for it either; using either M/DF3 or TS x/2 is problematic for reasons stated earlier, but it's just a code, so as long as whatever we choose is understood, we should be good. So what's in going to be?

We could just drop the extra slash and everything after it, and call it M/DF:TS.

Now, a word about the Wrecker. In M/DF:TS/CB 13/2, he emerges from the dimension into which he was cast in T 431. The problem is that he appeared on Earth several times in between, namely:
FF 355
AF 118
AF 119
CA 411
CA 412
CA 413
I think we're going to have to assume that he somehow escaped the dimension and returned to it bts for some unknown reason.

Does his Handbook entry address this? They sometimes cover discrepancies like this with behind-the-scenes explanations.

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph, I'll go along with the M/DF:TS code, and I've edited the entries accordingly. That means we should change M/DF2 to M/DF:A.

I added Thunderstrike to the list, and I edited Thor's entry. Thor's appearance in TS 15 wasn't in his MCP chronology, and his presence there called my attention to a problem that forced a modification to Thunderstrike's chronology.

The MCP has Sif in T 482 after TS 15, and T 482 continues from T 481, so T 481 is after TS 15.
The MCP has Jarvis in A 382 after T 481.
The MCP has Crystal and Quicksilver in N 58 after A 382.
The MCP has Thunderstrike in TS 15 after N 58.
TS 15 can't be both before T 481 and after N 58.

Going by publication order and my original placement of TS 15 closer to TS 14, I decided to go with the earlier placement of TS 15.

Also, having FFU 9 between T 479 and 480 is a little awkward, given the dialog in T 480, but I can't see a way around it, given FF chronology.

And guys, keep the Roberta appearances coming.

[Michael]

There's one interesting question regarding Roberta's chronology. In FF 278, Kristoff destroys the Baxter Building. However, the Watcher saves many of the FF's personal belongings and returns them in FF@ 22/2. (Incidentally, Uatu should be listed as behind-the-scenes in FF 278.) Now Roberta isn't explicitly shown in FF@ 22/2 as among the belongings the Watcher returned. So should we assume that the original Roberta was destroyed in FF 278 and Reed built a new one? Or should we assume that Roberta is behind-the-scenes in FF@ 22/2? Or should we assume Roberta escaped the explosion in another manner?

[Somebody]

So should we assume that the original Roberta was destroyed in FF 278 and Reed built a new one? Or should we assume that Roberta is behind-the-scenes in FF@ 22/2? Or should we assume Roberta escaped the explosion in another manner?

Well, three separate Roberta models show up in the ruined Four Freedoms Plaza in FF3... 14, I think (during the arc from #13-15, anyway. One identifies the building as "Thunderbolts Plaza"). I'd go for "Reed built a new one".

[Paul Bourcier]

Hmm. How do we go about determining and specifying different Roberta models?

[ShadZ]

Is Roberta sentient? I always got the idea that she was just a very sophisticated auto-responder, but she couldn't actually think -- and therefore doesn't qualify as a "character"