The post-Inferno to end of the Krakoa era X-titles thread

[Somebody]

Only one X-book this week, IMMORTAL X-MEN #8, and it takes place entirely in 1943 and 1895--although it's narrated by Destiny in the present day. (Would Destiny then be -OP for the entire issue, and also in two different -FBs? I know narrators of flashbacks aren't often singled out, but I wonder if there's some way to signal that present-day Destiny is telling this story.)

Active problem here - as Paul O'Brien pointed out on his blog:

The timeline here is a little odd. In terms of narrative logic, this seems to be intended to fill the gap between Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix and the time travel arc in Gambit vol 3 #13-14, by which point Essex is a doctor in New York. But that story is set in 1891.

He goes on to suggest that he might have gone back & forth, but there's the whole problem of him stealing Courier's powers and so forth with that. Perhaps the tubes seen at the end got broken much earlier, and that's the Diamond clone Sinister in the Gambit issues?

[Sinister's chronology is growing increasingly impossible to wrangle into any sort of coherent whole, of course.]

[Col_Fury]

I haven't read the issue yet, but if there's narration then Mystique would be -VO and everything else would be -FB.

[Clive_Reston]

Active problem here - as Paul O'Brien pointed out on his blog:

The timeline here is a little odd. In terms of narrative logic, this seems to be intended to fill the gap between Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix and the time travel arc in Gambit vol 3 #13-14, by which point Essex is a doctor in New York. But that story is set in 1891.

He goes on to suggest that he might have gone back & forth, but there's the whole problem of him stealing Courier's powers and so forth with that. Perhaps the tubes seen at the end got broken much earlier, and that's the Diamond clone Sinister in the Gambit issues?

Honestly, dating that section of the story to (late) 1888 would have made it work just fine: it squares with Sherlock Holmes being active, the "Saucy Jacky" murders, the introduction of commercially available wax-cylinder phonographs... and, of course, Destiny's vision of the Gambit story as the future! Still long after Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace had both died, but whatever...

[Clive_Reston]

The really interesting thing this week vis-a-vis chronology is X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic #62, which starts a serial with some significant ties to the print books. It's definitely after A.X.E., and it's set on "Christmas Eve," which can easily be a topical reference. Some notable bits include Rusty Collins' resurrection, a Krakoan gate being installed in Subterranea (Kate Pryde appears), a parole vote for Sabretooth (which implies that he's back in the pit at some point after Sabretooth & the Exiles #1--per Infinity Comic #46, the council has known for a bit that the pit is empty, and as I noted a couple of weeks ago, S&E 1 takes place before Destiny of X even starts), and Xavier meeting with the Great Ring "to discuss Krakoan extradition policies" (huh; that may or may not relate to this week's X-Force #34). And then it turns into an "It's a Wonderful Life" variation on the Age of Apocalypse...

Otherwise, this week, X-Men #17 concludes the Vault story from #15-16, and X-Force #34 is at some still-indefinite point while Deadpool is still on the team. Meanwhile, Amazing Spider-Man #14 establishes that "Dark Web" takes place at some point after the the FCBD Spider-Man story.

[Michael]

Amazing Spider-Man 14 poses some issues. It's divided into 4 chapters- Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. At the start of Spring, Ben feels Limbo calling to him. At the start of Summer, Ben notes that today is an important day. He notes that Peter is off with Norman Osborn trying to save the"love of his life". He runs into the debt collector who's been plaguing Peter throughout Wells's series and the debt collector thinks he's Peter and says he's been trying to find him. Ben goes to Limbo, where he meets Madelyne Pryor.Maddie says that Limbo must have been calling out to clones ever since she took over as ruler. At the start of Fall, there's a reference to the FCBD issue. At the end of Winter, the debt collector is seemingly killed by the same method Ben plans to use to take back his memories from Peter.
Now, here's the problem- the Summer sequence is obviously supposed to take place before Amazing Spider-Man 1. In Amazing 10, Peter tells the Progenitor how he worked with Norman to save someone he loved before issue 1. Plus, in issue 1, the debt collector finds where Peter is staying. Unfortunately, Maddie takes over Limbo in New Mutants 25-28, which is the same issue where Illyana gets her new costume. Illyana has her old costume throughout Judgement Day and Amazing 10 crosses over with Judgement Day. We had a similar issue with the FCBD issue- Maddie is ruler of Limbo but Peter is wearing his old costume. (He got his new costume in issue 8.)
I think the simplest way to solve this problem is to create a gap in Summer. Spring and the first two pages of Summer, where Ben talks to the debt collector, can take place before Amazing 1.The rest of Summer, where Ben meets Maddie, can take place after Judgement Day. Ben just says it's an important day- that doesn't mean that it's the day he's going to Limbo. For all we know, he and Janine were going to a new Chinese restaurant, That leaves the problem of why Ben felt Limbo calling to him at the start of Spring- Maddie says that she thinks it was because she was ruler. But Maddie seems to be just guessing. For all we know, Limbo started calling to Ben when Illyana decided her replacement as ruler would be Maddie, a clone.
That just leaves the FCBD issue and Peter's costume. We saw Peter wearing his old costume in issue 11, so there's no reason the FCBD issue couldn't take place after Judgement Day and Peter is just wearing his old costume.
One more thing- Peter notices the debt collector is missing in issue 11, so Winter should take place before then.
So, putting it all together, the sequence is:
Spring
Summer:pages 1-2
Amazing 1-10
rest of Summer
FCBD issue
Fall and Winter
Amazing 11

[Clive_Reston]

Lots of issues this week (if only one last week), but not a lot of placement trickery. X-Terminators 3, New Mutants 32, X-Force 35, Marauders 9 and X-Men Red 9 all take place immediately after the previous issues of their respective series.

Immortal X-Men 9 is sometime not super long after Judgment Day. Nightcrawler has horns, so it's after Legion of X 7.

The storyline beginning with Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic 27 ("The Family Snikt") should be sometime before X-Men 15-17.

Dark Web #1 takes place at "Christmas," which I would like to claim as a topical reference.

Also relevant: Captain Marvel 43-44, featuring a bunch of X-people. Gambit and Rogue are both on Earth, and Scott Summers is Cyclops, so I'm gonna say it's after Knights of X 1-5.

[Michael]

The actual date is "December 13th", not Christmas.

[Clive_Reston]

The actual date is "December 13th", not Christmas.

Ah, yes, thank you! And, contrary to my earlier comment, this week's issues establish that Dark Web does have to take place slightly before Christmas... which means that we're now an in-universe year past "King in Black," which came out two real-world years ago. To quote Valeria Richards, "frankly, I don't approve." But I suppose we have to account for the six-month gap in Amazing Spider-Man somehow. That said, since Dark Web: X-Men is a separate miniseries from the regular X-Men title, I'm going to try to push Dark Web as far down the road as I can, X-Men-wise.

(Incidentally, despite the claims of a few text pages, the entire "Beyond" sequence of Amazing Spider-Man appears to take place over the course of 19 or 20 days... aside from the "days/weeks/months" bit at the end of #93, and the "weeks" part seems to be what leads into the first page of ASM6 1, right before the six-month gap.)

Anyway: this week's Dark Web: X-Men #1 overlaps pretty extensively with Dark Web #1, and I suspect a bit of creative intercutting is going to be necessary to account for Havok's whereabouts. ASM6 15 is after that.

Meanwhile, Legion of X #8 picks up immediately after #7.

[Michael]

Also, note that Maddie was in New York with Janine in Dark Web:Dusk, she's still in New York with Janine in Amazing Spider-Man 15, and she's in Limbo at the end of Dark Web: X-Men 1. I THINK the idea is that the end of Dark Web: X-Men 1 takes place after Amazing 15.

[Clive_Reston]

This week's WOLVERINE #28 picks up shortly after #27, and covers a bit of time. Logan can't appear anywhere else between the beginning of #26 and later-than-when-we-are-now, and we seem to have covered more than a few weeks.

SABRETOOTH & THE EXILES #2 follows right on the heels of #1 and doesn't take more than a few hours, which means... we're still back before the beginning of "Destiny of X"!

X-MEN ANNUAL 1 features Illyana in her new armor (and refers to AXE:JD as being in the past), so it's at some point after New Mutants 25-28.

This week's Dark Web tie-ins all take place right around the same time as earlier Dark Web stuff; it's kinda looking like the whole event will take place over just a day or two.

And, in the dept. of even vaguer speculation, it looks like Gerry Duggan is setting some stuff up for the X-titles in Invincible Iron Man (involving Feilong and Sentinels)... and it seems like Immortal X-Men 9 was the start of a continuous sequence that will lead into Sins of Sinister, so I am tentatively moving it to the very end of my current X-chronology.

[Hiham]

Sorry to bother you but could you put up a list of these titles so far. It starts to be difficult to follow up them.

[Michael]

Maddie appears in Dark Web:Ms.Marvel 1 playing the piano, so that's probably the same sequence during Dark Web:Dusk. And Chasm's scene with Kamala is the same scene from Amazing Spider-Man 15.
The really weird thing about Mary Jane & Black Cat 1 is that Felicia knows that Ben is calling himself Chasm and has a red-headed accomplice. (Maddie? Janine?) But Amazing 15 ended with Peter realizing Maddie and Janine are working with Ben and then being attacked by Ben immediately afterward. So there doesn't seem to be any space for him to have told Felicia and no one else seems to have worked out that Ben is working with Maddie and/or Janine. We'll see if there's an explanation in Amazing 16.

[Clive_Reston]

Sorry to bother you but could you put up a list of these titles so far. It starts to be difficult to follow up them.

OK! Here's the current most-recently-updated version of how the whole thing looks...

I. BETWEEN INFERNO & DESTINY OF X

X Lives of Wolverine 1
X Deaths of Wolverine 1 (actually starts before the end of Inferno 4)
X Lives of Wolverine 2
X Deaths of Wolverine 2
X Lives of Wolverine 3
X Deaths of Wolverine 3
X Lives of Wolverine 4
X Deaths of Wolverine 4
X Lives of Wolverine 5
X Deaths of Wolverine 5
Wolverine 20-23 (very shortly after X Deaths 5, except for last two pages of 23, which are just before X-Force 30)
X-Force 25-26 (soon after X Deaths)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 22-25 ("a few weeks" after "Latitude")
Marauders 27 (Emma leaves Hellfire; Feilong's Martian outpost is open)
X-Men 8 (not super long after 5-7)
Marauders Annual 1 (new crew is lined up, Emma gives Kate the box)
X-Force Annual 1 (Emma is no longer running Hellfire but there's an active Marauders crew; Beast with one eye; Quentin Quire still around)
X-Force 27-29 (a bit of time has gone by since 25-26, but Magneto is still on the Council, and X Lives/Deaths is pretty recent; Quentin Quire goes away)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 26 (this one takes place on "St. Patrick's Day," which has to be a topical ref., but it's here for the sake of numbering; really, it's fine just about any time in the Krakoan era)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 28
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 29-33
S.W.O.R.D. 9-11 (the "debacle with Phobos" could be either Way of X 5 or X-Men 6)
Devil's Reign: X-Men 1-3 (flashback sequences notwithstanding; Scott is still Captain Krakoa)
Sabretooth 5 (the whole miniseries spans the period from HoX/PoX to here, but this one ends sometime after X Lives/Deaths; Birdy not yet resurrected)
Sabretooth and the Exiles 1-2 (starts very shortly after Sabretooth 5)
Secret X-Men 1
Excalibur 24-26 (it's been "months" since X of Swords)
X-Men 9-10 (Nightcrawler with goatee)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 35-40 (Maggott story; Scott is Captain Krakoa)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 41 (Generation X reunion)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 42-43 (Cypher gets his face burned and it's still somewhat burned for the epilogue "weeks later"; no subsequent sign of that, though)
Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic 1-4 (Iceman; can really go anywhere around here)
X-Men & Moon Girl 1 (barely an X-Men story, only Logan and Havok appear)
Elektra 100 (Storm appears on one page in her "regent" outfit, could go anywhere)
Ghost Rider 5-6 (Logan appears, could go anywhere, here for the sake of convenience)

II. DESTINY OF X, PART 1

Immortal X-Men 1-2 (Magneto quits the Council, Hope joins it; Nightcrawler with goatee)
Immortal X-Men 3 (not long at all after 2, Storm is "off at another Arakii challenge"; it's "weeks" before Judgment Day)
Black Panther 3-4 (Storm in "regent" outfit)
Legion of X 1-2 (Hope is on the Council; Storm in "regent" outfit)
Legion of X 3 (the day after 2; Birdy has been resurrected at some point)
Knights of X 1-5 (Storm as "regent," Legionnaires are up and running, X-Men include Polaris)
X-Men Red 1-2 (Magneto has just quit the Council, Storm switches from "regent" costume to "Brotherhood" costume)
Giant-Size X-Men: Thunderbird 1 (John Proudstar gets a new costume)
X-Men Red 3 (Thunderbird in new costume; Xandra still on throne)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 44-49 (new Marauders crew is operating; Birdy is back; Sinister is present on the Council; footage from Giant-Size X-Men: Thunderbird 1 has been altered; the Council learns that Nature Girl and Curse are not in the Pit; really the only time for this to happen is between pp. 3 and 4 of X-Men Red #3!)
Marauders 1-4 (Xandra killed)
X-Men 11-12 (mutant immortality outed; ends the morning of the Gala)
Free Comic Book Day 2022: Judgment Day (3rd story, the night before the Gala; note that the first story is evidently around the time of X-Men (2021) 5-7, i.e. before Inferno, since we're seeing Scott's resurrection)
X-Men Red 4 (no more than 2 days after 3, and in the meantime Xandra has been killed and mutant immortality outed; appears to be the day of the Gala)
Marauders 5 (Xandra and then Kate resurrected, in time for the Gala; last page is a bit later)
X-Men: Hellfire Gala 1
X-Men: Hellfire Gala Confessionals Infinity Comic (right before and after the election)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 50-55 (during the Gala, just after the election)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (happens the night of the Gala)
Immortal X-Men 4 (begins the morning of Gala day, ends the next night; Sinister kidnapped)
Black Panther 5-8 (Storm in Brotherhood costume, has to be after X-Men Red 4, this is the earliest it can be)
Legion of X 4 (David already knows about Moira; AXE hasn't happened yet)
Legion of X 5 (last few pages lead us right up to AXE:JD 1)
Ms. Marvel & Wolverine 1 (Storm in Brotherhood costume, Scott is Cyclops)
Fortnite X Marvel: Zero War 1-5 (Storm in Brotherhood costume, AXE hasn't happened yet)

III. A.X.E.: JUDGMENT DAY

A.X.E.: Eve of Judgment 1 (Sinister has already been kidnapped)
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 1 (maybe the next day?)
Immortal X-Men 5 (during Judgment Day 1)
X-Men Red 5-6 (during Judgment Day 1)
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 2
A.X.E.: Death to the Mutants 1 (during Judgment Day 2)
X-Men 13 (during Judgment Day 2)
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 3
A.X.E.: Death to the Mutants 2 (during Judgment Day 3)
Immortal X-Men 6 (during and after Judgment Day 3)
X-Force 30 (mostly a bit earlier--and the first three pages are right after #29--but makes sense to read right before #31)
X-Force 31 (after Judgment Day 3)
Wolverine 24 (concurrent with X-Force 31, supposedly)
Wolverine 25 (leads into...)
X-Force 32-33 (concurrent with Judgment Day 3-4)
Marauders 6 (after Judgment Day 3)
X-Men 14 (after Judgment Day 3)
Avengers 60 (after Judgment Day 3)
Fantastic Four 47 (after Judgment Day 3)
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (after Judgment Day 3, last scene is partway through Judgment Day 4)
X-Men Red 7 (overlapping with Judgment Day 4)
Legion of X 6 (frame story extends from roughly Judgment Day 2 to a little past X-Men Red 7)
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 4
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 5
A.X.E.: Avengers 1
A.X.E.: X-Men 1
A.X.E.: Eternals 1
Immortal X-Men 7 (despite the editorial note, it's mostly during Judgment Day 5)
A.X.E.: Death to the Mutants 3
A.X.E.: Starfox 1 (DttM 3 and this, as a pair, run in parallel with the three one-shots above)
A.X.E.: Judgment Day 6
A.X.E.: Judgment Day Omega

IV. DESTINY OF X, PART 2

Legion of X 7-8 (quite soon after the end of AXE; Nightcrawler has horns)
Marauders 7-9 (shortly after the end of AXE)
X-Men Red 8-9 (shortly after AXE)
Immortal X-Men 8 (takes place entirely in the past, but can be read here)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 56-58 (Madrox and Strong Guy, placement-agnostic)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 59 ("Halloween," but that's a topical reference)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 60-61 (Hope, Exodus, Moonstar)
X-Terminators 1-3 (placement uncertain, maybe soon after AXE)
New Mutants 25-28 (post-AXE, because this is where Magik gets her new look, and she passes through Limbo during AXE)
Wolverine 26 (tentatively)
Knights of X 1-5 (resurrections from Otherworld deaths no longer warped)
[Captain Marvel 43, 44, ? - Scott is Cyclops; Rogue & Gambit on Earth; tentative placement]
Marvel's Voices: Pride (2022) #1 (8th story) ("weeks" before New Mutants 31)
Deadpool 1-2 (Deadpool counts as an X-book now, I guess?)
Wolverine 27-28 ("weeks" and then "days" have passed since the bulk of 26; Deadpool still in X-Force; Beast builds skull HQ)
X-Force 34-36 (Deadpool still in X-Force; Beast has skull HQ)
New Mutants 29 (Daken/Scout/Warpath one-off)
Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic 27-[??] ("The Family Snikt": before Laura II comes back)
New Mutants 30 (Magik in new armor, Deadpool kicked off Krakoa)
Midnight Suns 1 (Magik in new armor)
X-Men 15-17 (Magik in new armor)
X-Men Annual 1 (after AXE; Magik has new armor)
Free Comic Book Day 2022: Spider-Man/Venom (1st story, after NM 25-28 because of Madelyne)
New Mutants 31-32 (Escapade has been on Krakoa for a few weeks)
DARK WEB goes here, sequence still uncertain
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 62- [?] ("Christmas eve" sometime after AXE, mostly a dream sequence; tentative placement)
Immortal X-Men 9 (Nightcrawler has horns; I'm assuming this is this late because it seems to lead into Sins of Sinister)

[Hiham]

Thanks, this helps a lot.

[Midnighter]

I would best see the "Snikt family" serial on Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic placed after Daken and Scout's story on New Mutants 29, based on the relationship between the two and Gabby's desire to strengthen family ties.