Daredevil Annual (2018)

[StrayLamb]

Can this story possibly be canon.?

It occurs "years ago" when Misty Knight was a detective for the NYPD 28th Precinct, is partnered with Det. Carmen Torres, doesn't have a bionic arm, and in fact shuns the use of bionics, yet is also set at some point after a very public battle between Daredevil and Bullseye. During this battle, Carmen Torres' husband/boyfriend, a medic named Jorge, was tending to a collateral victim of the battle, when he himself is killed by one of Bullseye's weapons. Mutant Growth Hormone is also a plot point in this story.

In Iron Fist #6 (August 1976), the flashback to Misty losing her arm occured "years gone," when she was a patrolwoman in the Twelfth Precinct, although she has elsewhere (i can't remember where) been said to have been a lieutenant, partnered with Lt Rafael Scarfe. Bullseye debuted in Daredevil #131 (March 1976), and none of his early battles with DD were particularly public, or would seem to involve collateral victims. Mutant Growth Hormone came along much later.

[Col_Fury]

MGH is one of those things that have only been around for a few years, but has cropped up in retcon stories. I'm not too worried about that one.

Misty being in certain precincts doesn't bother me much either; it could be an error, she could have transferred, she could have been filling in for someone on vacation, etc.

The "years gone" reference in IF 6... eh. It basically translates to "it was a while back."

Misty was still active as a police officer at least as of ASM 121-122 (she was one of the responding officers to Osborn's "corpse") (ASM 121-122 came out in 1973). As long as this Annual can happen before the flashbacks that show her arm getting blown off, that's fine. M/PRM 21 (after her new arm FBs) came out in 1975, and she also appears in CX 2/2 (which is between X 94-95), also in "1975."

Bullseye vs. Daredevil might be where it gets tricky. Daredevil's 1973-1975 comics are DD 95-128, and as noted Bullseye's first appearance is in DD 131. That's pretty close to DD 128, but by this time Misty's already had her arm replaced and has left the police force. On the face of it that doesn't seem like it can work...

Do we see the Daredevil/Bullseye fight in this Annual (via flashback or something)? Is it possible they're talking about a Daredevil/Bulls-Eye fight? (the Bulls-Eye from NFAOS 15 (from 1969) who hasn't been seen since)? Yeah, that guy was shot in the chest in his only appearance but he could have been wearing Kevlar. Also, yes, I know that's not the intention of this Annual.

If we do see the fight, I'd have to re-read DD 131 to see if it's "definitely" the first meeting between the two; could there have been "unknown" interactions between Daredevil and Bullseye before DD 131?

[StrayLamb]

Bullseye vs. Daredevil might be where it gets tricky. Daredevil's 1973-1975 comics are DD 95-128, and as noted Bullseye's first appearance is in DD 131. That's pretty close to DD 128, but by this time Misty's already had her arm replaced and has left the police force. On the face of it that doesn't seem like it can work...

Do we see the Daredevil/Bullseye fight in this Annual (via flashback or something)? Is it possible they're talking about a Daredevil/Bulls-Eye fight? (the Bulls-Eye from NFAOS 15 (from 1969) who hasn't been seen since)? Yeah, that guy was shot in the chest in his only appearance but he could have been wearing Kevlar. Also, yes, I know that's not the intention of this Annual.

Bullseye isn't named as such, but it's clearly him in the flashback, no mistake, due to both his outfit and MO. The DD/Bullseye battle is depicted as a past event, although how far in the past is undefined, while during the "current" story, Misty appears to have her real arm (she even mentions that cops are the real heroes, "and we can manage without bionic whatchamacallits").

If we do see the fight, I'd have to re-read DD 131 to see if it's "definitely" the first meeting between the two; could there have been "unknown" interactions between Daredevil and Bullseye before DD 131?

DD 131 certainly does seem to be DD and Bullseye's first meeting, and in each of their later meetings, DD is able to recognize his distinct heartbeat. Looking at DD 131, i suppose it's possible their very first battle could have been more public that it appeared. DD is seen swinging above New Yorkers in the panel immediately prior to his being ambushed by Bullseye, and it's about their only outdoor battle, which Bullseye wins.

Even if the flashback is to DD 131, that means the bulk of the story is sometime after DD 131, even if it's immediately after it. That would mean placing a whole year's worth of Iron Fist's after DD 131. That may be doable, but Iron Fist's interactions with other characters thru this period would have to be checked to make sure that's possible. Even then, we would end up with Misty losing her arm virtually immediately before her Iron Fist appearances.

[Clive_Reston]

It's a two-panel flashback with voice-over, though--a small enough thing that it could just be an art error. Squint hard enough at those panels that the person Daredevil's fighting looks like the Masked Marauder or somebody, and the problem goes away...

[StrayLamb]

If we're going to put it down to an art error, then i'm steering back towards Col_Fury's suggestion of Bulls-Eye. The costumes are similar, and since we don't know much about him, it's possible he had a greater range of skills than we were shown in NFAOS 15. In that one and only appearance, we are told that Hydra had tested him for some weeks prior to sending him after Nick Fury, during which time he performed a number of assassinations. Perhaps he also decided to take on DD during those weeks. That would bring the time frame back to a more manageable area.

[Michael]

MGH is one of those things that have only been around for a few years, but has cropped up in retcon stories. I'm not too worried about that one.

Jason Aaron started the problem in Dr. Strange 11 when he showed Strange using MGH in a flashback before encountering the Ancient One. Bendis tried to explain this away in a flashback in Spider-Men II 3- a young Miles Morales saves a young Wilson Fisk from a guy using MGH. Miles explains that there's a fortune to be made in MGH but right now the drug is too unperfected and too dangerous. So presumably any appearances of MGH before Maximum Security are the unperfected version.

[loki]

MGH is one of those things that have only been around for a few years, but has cropped up in retcon stories. I'm not too worried about that one.

Jason Aaron started the problem in Dr. Strange 11 when he showed Strange using MGH in a flashback before encountering the Ancient One. Bendis tried to explain this away in a flashback in Spider-Men II 3- a young Miles Morales saves a young Wilson Fisk from a guy using MGH. Miles explains that there's a fortune to be made in MGH but right now the drug is too unperfected and too dangerous. So presumably any appearances of MGH before Maximum Security are the unperfected version.

Sadly, but unsurprisingly, that "fix" doesn't really help, not unless we accept that MGH was around for decades before being perfected. Strange met the Ancient One in the early 1960s, and was active as a sorcerer by 1965.

[Michael]

MGH is one of those things that have only been around for a few years, but has cropped up in retcon stories. I'm not too worried about that one.

Jason Aaron started the problem in Dr. Strange 11 when he showed Strange using MGH in a flashback before encountering the Ancient One. Bendis tried to explain this away in a flashback in Spider-Men II 3- a young Miles Morales saves a young Wilson Fisk from a guy using MGH. Miles explains that there's a fortune to be made in MGH but right now the drug is too unperfected and too dangerous. So presumably any appearances of MGH before Maximum Security are the unperfected version.

Sadly, but unsurprisingly, that "fix" doesn't really help, not unless we accept that MGH was around for decades before being perfected. Strange met the Ancient One in the early 1960s, and was active as a sorcerer by 1965.

Strange's age seems to vary Depending on the Writer- some write him as having met the Ancient One in the 60s, others have Strange's friends from medical school, etc., show up looking under 60.
In any event, it seems like Bendis intended that it took a very long time to perfect MGH, since it was invented years before the Kingpin became the ruler of New York's underworld, so the time it took to perfect it can be stretched as long as we want.

[loki]

Jason Aaron started the problem in Dr. Strange 11 when he showed Strange using MGH in a flashback before encountering the Ancient One. Bendis tried to explain this away in a flashback in Spider-Men II 3- a young Miles Morales saves a young Wilson Fisk from a guy using MGH. Miles explains that there's a fortune to be made in MGH but right now the drug is too unperfected and too dangerous. So presumably any appearances of MGH before Maximum Security are the unperfected version.

Sadly, but unsurprisingly, that "fix" doesn't really help, not unless we accept that MGH was around for decades before being perfected. Strange met the Ancient One in the early 1960s, and was active as a sorcerer by 1965.

Strange's age seems to vary Depending on the Writer- some write him as having met the Ancient One in the 60s, others have Strange's friends from medical school, etc., show up looking under 60.

Yes, as is all too common, some writers just don't seem to have gotten the memo. Ironically, it's the reverse of the normal problem - we more commonly run into writers who don't get that there's a sliding timescale and that events from 1960s comics didn't take place in the 1960s, whereas here it's the other way around. Strange's stories published in the 1960s don't take place in the 1960s, BUT we've had multiple stories confirming that he was active well prior to the "modern era."

[StrayLamb]

Yes, as is all too common, some writers just don't seem to have gotten the memo. Ironically, it's the reverse of the normal problem - we more commonly run into writers who don't get that there's a sliding timescale and that events from 1960s comics didn't take place in the 1960s, whereas here it's the other way around. Strange's stories published in the 1960s don't take place in the 1960s, BUT we've had multiple stories confirming that he was active well prior to the "modern era."

Shouldn't this part of the duties of the editor or senior editor of the group, to make sure the stories are on track?

[Leoparis]

This issue is quite a chronology challenge. The writer and her penciler did not have a good grasp of 1970s chronology.

This is supposed to be Misty Knight when she was a police officer, before she had her bionic arm.

In the bedtime stories we see Dr Strange, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Punisher, Spider-Woman, Black Widow, Iron Man, Captain America, Falcon (red-white costume with wings). If there are bedtime stories told about these characters, we should be in the second half of the seventies. But this is too late for Misty.

On the other hand, these characters could be reinterpreted as heroes imagined by the little girl. Indeed, the script only mentions Daredevil, Spider-Man, Captain America and the Falcon.

The Daredevil-Bullseye fight has to be with the earlier Bullseye before his death in NFAOS 15.

But where to place the present part? We would like it to be close to the time when the bedtime heroes were active but Misty lost her arm years before she appeared in Iron Fist.

Misty's comment "we manage without bionic whatchamacallits" is understood as an ironic statement. But what if she already has her bionic arm but is still in denial about it? This is not an innocent statement anymore but self-hatred. That's a perfectly valid reading. She wants to pass as normal and her hostility toward heroes reflects her hostility for her bionic arm. Her acceptance of Daredevil in this story is what leads her to acknowledge her bionic arm.

Note that in Iron Fist 6 flashback, she was just a patrolwoman. So just from this she should already have her bionic arm in DD@5 1. And her "appearances" in MTU 1 and ASM 123 would be after her recovery. This also seems to be how the writer envisioned Misty's chronology from the contemporary Bronze Age heroes she featured.

Misty loses her arm "years ago" as a patrolwoman > flashback between DD and Bull's Eye (before NFAOS 15) > DD@5 1 Misty as police detective > M/PREM 21 (1st Misty as private detective)

I place DD@5 1 as close as possible before M/PREM 21 to have most 70s heroes active--including Cage, Punisher, winged Falcon, and Iron Fist; excluding only Moon Knight (Aug 75) and Spider-Woman (Feb 77).

The placement for DD is tentative. I don't quite get why GSX 1 with 1974 issues is placed before Iron Fist origin in the 1975 chrono listing. If it's because the flashback mission occurs circa DEF 15-16, keep in mind that there is another mission (Deadly Genesis) after that and then the recruitment of the current team which should allow for the main part of GSX 1 to take place more or less with other early 1975 issues.


DAREDEVIL/MATT MURDOCK
DD 117
DD@5 1
DHKF 8/2

KNIGHT, MERCEDES "MISTY"
UTSM 8-BTS
*{M/TU 1} move from here
*ASM 123-BTS | cf MARVELS 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION move from here
DHKF 33/2 (15:3)-FB
DOD 4 (9:1 - 11:4)-FB
IF 6 (4:5)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:5)-FB
DOD 4 (11:5 - 12:3)-FB
IF 6 (4:6)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:6)-FB
DOD 4 (12:4 - 12:5)-FB
IF 6 (4:7)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (13:3)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (16:2)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (17:2)-FB
*{M/TU 1} move here
*ASM 123-BTS | cf MARVELS 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION move here
*DD@5 1 add here
CX 2/2
M/PRM 21

TURK II already placed

[michel]

I've goofed when I implemeted DD@5 1, I've placed it for the minor characters but not for DD and Misty.

I intended to have DD@5 1 near M/TU 1, so between DD 77 and 78, M/TU 1 is a bit after DD 77 for Spider-Man. I dismissed the 70es heroes appearances as they're not real. And I supposed Misty had not her bionic arm yet.

[Leoparis]

I've gone over some of Misty's back history.
IF 6 says "patrolwoman" as does PM&IF 50 (narration only). In PM&IF 59 it says "policewoman" but she's depicted as a patrolwoman, replicating the panels from IF 6. She and Rafael Scarfe were stopping at the bank to cash their paychecks when someone threw a satchel with a bomb in it.

UTOS 8 mentions "patrolwoman Misty Knight" (in the text article on the first page) as well as Rafael Scarfe, so this is when they are partners.

Per the narration in PM&IF 50 Rafe has been her partner for five years when the bomb takes her arm. So this annual where she has a different partner must be after she lost her arm.

Her profile in Marvel Fandom wiki states she rose to detective before mentioning her arm getting blown up. This probably comes from DOD 4 where she's from the bomb squad. "Five years ago" from 2006 would put the incident during the Bronze Age, that is too late for it being "years ago" from IF 6. So that profile probably needs a revision.

The incident in DOD 4 is so different from the one in IF 6 and PM IF 50 & 59, that it might as well be a different one. (Different haircut, different unit, different clothes, different circumstances, intervening with SWAT rather than random occurrence, Scarfe not present.)

This gives the following sequence:
"patrolwoman" with "partner Rafael Scarfe" for "five years" bomb incident "years ago" (from 1977's IF 6's standpoint) > re-education with Colleen Wing (DHKF 33/2) > gets bionic arm but hides it and is openly dismissive of augmented humans > becomes detective (DD@5 1) > bomb squad on her own "Five years ago" (from 2006's DOD 4 standpoint) > quits police > joins Colleen as private detective (M/PRM 21)

Rather than a different incident, DOD 4-FB can also be reinterpreted as a nightmare since Misty is unconscious before and after that sequence. But the attempt to integrate it with the 1970s version is too jarring to be left.

The mentions of resigning police rather than working at a desk job are not sourced back to a comic book. (But I recognize the line from the Charlie's Angels TV show.) Assigning her to a desk could also be interpreted as a decision not to have her take such a risk as she did in DOD 4-FB if that was her second bomb incident. Her superiors might have thought she had a death wish.

Misty's infiltration of Bushmaster's organization in IF 15 and MTU 63-64 is probably what led DD@5 1's writer to think Misty was a police detective circa 1977.

I noticed a possible bts for Blake Tower on the last page of PM&IF 50.

There are two additional arguments for placing DD@5 1 after losing her arm and receiving her bionic arm:
DHKF 33/2 established she reeducated herself after losing her arm through the practice of martial arts with Colleen Wing.
It's obvious in DD@5 1 that she's a skilled martial artist (pages 8, 22, 24).
Her right arm is grabbed on page 25 and yet she frees it and is using it on page 26 to hit a GBH pumped-up freak.

KNIGHT, MERCEDES "MISTY"
UTSM 8-BTS
*{M/TU 1} remove brackets, move from here
*ASM 123-BTS | cf MARVELS 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION move from here
DHKF 33/2 (15:3)-FB
*DOD 4 (9:1 - 11:4)-FB move from here
IF 6 (4:5)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:5)-FB
*DOD 4 (11:5 - 12:3)-FB move from here
IF 6 (4:6)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:6)-FB
*DOD 4 (12:4 - 12:5)-FB move from here
IF 6 (4:7)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (13:3)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (16:2)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (17:2)-FB
*M/TU 1 | cf M/TU 64 move here, add cf
*ASM 123-BTS | cf MARVELS 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION move here
*DD@5 1 add here
*DOD 4-FB move here (or delete)
CX 2/2
{M/PRM 21} add brackets

TOWER, BLAKE
DD 148
*PM&IF 50-BTS add
PM&IF 51

This is what the corrected Misty listing will look like:
KNIGHT, MERCEDES "MISTY"
UTSM 8-BTS patrolwoman with Scarfe
DHKF 33/2 (15:3)-FB
IF 6 (4:5)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:5)-FB
IF 6 (4:6)-FB-FB
PM&IF 59 (11:6)-FB
IF 6 (4:7)-FB-FB patrolwoman with Scarfe, bomb incident
PM&IF 59 (13:3)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (16:2)-FB
DHKF 33/2 (17:2)-FB
M/TU 1 | cf M/TU 64
ASM 123-BTS | cf MARVELS 10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION patrolwoman
DD@5 1 lieutenant, new partner
DOD 4-FB (here or deleted if it's a nightmare) bomb squad
CX 2/2
{M/PRM 21} private detective

[intp]

I only recently read Dd 108-119 for the first time (in MMW v.11) and was checking chronological placements when I saw this issue placed between Dd 109-110. I checked this issue, which I hadn't read before, and saw that Bullseye appeared in it, but the Chronology Project lists the character as the one-shot character Bulls-Eye from Nfaos 15, who died in that sole appearance.

Leoparis alerted me to this existing thread, and when I read through it, I see the problem is pretty severe for many reasons. I always read Daredevil as first meeting Bullseye in Dd 131-132, which occurs a significant time later. MGH is itself a big problem, as I don't recall that even being known about before Bendis' run on Daredevil, though I could be wrong about that. And there's the big problem about Misty Knight.

I'm not sure it's possible to resolve these issues in any satisfactory way. I tend to agree with the position that it may be necessary to deem this non-canon, as the writer, artist, and editors clearly weren't even vaguely trying to make this work with existing continuity. I've always kind of wondered also about Misty Knight being retroactively stated as first appearing in M/tu 1; that could well have been someone else, but that's a knottier issue that probably doesn't help with this discussion.

[Col_Fury]

Misty being in M/TU 1 was Kurt Busiek, by way of an anniversary edition of MARVELS, right?