M/GN:EDOOM and SECWARSII#2

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robfj
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M/GN:EDOOM and SECWARSII#2

Post by robfj » Tue May 10, 2016 5:50 pm

OK, it's given that there's a problem with EDOOM because Dr Doom wasn't supposed to be himself at the time. That has to have an undecided explanation like a Doombot or part of the Beyonder's time manipulation that put Doom in SECWARSI (and presumably in the Marvel 1985 series). And events in Iron Man and Avengers force it to be where you've put it. Plus if you have to shoehorn a month of the world ruled by Doom somewhere within Secret Wars II then before #2 is best, before Beyonder takes on a more continuous presence on Earth. Maybe he didn't interfere with EDOOM because he was intrigued to see how it would go?

But I may have found a minor slip that's caused a timeloop of its own around this GN.

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
....
FF 280 (1 - 11:1)
SECWARSII 2 (1 - 5)
FF 280 (11:2 - 22)
FF 281
SECWARSII 2 (6 - 25)
....

and

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN "GRANT" ROGERS
....
SECWARSII 1
CA 308
CA 309
M/GN:EDOOM
FF 280-BTS (mentioned by Jarvis on p10)
A 256
....

corroborated by

JARVIS, EDWIN
....
CA 309
M/GN:EDOOM
PP 15
PPSSM 106
A 256
FF 280
FF 281
....

with extra support from

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
....
PPSSM 106
SECWARSII 2
WOSM 6
....

clearly place EDOOM before SECWARSII#2.

But

POWER MAN II/CARL LUCAS/"LUKE CAGE"
....
PM&IF 114
SECWARSII 2
PULSE 14 (7 - 19)-FB
PM&IF 115
PM&IF 116
PM&IF 117
M/GN:EDOOM
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
PM&IF 121
PM&IF 122
SECWARSII 9
....

has SECWARSII#2 before EDOOM.

Iron Fist is in the same issues but skips EDOOM.

IRON FIST VIII/DANIEL RAND
....
PM&IF 114
SECWARSII 2
PULSE 14-FB
PM&IF 115
PM&IF 116
PM&IF 117
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
SECWARSII 9
....

He isn't in #121-122 because an imposter takes his place for a while.

IRON FIST VIII H'YLTHRI IMPOSTER
PM&IF 120
PM&IF 121
PM&IF 122
SECWARSII 9
PM&IF 124
PM&IF 125-FB



To clarify things, the PM&IF issues can be grouped as follows:-
#114 is the last appearance of their office building before it gets turned to gold and collapses in SECWARSII#2. Financial problems make them them go to work for CCI.
#115-117 They get sent on assignment to Alaska, IF gets irradiated and has to live in a protective suit. CCI takes them to Nice(!) to recover. IF decides to ditch the suit and go to K'un-Lun for a cure.
#118-120 They go to Boston to see Dr Druid for help getting to K'un-Lun, and then have an adventure there.
#121 They return to NY saying Beyonder just transported them from K'un-Lun in SECWARSII#6 (but we don't see it/them in that issue - however the last page editorial comment does say PM&IF#121 follows) and find their building really has gone - they were hoping SECWARSII#2 was a dream. Beyonder appears later in the issue.

So you put #121 after SECWARSII#6 as instructed.
The gold building isn't mentioned in PM&IF until #121, but you reasonably put SECWARSII#2 immediately after #114.
EDOOM then gets put in the other available gap between #117 and #118, possibly because his illness can explain why IF isn't with Luke Cage in it. (EDOOM threads agree with the placement without going into detail.)



I can see a way in which the apparent contradiction in chronologies can be resolved using time travel. This may even be your own reasoning, although I can't find any mention of it in the archives.
In SECWARSII#2 Beyonder goes the Heroes For Hire office but they're not there. So he brings them from a 'not-too-distant' past when they *were* there. Then Spider-Man turns up and Beyonder turns the building to gold. At the end of SECWARSII#2 he vanishes leaving PM&IF behind. But when the story continues in WOSM#6 a flashback says that PM&IF vanished too, presumably implying that Beyonder sent them back to the time he got them from. And since the team are away from New York in their #115-120 then the last time B would find them in their office would be before #115. The actual time of SECWARSII#2 would be somewhere during the away adventures. This would explain why they haven't seen the hole where their building was until #121, and why until then they could think the whole thing might not have been real.



However I think I can present a case for solving this problem by actually swapping round EDOOM and SECWARSII#2 for Luke Cage.

I don't think EDOOM fits well between #117 and #118. Iron Fist is dying and Cage wants to rush him to K'un-Lun to save his life. But EDOOM would mean that he survives another month in between. Luke being seen without Danny in EDOOM doesn't necessarily imply that Iron Fist is out of action. Doom has Cage and Hulk acting as bodyguards for him in Washington. IF isn't mentioned and Doom wouldn't be bothered about keeping them together. So I suggest moving EDOOM to before #115 where the month gap doesn't matter. The team's going to work for CCI just gets put on hold like everything else.
It doesn't really matter whether EDOOM is put before or after the team's time-displaced appearance in SECWARSII#2. A 'not-too-distant' past for Beyonder could be the same morning or a month ago. But I'd choose to put EDOOM before SECWARSII#2, if only to stop somebody else like me querying the apparent chronology clash.

In fact I would like to propose completing the swap by putting the team's SECWARSII#2 app after #117. In my scenario the duo stopover in New York between Nice and Boston to meet up with Colleen Wing. (#117 could be read that she's going to meet them in Boston. Or not. But I don't think even today there are direct flights from Nice to Boston, and some of the options have JFK airport as an intermediary. But then CCI has private planes.) Beyonder brings them forward a few hours from a brief visit to the office, then sends them back after turning the building to gold. They leave for Boston before the event actually happens. In #121 they return from K'un-Lun to find it really did happen.



Moving EDOOM doesn't affect Iron Fist's chronology, but SECWARSII#2 would also have to be moved for him.

No-one else in EDOOM, SECWARSII#2 or the intervening PM&IF issues cares. The PULSE fb isn't connected to anything else and can stay where it is.



So I've got 3 alternate proposals.


1) Leave everything where it is and explain the clash away behind the scenes by time travel.


2) Just move EDOOM for Luke Cage:-

POWER MAN II/CARL LUCAS/"LUKE CAGE"
....
PM&IF 114
M/GN:EDOOM moved from after PM&IF 117
SECWARSII 2
PULSE 14 (7 - 19)-FB
PM&IF 115
PM&IF 116
PM&IF 117
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
PM&IF 121
PM&IF 122
SECWARSII 9
....


3) (my favourite) Also move SECWARSII 2 for him and Iron Fist:-

POWER MAN II/CARL LUCAS/"LUKE CAGE"
....
PM&IF 114
M/GN:EDOOM moved from after PM&IF 117
PULSE 14 (7 - 19)-FB
PM&IF 115
PM&IF 116
PM&IF 117
SECWARSII 2 moved from before PULSE 14 (7 - 19)-FB
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
PM&IF 121
PM&IF 122
SECWARSII 9
....

IRON FIST VIII/DANIEL RAND
....
PM&IF 114
PULSE 14-FB
PM&IF 115
PM&IF 116
PM&IF 117
SECWARSII 2 moved from before PULSE 14-FB
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
SECWARSII 9
....




Even if you just choose option 1 this hasn't been a complete waste of time. Along the way I've noticed a couple of other bits.



Iron Fist gets replaced by a plant from partway through #120 to the end of the series. But both of them get credited with an appearance in SECWARSII#9. It can only be the fake, despite the fact that he's given a green costume rather than the red 1 he changed to in #120.

So we need to change:-
IRON FIST VIII/DANIEL RAND
....
PM&IF 118
PM&IF 119
PM&IF 120
(SECWARSII 9 deleted)
....



There are also 2 problems with the chronology of Jarvis above (and 2 more in another part of Secret Wars II that I'll deal with in another thread).

We have (extended)

JARVIS, EDWIN
....
CA 309
M/GN:EDOOM
PP 15
PPSSM 106
A 256
FF 280
FF 281
FF 282
PP 16
PP 17
A 258
....

But we also have

RICHARDS, FRANKLIN BENJAMIN
....
FF 280
FF 282
PP 15
PP 16
PP 17
SECWARSII 6
....

In FF#282 Franklin has a predictive dream about the events in Power Pack #16-17, and his parents leave him in the care of Jarvis while they go into the Microverse in #282-284. In PP#15 he has another dream while in Jarvis' care (and the Microverse trip is mentioned). So it's clear that PP#15 should follow FF#282.
The main action of PP#15 has the PP meeting Beta Ray Bill and friends after Thor #357-359. Possibly the Jarvis app was placed earlier to line up with that. But those Thor issues aren't directly connected to anything else in a way that would require them to drag PP#15 backwards.

The other problem is brought to light by

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN "GRANT" ROGERS
....
M/GN:EDOOM
FF 280-BTS
A 256
A 257
....

Cap's BTS in FF#280 is the same scene as that with Jarvis, who mentions what Cap is doing in the present crisis in the FF book. But this says Av#256 follows FF#280. And FF#280-282 are a continuous tale (and closely tied into linked SECWARSII issues). So it makes sense that Av#256-257 should follow FF#282 as well.

This places PP#15-17 and Av#256-257 all after FF#282. But there is a question of the ordering of these issues. PP#15 is directly tied to FF#282 and #16-17 also happen during the FF's extended stay in the Microverse in #282-284. Av#256-257 are more connected to their #258 than the earlier #255. So my guess is that Jarvis' app in Av#256 should be placed after the PP issues.

Actually the FF are in the Microverse for a long time, and there is scope for a gap between PP#15 and #16 so the Av issues *could* go in there. But such a decision would require a Calendar-level analysis.

The result is changes to just 1 chronology:-
JARVIS, EDWIN
....
CA 309
M/GN:EDOOM
PPSSM 106
FF 280
FF 281
FF 282
PP 15 moved from before PPSSM 106
PP 16
PP 17
A 256 moved from after PPSSM 106
A 258
....

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