Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

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wolverine7230
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Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by wolverine7230 »

I laid out a few of these points before in the "Call for Analysis: Conan" thread but I have a few more points, covering the entirety of Conan's chronology before COB 1. The MCP currently has this section of the chronology like so:

CONAN
COB 117-FB-FB
{COB 1 (14:4)-FB}
COB 232-FB
COB 233 (1 - 9)
COB 119-FB
COB 178
SAVT 4 (4:4)-FB
GSCO 1 (15:2)-FB
COB 130-FB
COB 128-FB
SAVSCO 89/2
COB 251-FB-FB
SAVSCO 34-FB
SAVSCO 203/2
SAVSCO 227 (1 - 11)
KCO 9-FB
SAVSCO 227 (12 - 15)
COB 48-FB
COB 233 (10 - 24)
COB 234
COB 235
COB 236-FB
COB 236
COB 237
COB 238-FB
COB 238
COB 239
COB 240 (1 - 16)-FB
COB 8-FB
COB 1 (14:5)-FB
COA 1 (1 - 10)
COB 145-FB
SAVSCO 6/2 (7 - 8)-FB
COA 1 (11 - 21)
SAVSCO 6/2 (9 - 14)-FB
SAVSCO 6/2
COA 1 (22)
SAVSCO 83/2
SAVSCO 182/2
SAVSCO 74-FB
SAVSCO 219/2-FB
COB 211-FB
COA 2 (1 - 3)
SAVT 4 (4:5 - 4:7)-FB
COA 2 (4 - 23)
COB 31-FB
COB 1
...

Here was my post on the Battle of Venarium, and Conan's adventures with Jormma:
CONAN
...
SAVSCO 227 (1 - 11)
KCO 9-FB
SAVSCO 227 (12 - 15)
COB 48-FB
COB 233 (10 - 24)
COB 234
COB 235
COB 236-FB
COB 236
COB 237
COB 238-FB
COB 238
COB 239
COB 240 (1 - 16)-FB
COB 8-FB
COB 1 (14:5)-FB
COA 1 FB
COA 1 (1 - 10)
COB 145-FB
SAVSCO 6/2 (7 - 8)-FB
COA 1 (11 - 21)
SAVSCO 6/2 (9 - 14)-FB
SAVSCO 6/2
COA 1 (22)
...

Reading through this we have three main events: Conan's Fifteenth Birthday ("Day of Manhood"), Conan's adventures with Jormma, and the Battle of Venarium. The main issue is that COB 235 also depicts the Battle of Venarium, but is separated from the other relevant issues by COB 236-240. Additionally there are a couple of other changes I'd make. I'll work through piece by piece:

COB 233 (10-13)
I'm pretty sure this has to come before Conan's Day of Manhood as his father gives him a knife here (which we see him hand over before fighting the bull in SAVSCO 227). As Conan's age is not specified here, this also allows Conan's friendship with Jormma to be as closely knit as we see through the remainder of the Young Conan arc.

SAVSCO 227 (1-11)
KCO 9 FB
SAVSCO 227 (12-15)
COB 48 FB
Conan's 15th birthday/Day of Manhood, nothing changed here. Note that this is stated to be "weeks" before the Battle of Venarium.

COA (5:2-5:9) FB
Conan and Rion visit Venarium, "weeks" before the battle".

COB 233 (14-24)
COB 234
COB 235 (1-12:1)
Conan and Jormma's adventures here fit within the "weeks" between his Day of Manhood and the battle pretty nicely I think.

And onto the battle, where I'll briefly note what happens in each segment. One "issue" here is the apparent differences between the account in COB 235 and the others, particularly with regards to the appearance of Venarium, and whether the Cimmerians enter the city through the gate or over the walls. This is swiftly rectified in the framing story of COB 240, where a conversation between Conan and his Queen tells us that Conan's stories over the entire Young Conan arc may not have been the most accurate. Even so, I believe this order has few conflictions, though one must ignore Conan's constantly changing attire (helmet, etc.) and the time of day, as each artist depictis Conan and the battle in a different way:

COA 1 (12-13) FB - Rion, and then Conan speak to the assembled Cimmerians
COB 235 (12:2-14) - Conan continues speaking to the Cimmerians, who then ride for Venarium. Jormma possesses a woman to open the gate.
COB 8 (3:6) FB - Aquilonian soldiers atop the wall fire crossbows down upon the Cimmerians
COB 235 (15-17) - The woman opens the gate and dies, the Cimmerians storm through, Jormma mourns the death of the woman.
COB 8 (3:7) FB - Cimmerians descend over the wall (perhaps the defending soldiers retreated once the gate opened)
COB 145 (1) FB - Conan leaps over a wall (perhaps a smaller interior wall or fence, as Conan entered through the gate)
COB 8 (4:2) FB - Conan leaps over the wall
COB 145 (2:3-2:4) - A Cimmerian fights an Aquilonian
SAVSCO 6/2 (7-8) FB - Cimmerians fight the Aquilonians
COA 1 (1-10) - Conan and Cimmerians fight the Aquilonians, at the end Conan looks on with face illuminated, perhaps as...
COB 235 (18-21) - Jormma's anger finally erupts as an explosion in the heart of the fortress. The Cimmerians dominate the remaining soldiers
COA (11-21) - The battle ends, but Rion is killed
COB 235 (22) - After the battle, Conan finds that Jormma is alive
SAVSCO 6/2 (9-14) FB - After the battle, Conan sees a beautiful girl and chases her into a cave (Jormma not present, I'd guess that after the day he's had, he went back to recover at camp)
SAVSCO 6/2 - Conan vs. the People of the Dark. Though we aren't shown it, Conan must find his way back to the site of the battle
COA 1 (22) - Cimmerians burn the corpses of the fallen. Probably the evening after the battle (which took place before dawn)

Finally:
COB 235 (23)
Probably at least a couple of days after the battle, Conan and Jormma drink in a bar. The remainder of their adventures would continue from here
And my brief post about SAVSCO 74-FB:
Reading a little further in the chronology we have SAVSCO 74-FB. Here we see a young Conan, age unspecified, hunting boar with his friend Shard. At the end of the fb, Shard knocks Conan out, and specifically heads to Venarium to become a mercenary. Additionally, SAVSCO 83/2 takes place just before this in the chronology, where Conan is almost killed by demons for hunting boar for sport. Though admittedly a minor point, I feel the two together make a fair argument that SAVSCO 74 FB should be earlier in the chronology.

Personally, I think the best placement would be immediately before the section of the chronology that I reworked yesterday
Finally, we have this section of the chronology to look at:
SAVSCO 83/2
SAVSCO 182/2
SAVSCO 74-FB (moved)
SAVSCO 219/2-FB
COB 211-FB
COA 2 (1 - 3:2)
SAVT 4 (4:5 - 4:7)-FB
COA 2 (3:3 - 23)
COB 31-FB

The main issue here is that Conan seems to skip around between Cimmeria and Vanaheim here, when in COA 2 it is heavily implied that Conan hasn't really gone far from his village since the Battle of Venarium, and that after leaving it is a significant amount of time before he returns. As such, I would restructure this part of the chronology like so:

SAVSCO 83/2 ("Spring" in Cimmeria)
SAVSCO 219/2 (Conan is sent to another village to warn of a Pictish raiding party; "Conan has seen but sixteen winters"; Battle of Venarium was "last summer"; "long cold winter to come")
COA 2 (1-3:2) [Corrected panel labelling] ("Months" since the Battle of Venarium, Conan leaves his village)
SAVT 4 (4:5-4:7)-FB (Conan leaves his village)
COB 211-FB (Conan travels North of Cimmeria after Vanir attack a Cimmerian village; Conan's "sixteenth winter"; Conan is "seventeen")
COA 2 (3:3-23) (Conan joins a band of Aesir raiders, seems to me as though this is the first time he has done so)
COB 31-FB (Conan has a solo adventure in the mountains, and loses his sword)
SAVSCO 182/2 (Conan has fought alongside the men of Aesgaard for "some time", presumably they gave him a sword)

I am aware that some of the new Marvel material takes place during this era, and if noone beats me to it I'll have a go at placing those in the chronology after I've finished my read-through of the older stuff. For now, my reworked chronology for this period looks as follows:

CONAN
COB 117-FB-FB
{COB 1 (14:4)-FB}
COB 232-FB
COB 233 (1 - 9)
COB 119-FB
COB 178
SAVT 4 (4:4)-FB
GSCO 1 (15:2)-FB
COB 130-FB
COB 128-FB
SAVSCO 89/2
COB 251-FB-FB
SAVSCO 34-FB
SAVSCO 203/2
SAVSCO 74-FB
COB 233 (10-13)
SAVSCO 227 (1-11)
KCO 9-FB
SAVSCO 227 (12-15)
COB 48-FB
COA 1 (5:2-5:9)-FB
COB 233 (14-24)
COB 234
COB 235 (1-12:1)
COA 1 (12-13)-FB
COB 235 (12:2-14)
COB 8 (3:6)-FB-BTS
COB 235 (15-17)
COB 8 (3:7)-FB-BTS
COB 145 (1)-FB
COB 8 (4:2)-FB
COB 145 (2:3-2:4)-BTS
SAVSCO 6/2 (7-8)-FB
COA 1 (1-10)
COB 235 (18-21)
COA (11-21)
COB 235 (22)
SAVSCO 6/2 (9-14)-FB
SAVSCO 6/2
COA 1 (22)
COB 235 (23)
COB 236-FB
COB 236
COB 237
COB 238-FB
COB 238
COB 239
COB 240 (1 - 16)-FB
SAVSCO 83/2
SAVSCO 219/2
COA 2 (1-3:2)
SAVT 4 (4:5-4:7)-FB
COB 211-FB
COA 2 (3:3-23)
COB 31-FB
SAVSCO 182/2
COB 1
...

As always, let me know what you think!
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by StrayLamb »

wolverine7230 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:28 am ---
SAVSCO 83/2 ("Spring" in Cimmeria)
SAVSCO 219/2 (Conan is sent to another village to warn of a Pictish raiding party; "Conan has seen but sixteen winters"; Battle of Venarium was "last summer"; "long cold winter to come")
COA 2 (1-3:2) [Corrected panel labelling] ("Months" since the Battle of Venarium, Conan leaves his village)
SAVT 4 (4:5-4:7)-FB (Conan leaves his village)
COB 211-FB (Conan travels North of Cimmeria after Vanir attack a Cimmerian village; Conan's "sixteenth winter"; Conan is "seventeen")
COA 2 (3:3-23) (Conan joins a band of Aesir raiders, seems to me as though this is the first time he has done so)
COB 31-FB (Conan has a solo adventure in the mountains, and loses his sword)
SAVSCO 182/2 (Conan has fought alongside the men of Aesgaard for "some time", presumably they gave him a sword)
---
According to COB 1, in which Conan has become a mercenary for the Aesir, and which is set during the summer, states that Conan's first taste of battle at Venarium was the previous Winter. I would believe COB 1 rather than SAVSCO 219/2.
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by wolverine7230 »

StrayLamb wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:01 pm According to COB 1, in which Conan has become a mercenary for the Aesir, and which is set during the summer, states that Conan's first taste of battle at Venarium was the previous Winter. I would believe COB 1 rather than SAVSCO 219/2.
I believe the quote to be "but a winter gone", which is similar to saying "last year"; just saying that it took place before the previous winter. At least that's if my high school English teacher is to be believed...

Nonetheless, its a null point here as it does not change the placement. It becomes more of an issue when looking at COB 201-FB which is a separate thread. Though in that case if Venarium takes place in Winter then the only way the reference to "harvest season" it that tale can be true is if it occurs before the Venarium, which doesn't work too well.
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by Col_Fury »

Thanks for the recent Conan posts, wolverine7230! My schedule is starting to open up and I plan to look over your suggestions soon. At a glance they make sense (for some reason I was working under the assumption the battle of Venarium was a prolonged conflict instead of a single battle).
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by wolverine7230 »

Col_Fury wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:30 am Thanks for the recent Conan posts, wolverine7230! My schedule is starting to open up and I plan to look over your suggestions soon. At a glance they make sense (for some reason I was working under the assumption the battle of Venarium was a prolonged conflict instead of a single battle).
Great! I'll be carrying on with my read-through once the university holiday is over - while at home I find that having a job, working on assignments and maintaining social commitments is a bit of a time drain! Have really been enjoying rereading all the Conan stuff - been a major fan of the character since a young age when my dad introduced me to comics with Giant-Size X-Men #1 and Conan the Barbarian #1. Both are among my favourites to this day!
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by StrayLamb »

wolverine7230 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:49 pmGreat! I'll be carrying on with my read-through once the university holiday is over - while at home I find that having a job, working on assignments and maintaining social commitments is a bit of a time drain! Have really been enjoying rereading all the Conan stuff - been a major fan of the character since a young age when my dad introduced me to comics with Giant-Size X-Men #1 and Conan the Barbarian #1. Both are among my favourites to this day!
Man, you gotta get rid of those social commitments! :-P

ps. I already like your dad! :D
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by wolverine7230 »

StrayLamb wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:19 pm ps. I already like your dad! :D
Well if you already like my dad, and you already like the X-Men...

Image

I joke of course....

Well only half joking, it is a great book :wink:
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Re: Conan's pre-COB 1 Chronology

Post by StrayLamb »

Nice! :thumbsup:
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