WI?2 66 and some questions

[Clive_Reston]

The first page and final three panels of What If? vol. 2 #66 ("What if Rogue possessed the power of Thor?") take place in 616, with Destiny, Avalanche and Pyro just before their appearance in Avengers Annual #10. (The rest of the issue is Destiny's vision of an alternate possibility that's apparently Earth-941066.)

Of course, Destiny also appears with Mystique in M/S-H 11/3 (26 - 30:2), which raises the question of what she's doing there since she was captured with Avalanche and Pyro in X 142. Sigh.

One possibility: despite Mystique's pronouncement that "Carol Danvers dies tonight!," there's another scene break between the second and third panels of M/S-H 11/3 page 26, before X 140 and onward ("no, seriously, that's gonna have to be next time she's in San Francisco").

(And Destiny's appearance before THAT is listed as X-Men Forever (2001) #2... but her scene there, with Rogue (not listed) and Mystique, is "four days" after UX 158.)

Here's a question on Mystique (and more generally): are we tracking characters' bodies, or just their consciousness? Because if the former, then she should also show up in XFVR 2 after UX 158.

Suggested changes:

AVALANCHE/DOMINIC PETROS
M/S-H3 11/3
{X 141}
UX 142
IH2 263
WI?2 66 <-- ADD
A@ 10
ROM 31
...

DESTINY II/IRENE ADLER
...
RG3 10-FB
RG3 11-FB
M/S-H3 11/3 (1 - 25) <--CHANGE TO: M/SH3 11/3 (1 - 26:2)
{X 141}
UX 142
[[XFVR 2]] <--MOVE FROM HERE
M/S-H3 11/3 (26 - 30:2) <--REMOVE
WI?2 66 <-- ADD
A@ 10
[[XFVR 2]] <--MOVE TO HERE
ROM 31
ROM 32
...

MYSTIQUE/RAVEN DARKHOLME/"RAVEN WAGNER"/"MALLORY BRICKMAN"/"B. BYRON BIGGS"/"RONNIE LAKE"/"DALE FYFE"
...
M/S-H3 10/3-BTS
M/S-H3 11/3 (1 - 25) <--CHANGE TO: M/SH3 11/3 (1 - 26:2)
X 140-BTS
X 141
UX 142
UACC 3
UACC 4
M/S-H3 11/3 (26 - 30:2) <--CHANGE TO: M/SH3 11/3 (26:3 - 30:2)
A@ 10
UX 158
[[XFVR 2]] <--ADD, POSSIBLY?
ROM 31
...

PYRO/ALLERDYCE "JOHNNY" ST. JOHN
M/FAN 60/2
M/S-H3 11/3
{X 141}
UX 142
WI?2 66 <-- ADD
A@ 10
ROM 31
...

ROGUE/ANNA MARIE
...
M/S-H3 11/3 (30:1 - 30:2)
{A@ 10}
UX 158
XFVR 2 <--ADD
ROM 31
...

[Col_Fury]

Here's a question on Mystique (and more generally): are we tracking characters' bodies, or just their consciousness? Because if the former, then she should also show up in XFVR 2 after UX 158.

Using Vision as an example, we track his consciousness; he's had his body replaced several times and it's not like we split up his chronology every time he gets a new body. Or Psylocke/Betsy when she was placed in Kwannon's body for years.

For time displacement stories (like XFVR)... Mystique is inhabiting herself, so she's basically appearing in two points in time, even if her younger self isn't aware of it. She's essentially sleeping in the past and her current consciousness is driving the body, right? So list her in both places?

I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this, because X Lives & X Deaths of Wolverine recently did a similar thing.

[Jason Doty]

I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this, because X Lives & X Deaths of Wolverine recently did a similar thing.

Totally agree on this, the person who is inhabiting a body and the body itself, both should get a listing. I also think there could be a case to be made for a listing to stop, if there is a body swap such as "see Psylocke II (Elizabeth "Betsy" Braddock in the body of Kwanon), which would stop and return to the original listing, once they are re-inhabiting their own body, assuming they are using that same code name.

[michel]

Let's take Kitty Pryde-Earth 811, inhabitating Kitty Pryde-Earth 616 body during a whole issue: Kitty-811 has a full appearance, but Kitty-616 has only a BTS appearance?

[Leoparis]

Yes, both listings for a consciousness inhabiting a past self.

That's what we did for Captain America: Reborn.

[Russ Chappell]

Totally agree on this, the person who is inhabiting a body and the body itself, both should get a listing.

What do we do in the case of two characters swapping minds/bodies?

If the person inhabiting the body gets a listing along with the body itself, then one character's body and mind could appear simultaneously in two different books. Treat it as we did when Hulk and Bruce Banner were separate entities?

[Jason Doty]

What do we do in the case of two characters swapping minds/bodies?

First we need to list the kinds of different swaps.

1. possessed by an outside entity or alternate timeline
2. consciousness swapped or transferred to another body
3. consciousness controlled by present self to the past
4. consciousness controlled by separate personality
5. physical body co-inhabited
6. physical body merged with another physical body to create new entity

If anybody wants to add on.

[Jason Doty]

If the person inhabiting the body gets a listing along with the body itself, then one character's body and mind could appear simultaneously in two different books. Treat it as we did when Hulk and Bruce Banner were separate entities?

I just looked at Hulk, and Hulk (Bennerless), I think this looks good. A question, Wasn't Banner physically separated from the Hulk at one point, which should also get him a separate listing?

[Russ Chappell]

But it doesn't solve the problem, does it? If Mister Fantastic and Doctor Doom switch minds/bodies, and Doom's mind in Reed's body travels to the Negative Zone for twelve issues of Fantastic Four, while at the same time, Reed's mind in Doom's body is visiting Asgard in Thor, how do we list the appearances for Reed and Doom in Thor and Fantastic Four?

[Jason Doty]

But it doesn't solve the problem, does it? If Mister Fantastic and Doctor Doom switch minds/bodies, and Doom's mind in Reed's body travels to the Negative Zone for twelve issues of Fantastic Four, while at the same time, Reed's mind in Doom's body is visiting Asgard in Thor, how do we list the appearances for Reed and Doom in Thor and Fantastic Four?

Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards
...
FF 50001 (1 - 12)
see Dr. Doom II/Victor Von Doom, body inhabited by Reed Richards
from Dr.Doom II/Victor Von Doom, body inhabited by Reed Richards
FF 50013 (17 -18)
...

Doctor Doom II/Victor Von Doom, body inhabited by Reed Richards

FF 50001 (13 - 18)
T 7010
T 7011
T 7012
FF 50013 (17 - 18)

see Mr. Fantastic/ Reed Richards

Doctor Doom/Victor Von Doom
....
FF 50001 (1 - 12)
see Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards, body inhabited by Victor Von Doom
from Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards, body inhabited by Victor Von Doom
FF 50013 (17 - 18)
...

Mr. Fantastic II/Reed Richards, body inhabited by Victor Von Doom

FF 50001 (13 - 18)
FF 50002
FF 50003
FF 50004
FF 50005
FF 50006
FF 50007
FF 50008
FF 50009
FF 50010
FF 50011
FF 50012
FF 50013 (1 - 12)
See Doctor Doom/Victor Von Doom

[Somebody]

If the person inhabiting the body gets a listing along with the body itself, then one character's body and mind could appear simultaneously in two different books. Treat it as we did when Hulk and Bruce Banner were separate entities?

I mean, it's not entirely unprecedented even without body swaps - the Supreme Intelligence's ghost and corpse both appear in different Annihilation Conquest stories at the same time.