Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Chronology issues surrounding the non-Marvel Universes/Timelines.

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Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Somebody »

Okay, kind of a marker for later use, but Death's Head's chronology appears to be a mess. It currently ends in:

DEATH'S HEAD | EARTH-5555
[...]
DWHOMAG 173
IDH 12
DHII 1 (1 - 18:2)
DHII 1 (18:3 - 20:1) ~ DHII2 9 (9:1:3 - 10)
DHII 1 (20:2 - 20:4)
DHII2 9 (14:1 - 14:3)
DHII 1 (20:5)
DHII2 9 (14:4 - 15:1)
DHII 1 (21:1)
DHII 1 (21:2 - 21:4) ~ DHII2 9 (15:2 - 15:4)
DHII 1 (21:5)
DHII2 9 (19)
DHII 1 (21:6 - 22:2)
DHII 1 (22:3 - 22:5) ~ DHII2 9 (21)
DHII 1 (22:6)
IDH 2
IDH 3-BTS
IDH 4-BTS
IDH 5
IDH 6
IDH 7-BTS
IDH 8-BTS
IDH 9-BTS
IDH 10-BTS
IDH 11
IDH 12
DHGOLD
REVWAR:DHII
REVWAR:WARH
REVWAR:O
UX SPEC
IM SPEC
NO7 2
NO7 3
GOTG:DO
BB 3
ICDWN:DHAWK 1
ICDWN:DHAWK 2
ICDWN:DHAWK 3

But he dies and is absorbed into Minion (later Death's Head II) in DHII #1. And the appearances in IDH & DHGOLD are of the "ghost in DHII's head" type.

So why are REVWAR:DHII and onward placed at the end of his chronology? I haven't gone through them all yet (hence "marker for later use"), but REVWAR:DHII is quite clear:

Image

It's before DHII 1. And, since he's human-sized but in his classic look, presumably after the sequence from DWHOMAG 135 - where he gets shrunk to human size - to DH:BIQ, where a long run of serialisation ends. Some time c. FF 338.

The obvious suspicion is that all the post-REVWAR appearances are also misplaced, but (again) I haven't checked those yet.
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Somebody »

Okay, quick notes on status in each issue. This is... uh... worse than I thought. AVENGSM 17 is also clearly in the wrong place, and everything post-DHGOLD definitely needs to get pulled back. And he appears to bounce between giant and human size whichever way you put it.

This is in current order:

DH:BIQ-FB - human-size, classic design
HNT - classic design
SWORD - giant-size, SWORD design, epithet "freelance peacekeeping agent" supposedly coined by Beast
AVENGSM 17 - human-size, classic design, working for TVA, stranded on present Earth-616 (also, a time loop of sorts - his head gets ripped off, the TVA bring in an earlier version, and an epilogue shows the head is still alive but stuck in addition to the version which gets "lost")
IM5 - giant-size, SWORD design, pre-Transformers
TRUK - giant-size, classic design
DWHOMAG 135 - shrunk to human-size, classic design
DCLAWS-DH-BIQ - human-size, classic design
FF 338 - human-size, classic design, working for TVA
SENSH 24 - human-size, classic design, 2020 Earth, "stole [time] bike from" TVA
IDH 11 - human-size, classic design
DWHOMAG 173 - human-size, classic design
IDH 12 - human-size, classic design
DHII - killed, absorbed by Minion, becomes Death's Head II
IDH - ghost in DHII's head
DHGOLD - DHII temporary reversion
REVWAR:DHII, REVWAR:WARH, REVWAR:O - human-size, classic design, DHII is "future self", recruited by DHII's sidekick, references Iron Man
UX SPEC, IM SPEC - Human-size, classic design
NO7 2-3 - human-size, SWORD design
GOTG:DO - human-size, SWORD design, referred to as "freelance peacekeeping agent"
BB 3 - classic(ish, bit off)-design, human-size, referred to as "freelance peacekeeping agent"
ICDWN:DHAWK - human-size, weird design (actual teeth?!), BIQ revelations referenced

Provisional thought would be to pull anything SWORD design but human-sized (NO7, GOTG:DO) back before SWORD, since he clearly grows before that as he's human-sized in his origin. He may have grown *while* in that design. (This does go against the idea Beast coined the FPA epithet, but otherwise we're adding yet more growing & shrinking...)

AVENGSM goes forward into the FF 338/SENSH 24 sort of range, and REVWAR gets pulled back into that sort of timeframe too. UX SPEC/IM SPEC(/NO SPEC) he's wearing an olive costume that's familiar, I'd want to recheck for that. ICDWN:DHAWK has to go somewhere between DH:BIQ and DHII, weird design just needs to be elided over.

Time-travelling and dimension-jumping chronologies, man... and this is before we look into Death's Head (2019) - human-sized, classic design... maybe follow-up on AVENGSM 17?

@Col_Fury, any thoughts?
Last edited by Somebody on Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Adding BB 3
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Col_Fury »

I'll need to look into it to double check, but I'd say you're on the right track.
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by loki »

Given Death's Head's comments about Iron Man and his body being recently rebuilt, I'd suggest the writer at least intended that sequence to be soon after Iron Man 2020 ripped DH's head off in Death's Head I#10. Since that story led almost directly into the DH: Body in Question GN, then between that GN and DH's next adventure might make sense.
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Somebody »

loki wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:57 am Given Death's Head's comments about Iron Man and his body being recently rebuilt, I'd suggest the writer at least intended that sequence to be soon after Iron Man 2020 ripped DH's head off in Death's Head I#10. Since that story led almost directly into the DH: Body in Question GN, then between that GN and DH's next adventure might make sense.
That would probably entail moving DH's (physical, non-cyberghost) appearances in IDH back, since REVWAR should probably be after IDH for him - since he doesn't know about DHII at all in there, while the Seventh Doctor wipes his memory to keep it that way - and he learns about him again in REVWAR, even ultimately leaving with him(!). Which may get complicated...

One other note from IDH - SENSH 24 is "one of [DH1's] last visits to Earth", so that definitely goes close to DHII 1 either way.
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by loki »

Somebody wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:05 am
loki wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:57 am Given Death's Head's comments about Iron Man and his body being recently rebuilt, I'd suggest the writer at least intended that sequence to be soon after Iron Man 2020 ripped DH's head off in Death's Head I#10. Since that story led almost directly into the DH: Body in Question GN, then between that GN and DH's next adventure might make sense.
That would probably entail moving DH's (physical, non-cyberghost) appearances in IDH back, since REVWAR should probably be after IDH for him - since he doesn't know about DHII at all in there, while the Seventh Doctor wipes his memory to keep it that way - and he learns about him again in REVWAR, even ultimately leaving with him(!). Which may get complicated...
Valid. I mean, it's not impossible, and might even be bizarrely humorous, for the Doctor to be repeatedly wiping DH's memories ("No Doctor, I will not let you wipe my memories, yes?" "Funny, that's exactly what you said the last seven times."), but we've got no solid evidence for it. And we could argue that Tuck recruiting DH in REVWAR created a divergent version - we've seen evidence of that with other time travellers - but that would also hold true for multiple other stories where either DH time travels, and that would effectively shatter their chronologies. Better to assume that except where we have solid evidence of a divergence happening (e.g. the What If where DH survived encountering Minion) we have a single timeline for each version.

And having just written that, I can't help but wonder if the REVWAR writers actually did intend to have Tuck's actions create a divergent version of DH who didn't get absorbed into Minion, thus allowing them to use both versions as contemporaries in future.

In terms of placing the other appearances:
DWHOMAG 173 - human-size, classic design

He also had his TVA time cycle - it's visible outside the bar in IDH:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix8/maruthea.htm#tva
So that would place the DH inside the bar from around the same time as FF338.

And of course there's the question of placing his cameo appearances in Marvel UK's Real Ghostbusters and Sleeze Brothers.
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Somebody »

loki wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:11 pmAnd having just written that, I can't help but wonder if the REVWAR writers actually did intend to have Tuck's actions create a divergent version of DH who didn't get absorbed into Minion, thus allowing them to use both versions as contemporaries in future.
Mebbe, but we haven't seen any follow-up to that, so :shrug:
loki wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:11 pmIn terms of placing the other appearances:
DWHOMAG 173 - human-size, classic design

He also had his TVA time cycle - it's visible outside the bar in IDH:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix8/maruthea.htm#tva
So that would place the DH inside the bar from around the same time as FF338.
Well, in FF 338, he's riding the time bike and working for the TVA. He gets knocked out of the time when his bike gets hit by one of the Kangs and doesn't appear again in the arc. In SENSH 24, he has a damaged time bike he stole from the TVA. The implicit conclusion is that he doesn't go back to the TVA after FF 338, but just keeps the bike-as is. If we accept this (which I think we should *unless* another story forces otherwise), he shouldn't work for the TVA after FF 338.

Okay, so basic principles here from the 80s/90s stories:
1) Per DH 1 and IDH, Scarvix was his first memories "learning the basic tricks of the business". In other words, nothing where he's Death's Head can go before DH 1-FB & HNT, yes?
2) The archive in IDH is thankfully vague about what happens between the above and Transformers - it at least implies that he went straight from Scarvix to the TRUK universe and was enlarged there, but (partly because of rights issues, I expect) it skims over most of that. The Doctor claims responsiblity at the end for sending him into "the robot universe", but not the rest (incidentally, it looks a lot like he does that, for him, AFTER he first meets him at the Crossroads of Time, but luckily we don't need to bother with that, huh?).
3) The whole sequence between the Crossroads of Time and Body in Question (taking in Dragon's Claws & his ten-issue series, and the epilogue L&TDH-VO) is tight enough that we shouldn't put stories in there unless they actually and explicitly take place during that time, not least since we don't need to - there's a big, open gap after that.
4) Sensational She-Hulk #24 is after he last works with the TVA, and steals a time bike on the way out. It's also "one of his last visits to Earth" before he's killed and absorbed by Minion in DHII, so it should stay close to DHII 1 regardless of what else we do.

Also, Avenging Spider-Man 17 (AVENGSM 17). Oh boy. First, within the parameters of artist variations, he's in his classic look and wearing the costume he got back in DH 1, so after that. [Side-note: This is Spider-Ock, but he recognises Death's Head based on a previous encounter Parker had with him?] He's been hired by the TVA, no time bike. Spider-Ock then knocks DH's head off. Unlike when IM2020 did the same thing [apparently he does not retain control of his body?). Oborus (the TVA guy) immediately shouts "pull Death's Head from an earlier point in the timestream... minus 425.37" and the earlier DH notes that this is "another bounty for the TVA", so he's worked for them before. Spider-Ock then knocks the earlier version out of the window. After everything is resolved, both DHs remain in the timeframe, but the TVA "assume a correction was made" and he's gone - the earlier one picks himself up off the street, the later head complains about being left lying on the floor when everyone left.

I mean, the simplest resolution to this is "assume the 'young' DH fixes up the 'older' model, then immediately gets grabbed by the TVA to become the older model and get his head knocked off." And then the "older" one sticks around in the present-day to appear in UX SPEC, BB 3, ICDWN:DHAWK, the 2019 DH mini, etc?
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Re: Death's Head (Earth-5555) in REVWAR and on

Post by Giant Ant »

There is also his appearance in the UK mag Marvel Heroes #33, written by Simon Furman.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_H ... )_Vol_1_33

While the story takes place on Earth-9411 (UK mags universe), it could be the original Death's Head.
He has his classic look, and is hired as a bounty hunter by the D'Bari. He fights that universe's Hulk.
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