Marvel Timeline

[Midnighter]

I add another element to the construction of the timeline: in the recent America Chavez: Made in America 2 the childhood of Miss America is reconstructed, and her first exploits as a neighborhood superhero (in Washington Heights) are traced back to 6 years ago, while her decision to abandon the adoptive family, contrary to her heroin deeds, dates back to 3 years ago.

Considering we first see her in action as a full-time superhero in the mini Vengeance, shortly after Fear Itself, the timing roughly matches the timeline reported here.

[Leoparis]

For Banshee (Sean Cassidy), Siryn (Theresa Cassidy) and Black Tom Cassidy. Establishing some of the cornerstone dates, Banshhe first appeared (X-MEN #28, 1967) in 1 ME, Black Tom (X-MEN #101, 1976) in 4 ME, and Siryn (SPIDER-WOMAN #37, 1981) in 6 ME. Theresa was "twelve" when Tom put her in a boarding school, "thirteen" when she had her first drink, "fifteen" when Tom was arrested by Sean, and he was in prison "five years" (X-FORCE #31, 1994) before his release, when he teamed up with Juggernaut (X-MEN #101, 1976) in 4 ME. Thus Theresa was born in 16 BME, and her mother Maeve died later in "summer" (X-FORCE #91, 1999) shortly thereafter. Maeve was in "her first month of pregnancy" (OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE #13, 1984) when Sean went on an Interpol mission for "about a year and a half" (OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE #10, 1983), so Sean started the mission in 17 BME and ended it in 15 BME.

Sean joined Interpol, which has an age requirement of 18, and Sean also had a "Bachelor of Science" (OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE #13, 1984) at Trinity College, so he was at least age 22 when he joined. Sean was "a promising new agent of Interpol" (X-MEN ANNUAL #3/2, 1994) when Hydra abducted Patrick Lipton. He met Maeve "shortly after I'd begun working as an undercover agent for Interpol" (X-FORCE #91, 1999). He and Tom, "his older cousin" who had attended "Oxford," first met Maeve in "September," but Maeve was in love with Sean by "spring" (CLASSIC X-MEN #16/2, 1987). Sean and Maeve soon married, and afterwards Tom became a mercenary and criminal (X-FORCE #31, 1994), eventually befriending fellow criminal Cain Marko before he became the Juggernaut and was trapped in a cave in Korea in 18 BME, per Professor X's timeline. Thus the minimum dates for Sean and Tom to be born are 41 BME and 42 BME respectively, with Sean graduating Trinity, joining Interpol, lost Patrick Lipton, and met Maeve in September, all in 19 BME, fell in love with Maeve in spring, married her, Tom became a mercenary, befriended Cain who became Juggernaut, all in 18 BME.

Sean is saved from crimelord Almadovar by Deadpool, during a time when Amahl Farouk is still alive, so before 15 BME; his partner Peyer said "We've been settong up this bust for a year," and Sean said "Needed t' go my own way after my wife died," so it is possible this was the long mission that he was on when he was separated from his wife, but when Peyer states "we're finished at Interpol" (DEADPOOL #2, 1994), he was probably mistaken. Sean and Logan later discuss their encounter at the Hotel St. Cecil "twenty years" and "20 years" (CLASSIC X-MEN #26/2, 1988) in 5 ME, thus 15 BME; this was after the death of Maeve and before Logan met Jamie Hudson. Sean met Erik Lenssher while hunting a serial killer "twenty years" (GENERATION X #10, 1995) before 9 ME, and caught Arkady Rossovich "nearly twenty years" (GENERATION X #11, 1996) before 9 ME, thus 11 BME. Juggernaut escaped the cave in Korea in 4 BME, per Professor X's timeline. Sean was working briefly with the NYPD when he met Emma Frost, then "sixteen" (GENERATION X #-1, 1997), which was 11 years before she was "only twenty-seven" (NEW X-MEN #138, 2003) in 10 ME, thus 1 BME.

42 BME - Tom born
41 BME - Sean born
20 BME - Tom graduated Oxford
19 BME - Sean graduated Trinity, joins Interpol, lost Patrick Lipton, met Maeve
18 BME - Sean married Maeve, Tom became mercenary, befriends Cain, Cain becomes Juggernaut
17 BME - Sean goes on 18 month mission, Maeve a month pregnant
16 BME - Theresa born, Maeve died
15 BME - Sean returns from mission, Sean saved by Deadpool, Sean and Logan at Hotel St. Cecil
11 BME - Sean catches Arkady
4 BME - Juggernaut escaped cave in Korea, Theresa sent to private school
3 BME - Theresa starts drinking
1 BME - Sean arrests Tom, Theresa alcoholic, Sean meets Emma Frost
1 ME - X-Men meet Banshee
4 ME - Sean joins X-Men, Black Tom and Juggernaunt vs X-Men, Theresa
6 ME - Siryn appears

I've looked at your Banshee timeline because I'm trying to organize Deadpool's past appearances. Your timeline makes Deadpool at least 60 years old in present stories (he's thirty when he's treated for cancer). It also makes Theresa 22 when she appears in SW 37-38, yet according to Spider-Woman she's no more than a teenager. It seems to me it should be contracted both for Theresa and Deadpool.

For instance, in the flashback with Deadpool, I see no sign that this is before Pr X met Farouk or even that Amahl Farouk is still alive, just that his syndicate posted a million dollar tag on Almadovar's head. And both Farouk and the Shadow King turned up later after Farouk's "death" by Xavier so a Farouk apperance can happen anywhere. Per X-Force 31 Black Tom was sentenced to five years, but did he stay five years in prison? Per the same X-Force 31 he escaped with Juggernaut's help before X 101. He then met Cain Marko between IH2 172 and X 101, not before Korea. By the way the Korea War was 10 years before X 1 and 12 years before X 12 but your timeline makes it 18 years.

I'd rather put DP 2 2-FB before GEN X -1, which would make the statement that his Interpol career is over actually correct. Sean says Danny wasn't far wrong and that he needed to go his own way after his wife died, implying he did not stay that long in Interpol once his wife died.

Even if it were impossible to contract, I'd be tempted to reinterpret DP2 2-FB so that this was mercenary Wade Wilson whom Sean Cassidy met rather than the costumed Deadpool.

But I think you still need to contract it for Theresa.

[wolframbane]

Thanks for bringing this up Leoparis. I have been doing some basic Deadpool research to fit him into my timeline since I recently saw he had in 30th birthday during the months he was held by Killbrew and Ajax In Deadpool Nerdy 30. So this means he was probably 30 when he escaped Killbrew, and thereafter became the masked Deadpool. So far, the earliest DATEABLE reference to I have is his interaction with Sean. You re right in that I needed to reevaluate when DP2 #2-FB occurs. Since it is referred to as being the mission that would probably end Sean's career at Interpol, this would have to be before he first met the X-Men as Banshee in 1 ME. So if DP2 #2-FB is in 1 ME, the latest birthdate for Deadpool would be a more feasible 29 BME, and around 44 now (as a rule if there is a range of dates or ages, I make events as recent as possible and the characters as young as possible). They made reference to Amahl Farouk's gang but not Farouk himself, so he can easily have been dead, his gang banking on his reputation. And Maeve is already dead.

Another note is that just before Wade was taken by Killbrew, he saw Vindicator/Guardian fly overhead. This was probably an advanced prototype still being tested, because the "Groundhog" suit is still to be used by The Flight. I still need to research Alpha Flight and Wolverine to place these.

For GENX -1, I have this placed using the reference to Emma being 16 to place it around 1 BME, and have it 11 years before she claimed to be 27 in New X-Men #138 in 10 ME. I am using the OHOTMU statement that Sean was still with Interpol but was on special assignment on loan to the NYPD. But still ironing out Emma's somewhat contradictory history so this may change.

I will recheck Theresa's age again. The main issue is that all the ages and dates are intertwined, and adjusting one too much can affect everything. For example, Theresa's age affects when she was born and Maeve was killed, which affects the date Sean married Maeve, which affects when Black Tom became a mercenary after the wedding and the date he met Cain Marko, which had to have been before Marko became Juggernaut and trapped in a cave and during the 3 years Charles Xavier was in the Army, and his life intersects SO MANY others. Its like if you pull one thread and the web unravels, or as I prefer its like Jenga but with those industrial large blocks. Mind you, I love the challenge to intertwine it all together, but sometimes I have to accept one odd thing to allow a hundred other things to work.

The placement of wars in Marvel Time is awkward too. I subscribe to the idea that the 'true" wars of history (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Middle East) occurred in the MU as they did and exactly when they did in the real world. With perhaps the exception of WWII, superheroes saw little action during these conflicts. However, any story published in which superheroes saw action (and often published simultaneously with the comics) were part of the sliding timeline, always sliding forward so that that start of the Modern Era was like 15 years ago. With regards to wars, I figure all the conflicts affected by the sliding timeline are separate from the historical wars, and as per History of the Marvel Universe #2, 2019, the happen to be localized versions of the Sin Cong War. Officially as of now, Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, Tony Stark and Frank Castle were involved in the Sin Cong war rather than WWII or the Vietnam War, and I treat Xavier's time during the Korean war as the same. There is more to it than this, but this is the gist.

As for Deadpool's early life:
29 BME - Wade Wilson (or whomever) is born. Although there are different accounts of his childhood and either his mother or his father dying at some point, they were apparently still alive as of Deadpool v3 #34.
10 BME - Wade begins his CIA sponsored mercenary career at age 19 after being kicked out of the US Army Special Forces (Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul), note you normally have to be 20 to join Special Forces but only 18 to join the CIA (he did not actually join the CIA, join merc'd for them)
??? - Worked as mercenary, for 3 years trained as a sumo under Oyakata (not placed yet)
1 ME - Cancer returns, captured by Killbrew and Ajax, turns 30, escapes and becomes Deadpool, saves Sean

[wolframbane]

I add another element to the construction of the timeline: in the recent America Chavez: Made in America 2 the childhood of Miss America is reconstructed, and her first exploits as a neighborhood superhero (in Washington Heights) are traced back to 6 years ago, while her decision to abandon the adoptive family, contrary to her heroin deeds, dates back to 3 years ago.

Considering we first see her in action as a full-time superhero in the mini Vengeance, shortly after Fear Itself, the timing roughly matches the timeline reported here.

Much appreciated Midnighter

[StrayLamb]

Another note is that just before Wade was taken by Killbrew, he saw Vindicator/Guardian fly overhead. This was probably an advanced prototype still being tested, because the "Groundhog" suit is still to be used by The Flight. I still need to research Alpha Flight and Wolverine to place these.

I don't know if this will help at all, and you may have already factored it in, but according to Alpha Flight Minus 1, James MacDonald Hudson had already created a prototype suit while working for Am-Can Petroleum, prior to the three years he spent developing Dept H.

[wolframbane]

>I don't know if this will help at all, and you may have already factored it in, but according to Alpha Flight Minus 1, James MacDonald Hudson had already created a prototype suit while working for Am-Can Petroleum, prior to the three years he spent developing Dept H.

Thanks StrayLamb. Wolverine ironically has a pretty straightforward post-Weapon X Project timeline, and his time with Alpha Flight intricately ties in with that. Logan is one of those characters that they like to drop into other characters backstories, which makes it interesting when I try to connect him to other characters.

The prototype suit worn by Mac in AF #-1 was the more bulky "Groundhog" version also worn by Sean Bernard when he went on his first and only mission with The Flight. The problem is that the Vindicator version seen by Wade was the more streamlined version used by Mac when he was leading Alpha Flight. But it was only shown doing a flyby, and that was it. I can easily accept that this was an early "display model" that was designed for flight and to look good to the Canada military present, to show what they intended the final version to look like, but they were still in the process of upgrading and downsizing the Groundhog version.

[wolframbane]

Lizard/Curt Connors was described by Charles Xavier as "a friend from my undergraduate days" (X-MEN: FIRST CLASS #2, 2006), thus for Curt between ages 18-22. Charles was established as born in 38 BME, and was an undergaduate at Harvard and Bard from 23-20 BME. If Charles and Curt had at least one overlapping year at college, this would give him a birthdate range from 44-39 BME, with the latest being 39 BME.

Billy Connors has numerous inconsistent ages given, with him having an unspecified "birthday" (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #365, 1992), but with eleven candles on the cake, in 8 ME, "twelve years old" (SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #238, 1996) in 9 ME, "16" (SPIDER-MAN: QUALITY OF LIFE #3, 2002) in 10 ME, "a ten-year-old boy" (SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #11, 2004) in 11 ME, "thirteen years old" (SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #24, 2006) in 12 ME, and "t-twelve" (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #20, 2019) in 15 ME. These would respectively give him birth years of 3 BME, 3 BME, 6 BME, 1 ME, 1 BME AND 3 ME. The most common and feasible would be 3 BME, making Billy age 4 at his debut (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #6, 1963) in 1 ME, and age 16 at his death (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #631, 2010) in 13 ME. His age as "t-twelve" (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #20, 2019) in 15 ME could be that his cloned body was physically younger than the original. The other ages would need to be discarded. His "birthday" was also noted as being on "August thirty-first" (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #25, 2019). His mother Martha died (SPIDER-MAN: QUALITY OF LIFE #4, 2002) in 10 ME.

Per OHOTMU A-Z #6, Curt graduated medical school (age 26), became a surgeon (following a minimum residence of 3 years) by 10 BME. After 10 BME, he served as a surgeon during wartime but lost his arm (retconned to Sin Cong War), returned home in his military uniform and one arm and met Martha and young Billy at the airport, Billy was young (SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #238, 1996) but this was still before he first met Spider-Man in 1 ME. Curt then later earned twin doctorates in biology and biochemistry (normally 4 years per doctorate) to study reptilian regeneration. Since his return and earning the doctorates was between the birth of Billy in 3 BME and before becoming Lizard in 1 ME, this less than four years does not normally provide enough time for two doctorates, but it is possible that he began his doctoral work well before joining the army.

39 BME - Curt Connors is born
13 BME - Curt graduates medical school, starts residency
10 BME - Curt ends residency, becomes surgeon, begins additional doctorate research
3 BME - Billy Connors is born on Aug 31
2 BME - Curt loses arm in war, completes biology and biochemistry doctorates, begins research to restore arm
1 ME - Curt becomes Lizard, vs Spider-Man
10 ME - Martha dies
13 ME - Billy dies
15 ME - Billy (at younger age of 12) and Martha cloned

[dimadick]

Lizard/Curt Connors was described by Charles Xavier as "a friend from my undergraduate days" (X-MEN: FIRST CLASS #2, 2006), thus for Curt between ages 18-22. Charles was established as born in 38 BME, and was an undergaduate at Harvard and Bard from 23-20 BME. If Charles and Curt had at least one overlapping year at college, this would give him a birthdate range from 44-39 BME, with the latest being 39 BME.

While I found the characterizations in First Class quite interesting, Marvel has excluded it from continuity for quite some time. Search the archives.

Billy Connors has numerous inconsistent ages given

Because he was a satellite character of the Lizard, with inconsistent characterization. His appearances do not fully make sense in publication order.

before becoming Lizard in 1 ME, this less than four years does not normally provide enough time for two doctorates, but it is possible that he began his doctoral work well before joining the army.

Lizard''s backstory in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1) #6 (November, 1963) is somewhat vague.:
*Martha Connors states that her husband lost his right arm "during the war". The story does not specify whether he is a World War II veteran or a Korean War veteran.
**By Martha's account, Curt started his studies on reptiles following the war. He became a world-class expert on herpetology. Which in the real-world would require him to have a degree on biology.
*The story says that it took months of work for Curt to create his regenerative serum, and that Billy was inquisitive about his father's work. The creation of the serum appears to be a recent development in this story, but the flashback with Billy may take place much earlier.
*Before using his serum on himself, Curt tests it on rabbit. The rabbit regenerates a missing leg, and Curt observes no side-effects. The story does not explain whether there is a reptilian rabbit running around in Florida.

[wolframbane]

While I found the characterizations in First Class quite interesting, Marvel has excluded it from continuity for quite some time. Search the archives.

I personally consider First Class canon, at least in regards to my own personal research. Marvel does not appear to have so much excluded it as no longer acknowledging it, neither confirming or denying its canonicity. Personally I consider it canon as in a flashback in X-Men Prelude to Schism, the original X-Men were shown in their First Class uniforms. Other researchers our more than welcome to disregard the First Class series, but I have found them a great resource of information and does not contradicts events in any significant manner.

Because he was a satellite character of the Lizard, with inconsistent characterization. His appearances do not fully make sense in publication order. Because he was a satellite character of the Lizard, with inconsistent characterization. His appearances do not fully make sense in publication order.

I have gathered age references for probably a good 90% of the major and minor characters. Surprisingly, most do line up well with my timeline estimates. For some like Billy Connors or General Ross or even Wolverine, its a matter of gathering all the data, sifting thru it and trying to get as much to work together as possible, and what does not work, to use what works the best or is most consistent with how the character is depicted.

Lizard''s backstory in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1) #6 (November, 1963) is somewhat vague.:
*Martha Connors states that her husband lost his right arm "during the war". The story does not specify whether he is a World War II veteran or a Korean War veteran.
**By Martha's account, Curt started his studies on reptiles following the war. He became a world-class expert on herpetology. Which in the real-world would require him to have a degree on biology.
*The story says that it took months of work for Curt to create his regenerative serum, and that Billy was inquisitive about his father's work. The creation of the serum appears to be a recent development in this story, but the flashback with Billy may take place much earlier.
*Before using his serum on himself, Curt tests it on rabbit. The rabbit regenerates a missing leg, and Curt observes no side-effects. The story does not explain whether there is a reptilian rabbit running around in Florida.

There are times when I just simply do not have enough information to fill in certain areas (as of yet), but can make some educated guesses, or just be vague about certain details. Beyond his medical degree, we know that Connors later earns twin doctorates in herpetology and biochemistry (per OHOTMU). But the loss of his arm preceded his discharge from the army, and upon his return home, his son was already a young boy. As Billy was born in 3 BME (the most consistent age, making him about 4 when he met Spidey, and 16 when he died), his attaining the doctorates are in a very slim window between 3 BME and 1 ME. However, there is some "grey area" to work with to account for the time needed, as if he became a MD in 10 BME, this allowed for a few years to pursue those doctorates in part. Although his focus on herpetology became more definite after he lost his arm, there is no reason to assume he was not studying them beforehand. In addition, those who possess multiple doctorates in related fields often have overlapping credits, so its possible that the credits he recieved while studying for his MD partially covered some for his later doctorates, and even the two later doctorates may have some shared overlap as well. So its entirely possible, without resorting to the idea that every scientist is a "super-genius" like Reed or Tony who can earn two doctorates during summer break. And also keeping certain unknown details vague, while it does not confirm certain details, it leaves possibilities open. Timeline construction is not an exact science. Its like the days of the Renaissance, where you make some stuff up as you go and occassionally it even works.

[Midnighter]

I personally consider First Class canon, at least in regards to my own personal research. Marvel does not appear to have so much excluded it as no longer acknowledging it, neither confirming or denying its canonicity. Personally I consider it canon as in a flashback in X-Men Prelude to Schism, the original X-Men were shown in their First Class uniforms. Other researchers our more than welcome to disregard the First Class series, but I have found them a great resource of information and does not contradicts events in any significant manner.

I have always avoided reading the First Class series because they are considered non-canon, but now I want to read them. Do you by any chance have any references ready about how they fit together with the original X-Men stories?

[wolframbane]

I have always avoided reading the First Class series because they are considered non-canon, but now I want to read them. Do you by any chance have any references ready about how they fit together with the original X-Men stories?

It was often a very lite hearted and enjoyable series. There are a few posts here that discuss the order
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... &start=465


The chronology per metaldragon is

UX 1
XFC2 5/2 (Ouija board)
UX 2
X:FC2 5 (Hulk) ...or is this between UX 1 & 2?
A 3
UX 3
[…]
UX 7 (1-6, p3)
X:FC 1-FB (Bobby discovers Scott can't shut off powers and that Cyclops has been made team leader.)
UX 7 (6, p4-on)
UTSM 21
UTSM ’97
UX 8
X:FC 6-FB
X:FC 6 (Skrulls)
UX 9
UX 10
X:FC2 10-FB
X:FC2 10 (Scott solo mission) - This (and the flashback) might have to move if the X:FC2 13/2-FB takes place during X:FC2 2-3.
UX 11
UX 12
UX 13
XMF 3
X:FC 1 (Arctic "field trip"/Iceman's letter)
*X:FC 2 (Lizard) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
[possible placement for X:FC 5?]
X:FC 7-FB
X:FC 7 (Angel & Scarlet Witch romance) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC 8–FB
X:FC 8 (Gorilla Man)
X:FC2 2-3 (Mastermind/Monster Island) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC2 3/2 (Jean & Wanda hang out)
*X:FC2 4 (Bobby & Hank road trip)
X:FC2 14/2-FB (W confronts B & H about his water filled car)
X:FC2 6/2 (Jean & Wanda vs Moleman)
X:FC2 9 (Black Widow & S.H.I.E.L.D.)
X:FC2 12-FB
X:FC2 12 (Aunt Mimi/Worthingtons meet X-Men for 1st time)
X:FC2 13-14 (Machine Man)
X:FC2 14/2 (remembering Angel)
X:FC2 15 (Medusa) - coming soon!
UX 14 (1-6)
FF@ 3 ~ M/H&L 1 ~ MARVELS 2
UX 14 (7-20)
UX 15
[…]
UX 18
*[X:FC 2 moved]
X:FC 3 (Cerebro malfunction)
*[X:FC2 4 moved]
X:FC2 6 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 7 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 8 (Man-Thing) ~ X:FC2 11-FB (Mysterio BTS stealing swamp water)
X:FCS 1/5-FB (Dragon Man)
X:FC2 1 (FF)
UX 19
X:FC2 11 (Mysterio)
UX 20
UX 21
UX 22
[…]
UX 39
X:FC 5 (Thor) - this may have to move before X:FC2 14/2...
X:FC 4 (Dr. Strange)
X:FCS 1/1 (Museum of Oddities)
X:FCS 1/3 (Bernard the poet) - it's possible these 2 stories could fit between UX 18 & 19 too if Professor X shuts down Bernard's powers...
UX 405

[wolframbane]

I add another element to the construction of the timeline: in the recent America Chavez: Made in America 2 the childhood of Miss America is reconstructed, and her first exploits as a neighborhood superhero (in Washington Heights) are traced back to 6 years ago, while her decision to abandon the adoptive family, contrary to her heroin deeds, dates back to 3 years ago.

Considering we first see her in action as a full-time superhero in the mini Vengeance, shortly after Fear Itself, the timing roughly matches the timeline reported here.

THANKS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR MRE DATES

[wolframbane]

Wonderful work!

I've been trying to do the the same thing for the DCU (both Pre- and Post-Crisis, i won't touch Post-Flashpoint) with varying degrees of success. Has the six year undergrad of Peter Parker theory been shoved aside?

What is the last "real world" date that can be used?

Keep up the terrific work!!!
thanks man,th latest realtime date would e about 1986 when yankeeclipper jumped to the pesent. love yout dcu sitr btw

-z

[wolframbane]

Wonderful work!

I've been trying to do the the same thing for the DCU (both Pre- and Post-Crisis, i won't touch Post-Flashpoint) with varying degrees of success. Has the six year undergrad of Peter Parker theory been shoved aside?

What is the last "real world" date that can be used?

Keep up the terrific work!!!
thanks man,th latest realtime date would e about 1986 when yankeeclipper jumped to the pesent. love your dcu sitr btw

-z