Is GROO canon?

[loki]

From random CONAN bits:

SJNS
-Conan battles a wanderer in the snow in front of a burning building.
-technically, this would be a flash-forward within a flashback, as the villain Ombu-Doksi was in pre-Hyborian Age Atlantis in the previous panel weaving a tapestry of things that all came true, then in the following panel she’s dancing while Atlantis sinks into the ocean. Still, it takes place before the “now” portion of the story and like the narration says, it came true. So whatever.

Given that he appears to be fighting Groo (who I am sure you recognized, given you described Conan's opponent as a wanderer), I'm wondering if this would count as evidence that Dark Horse's Conan vs. Groo might be 616.

[Somebody]

Given that he appears to be fighting Groo (who I am sure you recognized, given you described Conan's opponent as a wanderer), I'm wondering if this would count as evidence that Dark Horse's Conan vs. Groo might be 616.

I think we would need an outright "Conan vs Groo is canon" statement from Marvel, no implications or nods'n'winks, before we would ever consider incorporating a series not published or co-published by Marvel into the listings. An unrelated panel that just happens to show both characters certainly wouldn't be enough.

[loki]

Given that he appears to be fighting Groo (who I am sure you recognized, given you described Conan's opponent as a wanderer), I'm wondering if this would count as evidence that Dark Horse's Conan vs. Groo might be 616.

I think we would need an outright "Conan vs Groo is canon" statement from Marvel, no implications or nods'n'winks, before we would ever consider incorporating a series not published or co-published by Marvel into the listings. An unrelated panel that just happens to show both characters certainly wouldn't be enough.

I did say evidence, rather than proof. Lets not forget that at the time of publication of SJNS Marvel was publishing both Conan and Groo comics. But I concede your point that without a canonicity statement it's not enough to include it in the listings here. I just found it interesting to ruminate on.

[Col_Fury]

Given that he appears to be fighting Groo (who I am sure you recognized, given you described Conan's opponent as a wanderer),

Yeah, it's either supposed to be Groo or it's an homage. He's more "cartoony" than Conan is in that panel, and he's dressed like Groo.

As mentioned, Marvel was publishing Groo at the time:

These were all published by Marvel/Epic:

EPIC GRAPHIC NOVEL: DEATH OF GROO (1987, Epic)
GROO THE WANDERER (1985-1995, Epic) #1-120
GROO CHRONICLES (1989-1990, Epic) #1-6 (reprints GROO THE WANDERER (1982, Pacific Comics) #1-8)
LIFE OF GROO GN (1993, Epic)
SUBURBAN JERSEY NINJA SHE-DEVILS (1991, Marvel) #1

(side note: I see all over the internet that Death of Groo is called "Marvel Graphic Novel #32," but it's an Epic Graphic Novel, not a Marvel Graphic Novel. That's odd, right?)

Then it went to Image (GROO (1994-1995) #1-12), then Dark Horse (several minis over more than a decade).

Does anyone know if plots continued through the different publishers? A quick search on the interwebs tells me at least one supporting character (Captain Ahax) appears in Pacific Comics, Epic, Image and Dark Horse, so maybe? Or more precisely, do say, Image Groo comics reference Epic Groo comics? They're all by Sergio Aragonés, so probably?

[ShadZ]

Does anyone know if plots continued through the different publishers? A quick search on the interwebs tells me at least one supporting character (Captain Ahax) appears in Pacific Comics, Epic, Image and Dark Horse, so maybe? Or more precisely, do say, Image Groo comics reference Epic Groo comics? They're all by Sergio Aragonés, so probably?

All of Groo has been one continuity, as expected under the same cartoonist. (well, I haven't read the last 3-4 mini-series, including the Conan team-up, so maybe it was handled differently)

Once, Sergio got tired of the standing joke that most people knew Groo's reputation and fled from him reflexively, and fixed it by sending Groo to a far away land where no one knew him! More elegant that a reboot, methinks...

[wolframbane]

Wasn't he part of the Guardians of the Galaxy? Or as he says, "I AM GROO."

[loki]

I just want to make it clear because it isn't currently the case: I did NOT start a thread suggesting Groo is canon. I mentioned the Groo vs Conan crossover in the Conan thread, and someone has split it off into it's own thread. Which is fine, but I would NOT have used that title. I wondered if the crossover was canon, and more as an interesting concept than a serious suggestion.

To clarify: just because that one crossover might be canon does not mean that Groo has to live in 616 under normal circumstances, nor does it establish him as coming from Conan's Hyborian era.

[Col_Fury]

Totally cool, yo!

And to be fair, two characters appearing together in a Marvel comic would not be out of the bounds of reality to suggest something is canon to 616 (not that you did). I mean, they (a Barbarian and a Wanderer) appeared together, right?

That's why we ask the questions!

[loki]

Totally cool, yo!

And to be fair, two characters appearing together in a Marvel comic would not be out of the bounds of reality to suggest something is canon to 616 (not that you did). I mean, they (a Barbarian and a Wanderer) appeared together, right?

That's why we ask the questions!

No problem. I just see them as two separate questions which may have different answers: Is the crossover 616 canon, and is Groo and his background 616 canon.

Groo could have wandered into 616 (or Conan into Groo's world, or the two worlds may have temporarily merged, a la Excalibur: Weird War III) without himself being canon.

Groo and his world could be 616 canon (though I suspect without further evidence to support this somewhere in his own series that'd be hard to confirm), but have wandered into the reality of the non-616 Dark Horse Conan.

[Clive_Reston]

I'm wary of canonizing appearances of characters not owned by Marvel in which they don't interact with undeniably-616 characters at all--my impulse is that the question of who published Groo the Wanderer is less germane than the question of who Groo belongs to. (Or, to put it another way: my gut feeling is that, sure, that's a Conan-like entity and a Groo-like entity in Suburban She-Devils, but not that the Epic issues of Groo the Wanderer are 616.) Definitely worth thinking about, though.

(quiet muttering about SMTU 5/2 continues in my head...)

[vanhornluke]

If memory serves, doesn't Groo also appear in one of the Avengers/Ultraforce crossover issues, when heroes from other alternate realities also appear? That could be evidence that Groo is not 616, since he's being pulled in from an alternate reality. Of course, that could be an alternate reality version of the 616 Groo (if there is one), since there were also alternate reality versions of the Avengers in that scene, too.

[loki]

If memory serves, doesn't Groo also appear in one of the Avengers/Ultraforce crossover issues, when heroes from other alternate realities also appear? That could be evidence that Groo is not 616, since he's being pulled in from an alternate reality. Of course, that could be an alternate reality version of the 616 Groo (if there is one), since there were also alternate reality versions of the Avengers in that scene, too.

Yes, he did.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix7/hard ... ml#various

[wolframbane]

Groo, or a version of him, appeared in Suburban She-Devils #1, battling a parody of COnan during the sinking of Atlantis.

[loki]

Groo, or a version of him, appeared in Suburban She-Devils #1, battling a parody of COnan during the sinking of Atlantis.

I think you'll find it is Suburban Jersey Ninja She-Devils, hence the abbreviation SJNS, which is what we've been discussing literally from the start of this thread...

Actually, you raise a valid point though - if it is meant to be during the sinking of Atlantis, it's either not 616 or Conan at least has time-travelled, since he's from well after the sinking of Atlantis.

[loki]

Oh yes, and another reason why I wouldn't have picked this title for the thread:

Of COURSE Groo is canon. EVERYTHING is canon. We have an infinite Omniverse, so everything is true somewhere within it. The correct question would be "Is Groo canon in 616?"