The post-Inferno to end of the Krakoa era X-titles thread

[Clive_Reston]

On looking at Legion of X 7 again, the first three pages are immediately after Kurt has grown horns, so that scene will have to be before Infinity Comic 80-85 and Marauders 11-12.

New Mutants: Lethal Legion 5 finishes up that miniseries. No specific placement needs beyond "sometime after New Mutants 31-33."

As of X-Men Red 13, an indefinite amount of time has gone by since #12... which is good, since it's going to need to include a break to catch up to the other X-books. (Although it's not yet clear where we are vis-a-vis this year's Gala, or any other ongoing titles.)

[Clive_Reston]

Well THAT was sure a week in X-comics.

The 2023 Hellfire Gala is interwoven with Invincible Iron Man 8 and the Free Comic Book Day 2023 special that's Uncanny Avengers on its cover and Avengers/X-Men in its indicia. Here's how it all appears to work:

X:HG2023 (1) -FB --"X weeks ago," before X6 23
IIM4 8 (1-2) --Tony and Jen Walters, the afternoon of Gala day
X:HG2023 (2-5) --very shortly before the Gala
FCBD2023:A/X (1) --break-in at the Treehouse
X:HG2023 (2-5) --early at the Gala, Cyclops responds to the alarm, Destiny and Mystique arrive
FCBD2023:A/X (2) --Destiny and Mystique leave (see note below)
FCBD2023:A/X (3-8) --Cyclops thrown off Treehouse as it starts to burn, Captain Krakoa suit stolen
TIMELESS2 (13) -FF --Treehouse burning
X:HG2023 (6-9) --Xavier, Ms. Marvel, Rogue, Captain Marvel, Rasputin IV, G.O.D.S., Magik at Gala
FCBD2023:A/X /2 (1-2) --Captain Krakoa attack in Washington
IIM4 8 (3) --Tony hears about the Washington attack and suits up
FCBD2023:A/X /2 (3-5) --Steve Rogers attacked in Brooklyn; activates distress beacon
X:HG2023 (10 - 11:5) --Avengers get the signal and depart, immediately followed by Rogue

(Note: per FCBD2023:A/X (2), Rogue "just flew off at mach three." But when we see that happen, she's responding to Rogers being attacked, which is responding to Captain Krakoa's attack in Washington, which happens after the Captain Krakoa suit has been stolen... so, uh, Rogue flew off very quickly earlier that evening for some other reason, I guess! Or that scene is out of sequence.)

IIM4 8 (4:1 - 4:2) --Tony hears about both actions and reroutes for Brooklyn
FCBD2023:A/X /2 (6) --Rogue rescues Steve
IIM4 8 (4:3 - 4:5) --Tony, Rogue, Steve. ("Anybody hurt?" "Just my motorcycle. And my pride." And maybe also the ORCHIS people who blew themselves up? COLD, STEVE)
X:HG 2023 (the rest of the issue) --oh dear
IIM4 8 (5-20) --later that night
FCBD2023: A/X /2 (7-8) --the next day, Stark Sentinel at Preston house

The Gala also seems to be after X-Men Red 13, since there's now "rumors of civil war on Arakko." Generally, all the X-titles set in the present day are now aligned at last.

Meanwhile, Wolverine 35 wraps up the giant Weapons of X serial that's been going on for most of a year. Conveniently, it is not linked to anything at all recent. It clarifies that Wolverine 33-35 are between pages 6 and 7 of X-Force 39, and leaves Logan free to do basically anything for an extended period before the Gala. So... I'm going to say that Wolverine 27 (4-20) to 35 and X-Force 34-42 are all a good long way back, before New Mutants 30 /2 and the current Deadpool series.

[Michael]

Meanwhile, Wolverine 35 wraps up the giant Weapons of X serial that's been going on for most of a year. Conveniently, it is not linked to anything at all recent. It clarifies that Wolverine 33-35 are between pages 6 and 7 of X-Force 39, and leaves Logan free to do basically anything for an extended period before the Gala. So... I'm going to say that Wolverine 27 (4-20) to 35 and X-Force 34-42 are all a good long way back, before New Mutants 30 /2 and the current Deadpool series.

I'm not agreeing that Wolverine 33-35 are between pages 6 and 7 of X-Force 39.Note that Laura is with them- she joined X-Force in the last half of X-Force 39. And Sage says on the data page "We have all seen the future. We know what Beast is capable of." That's a clear reference to the futures in X-Force 40-42. The way I see it is X-Force 39-42 and Wolverine 33-34 happen concurrently after Wolverine reveals Beast's treachery to the Quiet Council. Then X-Force convinces the Five to resurrect Omega Red (we'll just assume the Five resurrected him quickly after hearing how horrific the futures where Beast ruled the world were) and they all join up in Wolverine 35 for the grand finale.

[Clive_Reston]

Michael - good point, thank you!

This week: a lot.

The present-day scenes of X-Men 25 and Astonishing Iceman 1 both take place "X weeks" after the Hellfire Gala.

X6 25 (1 - 3) -FB is shortly after the first scene of Marauders (2019) 1--Kate's got a broken nose.
X6 25 (22) -FB is after Forge goes through the gate in X:HG2023. (The preview of Children of the Vault 1 suggests that that page's final panel is the next morning...)
X6 25 (28 - 39) -FB are immediately before, during, and immediately after the final scene of X:HG2023.
X6 25 (4 - 5) -FB is very shortly after that.
X6 25 (23 - 25) -FB is a day later (Kamala has been "trapped in the tunnel all day").

Scarlet Witch #7 (and therefore at least the final scene of #6) are not too long after the Gala.

Both stories in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1 seem to be soon after the Gala (there have been mutants seeking asylum at the Limbo Embassy, and Anna Watson's Krakoan meds backfire).

Magneto #1 is set sometime in the "Magneto's the new headmaster" period of New Mutants--I'm going to wait and see if anything in the miniseries pinpoints exactly when.

X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic (2021) #98 continues the Polaris serial that's been going on since #96; it's pre-Gala '23 for sure.

And Love Unlimited: Gambit & Rogue Infinity Comic #61 is set "a few (maybe even several) years ago," sometime pre-Krakoa.

[Michael]

The second story in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1 is weird. The authorities seem to be covering up that there's something wrong with the Krakoan meds. Paul asks if the mutants could be behind this and Peter replies "Not a chance" but he'll contact Wolverine. So it seems like Peter, Paul and MJ have no clue there's something wrong with the meds. But the news of the massacre at the Hellfire Gala was released before the Gala ended and a few hours later, in Invincible Iron Man 8, Feilong tells Emma Frost that an arrest warrant has been issued for her for poisoning the Krakoan meds.
So when does this take place? Let's ignore that Wolverine left Krakoa before the Gala- Peter might not know that. But if it takes place after the Gala, then Peter, Paul and MJ should know about the drugs. And if takes place before the Gala, then why doesn't Peter just go to the Treehouse?
(And why is the medicine being triggered? Is Orchis doing this to punish the mutants? Or is the poison being released prematurely in certain individuals for whatever reason?)

[Clive_Reston]

On reflection (thank you again, Michael!), that second story in the ASM Annual could better go around the time of X6 22, when Nimrod, Stasis et al. are testing out the drug exploit: "How many more of these are we gonna do?" "This will be the final test if it goes like the others." It seems like they've been doing it for a bit but it hasn't yet made the headlines, although there are "rumors of people acting out violently." And Peter wouldn't have seen Logan in a bit anyway--"I'll track down Wolverine," he says.

[Midnighter]

Yes, there is nothing to indicate in the second story of ASM Annual that the Hellfire Gala has already happened.
If there are "rumors" about Krakoan medicines, it must be the MODOK and Stasis experiments seen in X-Men 22.
Although the last test was mentioned there, the ASM Annual story should take place after, since it takes place after Ms Marvel's death, which is communicated to Scott in X-Men 23.
That Peter wants to talk to Wolverine rather than go to the Treehouse may be motivated by the fact that Logan already knows his identity and his situation with Mary Jane and can talk to him more freely about Anna's condition.

[Clive_Reston]

The main body of Immortal X-Men #14 is, as expected, "X weeks" after the Gala. There's also an extended flashback to the day after the Gala. It's real good.

Children of the Vault #1 starts with a 3-page scene that goes from immediately after the Gala to the next evening, then goes to "weeks" after the Gala (when Cable has been captured for "over a month"), and then jumps forward another month... although I suspect that a lot of stuff that happens in that second month is going to have to be undone somehow.

X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic #99 wraps up the Polaris story that's been going since #96.

Spider-Man Annual #1 guest-stars Logan/Wolverine, and at a quick glance doesn't have particular placement considerations, though I may have missed something. It's part of Contest of Chaos.

Ghost Rider/Wolverine: Weapons of Vengeance Alpha is branded as a Fall of X story (and starts a crossover that will include Wolverine #36), but doesn't mention the Gala. Most of it, though, is a flashback that may take some finessing. For the X-Men, it seems like it's in the relatively short gap between Uncanny X-Men #138 and 139: Logan has never heard of Stevie Hunter, Kitty and Angel are both at the Xavier School (and Kitty's not getting along with Nightcrawler), etc. And... for Ghost Rider, Johnny Blaze and Roxanne Simpson are a couple, it's been "a year" since Crash Simpson died, and Johnny's performing in "the Crash Simpson Stunt Cycle Extravaganza" at the "New York Colosseum," where he's trying to "break the record of eighteen buses jumped" (there are 20 in the image). (Crash was killed trying to jump 22 limousines, so that's a bit of a stretch...) Ghost Rider aficionados: is there a way this can work for Johnny?

[Michael]

The main body of Immortal X-Men #14 is, as expected, "X weeks" after the Gala. There's also an extended flashback to the day after the Gala. It's real
Ghost Rider/Wolverine: Weapons of Vengeance Alpha is branded as a Fall of X story (and starts a crossover that will include Wolverine #36), but doesn't mention the Gala. Most of it, though, is a flashback that may take some finessing. For the X-Men, it seems like it's in the relatively short gap between Uncanny X-Men #138 and 139: Logan has never heard of Stevie Hunter, Kitty and Angel are both at the Xavier School (and Kitty's not getting along with Nightcrawler), etc. And... for Ghost Rider, Johnny Blaze and Roxanne Simpson are a couple, it's been "a year" since Crash Simpson died, and Johnny's performing in "the Crash Simpson Stunt Cycle Extravaganza" at the "New York Colosseum," where he's trying to "break the record of eighteen buses jumped" (there are 20 in the image). (Crash was killed trying to jump 22 limousines, so that's a bit of a stretch...) Ghost Rider aficionados: is there a way this can work for Johnny?

The problem is this- Roxanne gets amnesia in Ghost Rider 28, cover dated 2/78. By issue 75, she has her memory back and is looking for Johnny. But she doesn't find him until the end of issue 79. In issue 80, which continues directly from issue 79, Roxanne tells Johnny that someone's stealing people's souls in her hometown. They go to her town, find out it's Centurious and have a confrontation with him that ends in issue 81, where Johnny loses his powers.So Johnny and Roxanne really shouldn't be together while Johnny has his powers after Ghost Rider 28, unless we create a gap in issue 80, which would be awkward. "Let's perform in New York and then help those people get their souls back". Besides, Ghost Rider 80 is cover dated May 1983. Kitty joins the school in Uncanny 138, cover dated 10/80. She meets Stevie Hunter in issue 139, Stevie Hunter is kidnapped in issue 145 and Logan discusses with Storm and Xavier what to do about her kidnapping in that issue, Kitty gets over her fear of Nightcrawler in Uncanny 148 and Wolverine meets Stevie in issue 152, coved dated 12/81. There's no way to make this work without moving Ghost Rider's chronology years relative to Uncanny X-Men.

BTW, in the main story in Amazing Spider-Man 31, the crime lords mention rumors that the Kingpin is back and looking to regain his former position. This might be a reference to the Kingpin becoming the new White King of the Hellfire Club but it's not definitive.

[Clive_Reston]

Another massive week for X-books!

Iron Man Annual 1 is the second part of "Contest of Chaos," and is definitely pre-Gala '23 (though after the beginning of the current Invincible Iron Man series), which suggests that so is the rest of that sequence.

X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 100 starts a new group of stories about this year's X-Men candidates, set just before this year's Gala. X-Men: Hellfire Gala Last Rites Infinity Comic collects three very short strips (first posted on social media) that take place at the Gala, right before and after the election.

X-Men Red 14 (1-9) are very shortly after this year's Gala; pp. 10-20 are "70 days" (literally X weeks!) later.

Uncanny Avengers 1, Dark X-Men 1 and Alpha Flight 1 are all in that nebulous "X weeks later" zone. Ghost Rider 17 establishes that the "Weapons of Vengeance" crossover is sometime after the Gala too.

Then there's Marvel's Voices: X-Men. The first story is a Rogue & Gambit thing that could well be pre-Krakoa (in the Mr. and Mrs. X period, maybe?); the second story is Jean Grey and Emma Frost "in the early days of Krakoa" (the Quiet Council is a new thing--it could even be between HoX/PoX and X5 1); the third and fourth stories involve Iceman on Arakko, first with Solem and Kobak and then with Storm (and Blob, who's in Madripoor for some reason), and can easily fall in the flexible period between the Brood story (Captain Marvel 49) and the Rogue & Gambit mini. The sixth is Mystique and Destiny, and a note says it's circa "Days of Future Past." The seventh is Prof. X and also appears to be in the early days of Krakoa, but after the Narthex is up and he's gotten his own body back, so I'm gonna say after X5 7.

And, er, there is also a fifth story in there, and if anyone would like to propose a moment at which Jubilee and Lady Deathstrike would have been casually hanging out together, I am all ears.

[Michael]

The second story in Dark X-Men 1 has an intricate chronology. Everything up to Wednesday takes place before the Bishop: War College series since the Fenris twins appear and aren't in the pit yet on Wednesday. Thursday takes place concurrently with the Gimmick story in Marvel Voices: Pride 2023. Gimmick seems to be in her old costume in Bishop: War College and her new costume debuts in Marvel Voices: Pride. Does this mean that Gimmick's appearance in Marvel Voices: Pride should take place BEFORE Bishop War College. Or should we just assume that the Fenris twins implemented their schemes in Bishop: War College on Wednesday and got stuck in the Pit and then Bishop fought Snot and infestation on Thursday?
Also, on "Wednesday" Ben Reilly complains that Maddie didn't convince Peter to help him. But in the last pages of Dark Web: Finale Ben refuses Peter's offer of help. So should we assume the sequence in Dark X-men 1 takes place BEFORE the sequence in Dark Web: Finale or the other way around?
The first three pages of Uncanny Avengers 1 with Stasis, MODOK and Captain Krakoa take place shortly before the Gala. It's implied during the issue that Captain Krakoa is either

Spoiler:

Hydra Cap or William Burnside. Captain Krakoa is surprised to learn mutants have their own state. If he's Hydra Cap that has implications for the relative placement of Coates' Captain America and House of X.

[Clive_Reston]

The perils of reading digitally: I totally missed that there was a second story in Dark X-Men 1! Thanks once again

The kind of help Peter offers in DWEB:F (which seems to be "let me see what I can do about your imprisonment") isn't quite the kind Ben is complaining about not getting in DX2 1/2 ("give me all your memories"), and the Limbo Embassy seems to have just been founded as of the final scene DWEB:F. Although the new backup is shortly after the Embassy opened, so it could be the other way around too.

As for Gimmick's costume: my axiom these days is that when mutants get a new costume, they add it to their wardrobe, and wear the older ones when they feel like it (cf. Cyclops wearing his '90s costume in X-Men, Magik going back to the black costume in Immortal, various times Storm has worn older costumes, etc.). Mutant fashion!

More broadly, though, the War College/Pride 2023 thing is maddening, because the new team Bishop is training, including Gimmick, is apparently new as of the last page of War College 5. (The Struckers get stuck in the pit earlier in the issue... and then the previous team Bishop trained get their grades the next morning at dawn.) And they seem to have been training for at least a little while as of the Pride 2023 story. I suppose it's possible that the final page of War College 5 is after Pride 2023--doesn't really matter which way it goes--but Fenris at the Embassy on Wednesday and Gimmick's team there on Thursday is stretching it. Um. I suppose the "Wednesday" and "Thursday" don't actually have to be the same week? In any case, War College should take place as soon as possible after the end of Dark Web. (Which is, fortunately, where I had it in my personal order!)

Another little logjam: Albert Louis/Feedback turns up in Alpha Flight #1, having been living with his family in California, where he had been pretending not to be a mutant--"I haven't used my powers in years." Buuuuut he was also killed in Marauders vol. 2 #11, after having been a prisoner in Santo Marco. I suppose he could have been resurrected speedily and sent back home with some kind of excuse (or Emma Frost-type memory revision), but... this is what happens when two different writers come up with a super deep cut that nobody else could possibly have remembered because they haven't been seen for almost 30 years, etc.

One further note from this week: in Daredevil #14, which time-jumps "six months" from the previous issue, Butch notes that Wilson Fisk "hasn't been using" the Fisk name. Hm.

[Midnighter]

Then there's Marvel's Voices: X-Men. The first story is a Rogue & Gambit thing that could well be pre-Krakoa (in the Mr. and Mrs. X period, maybe?);

Manacle should have been exterminated with all the other Neo in 2011's X-Men: Giant Size, so this story should take place before...
I don't know how well it would reconcile with Rogue's costume and the presence of Odessa Drake...

[DotStinks]

One further note from this week: in Daredevil #14, which time-jumps "six months" from the previous issue, Butch notes that Wilson Fisk "hasn't been using" the Fisk name. Hm.

Can Daredevil 14 occur after X-Men 20 & 23 but before the Gala? Fisk in Kraoka seems to be a private thing.

[Jason Doty]

Clive_Reston wrote about Marvel Voices: X-Men v1 #1

And, er, there is also a fifth story in there, and if anyone would like to propose a moment at which Jubilee and Lady Deathstrike would have been casually hanging out together, I am all ears.

I believe this would be between a short period between the current Deadpool series first arc (based on Lady Deathstrike's look and attitude) and the Gala, where Jubilee dies.