Wizard's Hulk 1/2 Issue

[Patrick D Ryall]

I've been going through a bunch of Hulk comics and have been using the MCP as a resource (thank you for it) but I have found one listing I disagree with. The item listed as "H 0.5" on the MCP is the Wizard's 1/2 issue, is listed as takinig place just before the Byrne run (with Contest of Champions in there), which makes sense because the issue seems to have been released as a prelude to that run (it even ends with "Join the Adventures Every month in the pages of -- HULK" with no adjective). But the content of the story makes it seem like a lead-in to Casey's run.

It has the corporate villain Devin DeAngelo studying Hulk for the first time (even noting that Hulk and Ross don't know he exists) and he is shown to meeth those characters in Casey's run. Also, H 0.5 has Ross talking about the makeover of Gamma Base (it had been converted from Area 102) as if it were a "new" thing, which, yes, could still be called "new" that much later, but the actual reveal of the new base is early in Casey's run as well.

Someone who knows more than me could check it out, but it looks to me like a story intended to lead into the Casey run was repurposed for the Byrne relaunch.

[Leoparis]

I've checked it out and you make compelling points. It should be moved between 467 and 468 for Banner, Ross, Rhino and D'Angelo.

[StrayLamb]

Probably straight after S&L 3 would be the best spot. Hulk's been in his old underground lab in that issue, so he's in the right location to be in another cave in H 0.5, and that positions him nicely for IH2 468. Changes required for Hulk and Ross, but the other characters remain unaffected.

Suggested updates..

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
---
IH2 466
IH2 467 (2 - 11)-FB
IH/SUB '98
IH2 467 (12 - 17)-FB
XM/IH '98
S&L 3
H 0.5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
H 0.5 * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 468
IH2 469
IH2 470-FB
IH2 471-FB
IH2 471
IH2 472 (1)
A3 10
IH2 472 (2 - 22)
IH2 473
IH2 474
H 0.5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
H 0.5 * MOVE FROM HERE
COCII 1
---

ROSS, GEN. THADDEUS E. "THUNDERBOLT"
---
IH2 466
IH2 467-FB
IH2 467/2
H 0.5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 468
IH2 470-FB
IH2 471-FB
IH2 472
IH2 473
IH2 474
DP3 25
H 0.5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
H 11-FB
IH3 16
---

[Somebody]

Changes required for Hulk and Ross, but the other characters remain unaffected.

I keep meaning to check this out more thoroughly, but at a bare minimum Devlin DeAngelo's appearance needs to move back as well.

[Somebody]

Okay, let's break this whole period down - scene-by-scene, in the order we currently have it - starting with IH2 467 (6)-FB:

• IH2 467 (6 - 9)-FB [plus (10&11:1), which falls between (8&9:4) and (8&9:5)]: Bruce is sitting in his cell on suicide watch (having already tried to kill himself once), and has - as Rick puts it - "cracked". He rambles on for a while, before becoming lucid when Rick suggests fixing Freehold's resurrection equipment, tells Rick he expects Armageddon to have destroyed it, and instantly changes into the Hulk. Hulk stares at Rick for a moment, then Ross tries to shoot him and he jumps out through the roof. (NB: We're told that, at some point following, Ross went to Freehold BTS and found it completely levelled. However, there's no pictorial representation of it and so it isn't placed)
• IH2 467 (10&11:2:1)-FB: Hulk vs. the army, no identifiable army characters. The narration suggests this was more than one battle, but that Hulk essentially beat the army badly enough that they couldn't continue the battle.
• IH2 467 (10&11:2:2 - 12&13:1:1)-FB: Banner attempts to kill himself by leaping off the Empire State Building, but the Hulk lands, leading to an OP fight with the Avengers. The narration tells us that this is only the first of many "very public" attempts by Bruce to end himself, with the Hulk never letting him finish the job. (As the narration is from Future-Rick's perspective, he may have made many less public attempts too - we know he did at least one beforehand, in Area 102 immediately after Betty's death) The only other effort we're immediately told about is him learning magic from "one of Doc Strange's enemies" to summon "Mephisto or someone to drag him off to hell", and the demon finding his suffering too much fun to do so. Future-Rick also tells us "there was also a face-to-face with Namor... and then, of course, there was... other stuff... nothing to do with Betty though."
• Incredible Hulk/Sub-Mariner '98 [IH/SUB '98]. In what has been presumably been taken to be the "face-to-face with Namor" mentioned in IH2 467 (12&13:1), Banner is in the middle of the ocean, "search[ing] for solitude... and a quiet place to take his own life". He tries to shoot himself in the head, can't do it, but almost inadvertently shoots holes in the boat and tangles his leg up. He tries to drown, but fails thanks to an intervention from Attuma and his crew, who want Hulk blood. After a serious of events, including a misunderstanding fight with Namor, and Banner telling them he wants to die, the use of Hulk blood to fix an Atlantean plague apparently gives Banner a reason to carry on. Hulk talks in the same way he does throughout PAD's latter issues - basically "normally", in a Fixit/Green Scar-esque "voice".
• IH2 467 (12&13) - Betty's funeral. This is NOT necessarily in sequence with the Banner scenes, but only Thor, Human Torch and Silver Surfer are really recognisable amongst the silhouetted figures - although presumably Ross is definitely there, and Banner (under the circumstances) isn't. Future-Rick tells us that "Everybody was there. I mean it, everybody. Everyone she'd ever known, everyone whose lives she had ever touched", so pretty much everyone she'd interacted with and was in a position to attend should technically be amongst the silhouettes.
• IH2 467 (12&13:1:6 - 16&17:6): Rick & Marlo have broken up. Banner drops in on Rick one random night. While he is no longer suicidal, he is not apparently fully sane. This scene is referenced in IH2 468 by Casey, making all the present-day segments of the issue apparently canonical, but the context of it being the last time Future-Rick ever saw Bruce is hard-dropped, since it's referenced by Rick while seeing Bruce. (This is odd, TBH - the issue is basically a summation of PAD's plans for the rest of the run - Future-Rick continues for a moment on the next page before running out of stream - but despite referencing this, Casey ignores how long all the stuff to this point actually took)
• IH2 467/2 - Ross has Betty's body kept on ice.
• X-Man/Incredible Hulk '98 [XM/IH '98] - Banner, Rick & Marlo are at a hospital in Dallas, Texas getting Rick seen to; Marlo & Rick are still together. Marlo has apparently forbidden Rick from using the exo-skeleton from IH2 465 until she thinks he's healthy enough. Banner's status as a fugitive is referenced, but he's apparently sane enough and non-sucidial enough, if unhappy, and was the one to arrange the appointment with the neurologists there by calling one of his contacts. He storms out when Rick says he knows what he's going through after losing Marlo, telling Rick that he got his wife back, and transforms into the Hulk. Hulk proceeds to jump through New Mexico and Arizona to land in the Grand Canyon, trying to get space to deal with the loss. Again, he talks normally, using full pronouns like "I". A thing with Thanos and Nate Gray ensues with no lasting effects for Hulk.
• Shadows & Light #3, story 1 [S&L 3]: Banner is searching for equipment in his old lab from the first volume of IH, but it's all "wrecked and rusting... useless". There are no specific references to any "recent" events, only IH v1 and the very early Avengers, plus his being outed as the Hulk - notably, Betty's death isn't mentioned. When a cave-in seals him in, he considers trying to die rather than "let the Hulk out", but decides he "can't let it end this way! I can't! I won't!" Once out, Hulk talks "normally" at first in that he uses pronouns, but as the air runs out, he uses pronouns less, saying "the Hulk" rather than "I" or "me". Once he breaks through to the lake above and makes it to the surface, he reverts and Banner thinks "The Hulk has been the bane of my existence... but I owe the big brute my life. Again." So, he's not actively suicidal at this point. [The preface has Roger Stern, the writer, describe it as an attempt to "compress the entire Banner/Hulk conflict down to 8 pages."]
• IH2 468: Banner's in his old Hulk-prison room (yes, the one destroyed in S&L 3...). Rick comes to find him with a change of clothes and pair of glasses. He references IH2 467 (12&13:1:6 - 16&17:6), and says he "actually believed Bruce" about love being what was important in life, but just finds him "coming down here to freak out". Rick arranges for Bruce to get onto the former Area 102, now "the new Hulkbuster base" in disguise (blond & bearded) with fake ID to use the equipment to find out if he was responsible for Betty's death or not. He thanks Rick for giving him a reason to go on. On the base, he finds out it wasn't his blood that poisoned her, but not who did, transforming before he finds out and destroying the samples. The Hulk is not heard to talk in any way (this continues until #472, when he speaks normally), although makes sure not to kill anyone and does not apparently rage out of control.
• IH2 469: Devlin DeAngelo's troops capture Banner, having found him with a gamma tracer. Banner is still bearded but no longer blond, and DeAngelo talks to him in person, bribing him with knowledge of Betty's killer to fix up the Super-Adaptoid. (When Banner's done, he confesses he doesn't know or care who did it, and Banner reprograms the Adoptoid to attack DeAngelo and leaves, although the reprogramming takes long enough to kick in for a Hulk/Adaptoid fight).
• Misc notes: DeAngelo is next seen in IH2 472 with his neck, left arm and left leg in plaster, doing a deal with Ross to help him get revenge on the Hulk. Banner shaves his full beard to a goatee between #469 (when Ringmaster hypnotises him to head to Las Vegas) and #470 (when he arrives in Vegas and finds Marlo there). Banner continues to have a goatee in human form until after he comes to terms with Ross in #474, at which point DeAngelo is arrested on Ross' orders.
  [...]
• H 0.5 (3 - 4)-FB: Banner has holed up in an "old tunnel of love in a recently closed amusement park on the outskirts of Las Vegas... doesn't get much better than this lately." His dialogue suggests that Betty's death is very recent indeed. There are -FB-FBs to the two in the place when it was open, to their original, failed wedding which was interrupted by the Rhino. He's thinking about trying to cure himself of the Hulk, but isn't suicidal. He is also clean-shaven. An explosion makes him transform.
• H 0.5: Savage Hulk - i.e., not using pronouns ("Hulk will tear tank open...") is "in [a] strange cave, enjoying his favourite beans by the canful" when he's disturbed by Rhino in a new "titanium-mesh armour". Rhino hasn't met the new boss who hired him and gave him the armour to fight the Hulk. Hulk destroys the armour, but breaks off from the fight to save a teenage couple who snuck onto a defunct roller coaster which was damaged by the fight. "Gamma-Base troops" then appear, and Hulk leaps away - the narration assures us he won't even remember the fight by the next day. When Thunderbolt Ross appears, he's told they have Rhino captured, but the Hulk got away, and makes plans to continue hunting Banner. Meanwhile, Devlin DeAngelo (uninjured) was watching the fight remotely through Rhino's armour, and is now using his satellites to track Hulk, thinking none of them even know he exists.

Okay, so where does this leave us:

X-Man/Incredible Hulk '98 must take place *before* IH2 467 (12&13:1:6 - 16&17:6), since Rick and Marlo are still together. It is currently placed afterward.

If Shadows & Light #3 is in this period, it must take place after IH2 468 owing to Banner's old base being in usable condition in the latter, despite being destroyed in the former. (His lack of reference to Betty's death in the context of his displeasure at the Hulk is at most circumstantial evidence, but is still worthy of note.) Banner being clean-shaven essentially means pushes it further to after IH2 474.

Hulk #½ is - as PDR said - mostly written as a prologue to Casey's run with Ross on Hulk's tail and DeAngelo thinking Hulk doesn't know he exists. The use of the Savage Hulk is out of keeping with the period (possibly a rewrite to make it seem more like a lead-in to Byrne's run), and Hulkbuster Base is misnamed as Gamma Base, but the general context means we can't attach significance to those.

PAD & Adam Kubert's one-pager in Marvel Comics #1000 is a sequel to the framing sequence of their IH2 467, with Rick in the same room, but looking older (like PAD himself of the later time...). Do we have an Earth-number for that?


So, that leaves us moving a bunch of issues - swapping S&L 3 and H 0.5, moving XM/IH '98 back to before Rick & Marlo's breakup - into a sequence that looks like:

[...]
IH2 467 (2 - 12&13:1:1)-FB
IH/SUB '98
IH2 467 (12&13:1:2 - 12&13:1:5)
XM/IH '98
IH2 467 (12&13:1:6 - 17)-FB
IH2 467/2
H 0.5-FB
IH2 468
[...]
IH2 474
S&L 3
COCII 1
[...]

Does this affect any characters other than Banner, Ross and DeAngelo? Well, S&L 3 is a one-hander, so that's safe. XM/IH '98 needs to split IH 467-FB for Rick, and should probably be placed *after* the funeral scene rather than before, which may affect Ross. Not sure about Rhino and the effects of moving H 0.5.

We also need to look at the H 0.5-FB-FBs - I'm pretty sure the scene with Bruce & Betty in the Tunnel of Love is new info, the failed-wedding flashbacks may be placeable between panels.

EDIT: Okay, there are four H 0.5-FB-FBs:

• H 0.5 (3:4)-FB-FB is the tunnel of love scene. Like I said, I suspect that's new, but it would need some checking. If it is new, I'd presume it would be somewhere around IH2 123-124 [maybe during the IH2 123 (7) montage?], after Banner's "cure" and reconciliation with Betty leading up to the proposal and abortive marriage which he goes on to reminiscence about.
• H 0.5 (3:5)-FB-FB is Bruce & Betty in front of the (lightly miscoloured) priest during IH2 124 (7), probably between (7:3) and (7:4).
• H 0.5 (4:1)-FB-FB is a completely generic remembrance of the Rhino, and as such unplaceable
• H 0.5 (4:2)-FB-FB is between IH 124 (14) and (15).

[Somebody]

NB: Shadows & Light #3 discussion moved to "S&L 3 and the Hulk's cave" thread, since it's tangential to the bulk of the thread.

[StrayLamb]

Changes required for Hulk and Ross, but the other characters remain unaffected.

I keep meaning to check this out more thoroughly, but at a bare minimum Devlin DeAngelo's appearance needs to move back as well.

Yep - i missed Devlin. My bad.

[Leoparis]

On the matter of who would be at her burial, we can add the rest of the FF for sure.
Other close associates who come to my mind: Leonard Samson, Clay Quartermain, Fred Sloane, Trish Starr, surviving Hulkbusters from Byrne/Milgrom (incl. Hideko Takata), her former date Ramón, her co-worker Veronica, nuns from when she was a nun in training, Pantheon members, Marlo Chandler, the Headshop.

[StrayLamb]

Following Somebody's plan, but excluding the H 0.5-FB-FBs, we get the following required changes..

DEANGELO, DEVLIN
H 0.5 * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 469
IH2 472
IH2 473
IH2 474
H 0.5 * MOVE FROM HERE
VENGEANCE 2

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
---
IH2 465
IH2 466
IH2 467 (2 - 11)-FB
IH/SUB '98
XM/IH '98 * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 467 (12 - 17)-FB
XM/IH '98 * MOVE FROM HERE
S&L 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
H 0.5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
H 0.5 * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 468
IH2 469
IH2 470-FB
IH2 471-FB
IH2 471
IH2 472 (1)
A3 10
IH2 472 (2 - 22)
IH2 473
IH2 474
S&L 3 * MOVE TO HERE
H 0.5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
H 0.5 * MOVE FROM HERE
COCII 1
---

ROSS, GEN. THADDEUS E. "THUNDERBOLT"
---
IH2 465
IH2 466
IH2 467-FB
IH2 467/2
H 0.5 * MOVE TO HERE
IH2 468
IH2 470-FB
IH2 471-FB
IH2 472
IH2 473
IH2 474
DP3 25
H 0.5 * MOVE FROM HERE
H 11-FB
IH3 16
---

Rhino and other characters appear unaffected.