Starmasters 1-3, Thor 491-494, CPU 4-5 & Silver Surfer 111-122

[StrayLamb]

Looking at Starmasters 1-3, Silver Surfer 111-122, Cosmic Powers Unlimited 4-5 and Thor 491-494, we get the following overall chronology..

SS3 111 (3:3 - 4:2)-FB [Probe 100 approaches convergence point, buzzes past Quasar, who is installing a Big Ear dish, and fails]

STARMAS 1 (1 - 11) [Quasar is installing a Big Ear, when he receives a distress call from mom. He jumps to Earth-space, where he encounters the Hub-Station]

T 491-FB [Thor calls on Odin, who renounces him]

T 491 [Thor battles the Automatons, discovers the Worldengine, and is knocked out]

STARMAS 1 (12 - 15) [Quasar's image is faked and broadcast across the galaxy, picked up by Silver Surfer & the Grand Vizier of Asgard, among others. Beta Ray Bill asks Odin to remove his enchantment, when the Vizier reports, and Odin asks Bill to perform one last service]

SS2 111 (1 - 3:2) [Probe 1010 fails to reach the convergence point. Probe 101 also fails. Beta Ray Bill has a moment of faintness and Odin asks if his request troubles Bill. This scene takes place after STARMAS 1 (1 - 15), making SS3 111 (3:3 - 4:2), which must take place before STARMAS 1 (1 - 15) a flashback]

STARMAS 1 (16 - 22) to STARMAS 3 [Ends with Bill vanishing]

CPU 4 (1 - 10) [Silver Surfer discovers Bill has teleported to Asgard and goes after him]

T 492-494 [Bill lapses into a coma. Thor is rescued by Amora, and has been unconscious for a day]

CPU 4 (11 - 18) [Bodies are removed from the Hub and returned to their home planets, where the Axi-Tun plague is released]

CPU 5-FB [Silver Surfer reaches Asgard and transforms Bill with his Power Cosmic]

CPU 4 (19 - 39) to CPU 5 [Surfer returns from Asgard with Bill, who has been transformed]

SS3 111 (4:3 - 22) to SS3 122 [The Uni-Lord Saga. During this story, Surfer's essence is split into 12 bodies in SS3 114, and isn't reconstituted until SS3 118. There can be no breaks during this story, so Surfer can't appear anywhere else between SS3 111 & SS3 122. He next appears in SMTU 2, which is stated to occur after SS3 114, and therefore also after SS3 122]

Because Silver Surfer 111 and Starmasters 1 overlap, some individual character chronologies appear on the surface to contradict each other, but are in fact correct for the individual characters. Beta Ray Bill and Quasar correctly list SS3 111 before STARMAS 1, while for Silver Surfer and Odin, SS3 111 occurs after STARMAS 1, making Surfer's listing incorrect. SS3 113, & 115-120 don't even appear in Silver Surfer's listings. Neither do Uatu's appearances in SS3 111, 112 & 114.

Suggested updates..

SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD
---
SS3 110
SS3 111 * MOVE FROM HERE
SS3 112 * MOVE FROM HERE
SS3 114 * MOVE FROM HERE
STARMAS 1
STARMAS 2
STARMAS 3
CPU 4
CPU 5-FB
CPU 4
CPU 5
SS3 111 * MOVE TO HERE
SS3 112 * MOVE TO HERE
SS3 113 * ADD
SS3 114 * MOVE TO HERE
SS3 115 * ADD
SS3 116 * ADD
SS3 117 * ADD
SS3 118 * ADD
SS3 119 * ADD
SS3 120 * ADD
SS3 122-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SS3 121 * MOVE TO HERE
SS3 122 * MOVE TO HERE
SMTU 2
FF 413
SS3 122-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SS3 121 * MOVE FROM HERE
SS3 122 * MOVE FROM HERE
SS/SUPERMAN
---

ODIN/ODIN BORSON
---
T 490
T 491-FB * ADD FB NOTATION
STARMAS 1
SS3 111 * MOVE FROM HERE
T 492
T 494-OP
CPU 5-FB
SS3 111 * MOVE TO HERE
JIM 511-FB
---

THOR/THOR ODINSON/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON"
---
ULTRAF2 2/2
T 491-FB * ADD
T 491
T 492
T 493
T 494
---

UATU
---
FF 400
SS2 111 * ADD
SS2 112 * ADD
SS2 114 * ADD
UX 335
---

[michel]

I'm not sure I've understood everything in the Uni-Lord Saga ^^ but in SS3 114, the end of page 7 and the beginning of page 8 speak of a what if, to me that's why SS3 113 and 115-120 are not in the Surfer's chronology.

[StrayLamb]

Yeah, i don't quite get it all either.

Lots of characters appear in stories that get erased one way or another at the end, but we still list them in their chronologies. I'm not sure i see the difference here, but that's just me.

Even if the ADDS don't get added, i believe the other changes i've suggested are still valid.

[Col_Fury]

How do events get erased? Does Silver Surfer and the Watcher remember the events? Do other characters?

Is it like UX 190-191 where only Doctor Strange remembers the events? In that case all other characters involved are actually Earth-8591.

I have these comics but I've never read them.

[StrayLamb]

Well, Michel's right, SS3 113 & 115-121 (except for # 121's Epilogue) are a What If, but it intersects with the "real" world thru Probe 111, which connects the events of SS3 111 directly with SS3 121 Epilogue & SS3 122-FB. In the real world, Quasar encountered the earlier Probe 100 "5 weeks ago" from the perspective of SS3 122, and that was prior to Starmasters. Hence my placement of SS3 111-122 after CPU 4-5, which is the continuation of Starmasters. Even if we don't add the What If issues to Silver Surfer's chronology, moving SS 111, 112, 114, 121 & 122 to after SMTU 2 and FF 413 still holds water. The change of placement for SS3 121 & 122 only affects Surfer's chronology. SMTU specifically occurs after SS3 111-114, and due to Quasar and Bete Ray Bill's appearances in SS3 111, for the Silver Surfer that occurs after Starmasters.

If this explanation is as clear as the mud at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, so is the story itself.

[Col_Fury]

There are currently a bunch of characters appearing in these issues that are listed on the main pages and not the alternate reality pages. It sounds like at this point *something* is going to have to be cleaned up.

I'm sure I'll read these Silver Surfer comics at some point, when I'm at a good break with Conan.

[StrayLamb]

I think every character is listed except the Silver Surfer.

[StrayLamb]

I've made some refinements to the chronology shown in the first post, which clarifies Odin's appearance in T 491-FB prior to STARMAS 1.

[DonCampbell]

This thread was brought to my attention yesterday and I have a few thoughts that might be helpful.

First, I wouldn't pay much attention to the order in which the various Outrider probes end their journeys because there are no temporal references between them. So, the fact that Outrider 100's failure to contact Quasar in deep space is presented after Outrider 101's failure to contact Beta Ray Bill in Asgard even though those events took place in the reverse order is insignificant. Additionally, since the Outriders were travelling through an unstable wormhole during which they were probably subjected to temporal distortions, it's no surprise that there was some variation in their arrival times. With that in mind, I would suggest that that means that the Silver Surfer's successful contact with Outrider 111 could have taken place a number of days before or after the other Outriders failed to contact their targets.

Second, you are treating the events depicted in Silver Surfer #111-121 as a single storyline without any breaks but this is not the case. Instead of featuring a single Silver Surfer, those issues actually feature TWO different Silver Surfers, one who managed to pass through the cosmic swell and one who failed to do so. If we assume that the Surfer who stayed on this side of the breach heard Outrider 111 at about the same time that Quasar and Beta Ray Bill heard the other two Outriders, then that would mean that this Surfer had over four weeks of free time between SS #114 and SS #121. The entire Star Masters/Cosmic Powers Unlimited storyline could easily have taken place within that gap.

Third, the events depicted in Star Masters #1-3 and Cosmic Powers Unlimited #4-5 are also not an unbroken storyline. Yes, Star Masters #1 leads directly into issue #2 which leads directly into issue #3 and is immediately continued in Cosmic Powers Unlimited #4 and concluded in CPU #5. However, there is a gap of "days" between pages 38 and 39. This gap is long enough for all the corpses to be removed from the Hub and for new representative to the Charter to be elected and travel to the Hub. The Silver Surfer's failed attempt to pass through the cosmic breach could easily have occurred within this gap.

With these factors in mind, let's review the chronology from the first post. I'll use an * to mark events that could be located at different points along this timeline.

*SS3 111 (4:3 - 22) [Probe 111 approaches convergence point and manages to make contact with the Silver Surfer into whom he downloads the data needed to reach the other side of the universe]
*As observed by a Watcher, "several rotations" pass as the Surfer waits for the Cosmic Swell to arrive
*SS3 112 (1 - 8) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell...]
*SS3 114 (1 - 7) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell but is expelled from the unstable wormhole exactly 25 micro-spans after he entered it. Since he no longer possesses the data from the Outrider's cerebral download, the Surfer is unable to try again]

SS3 111 (3:3 - 4:2) [Probe 100 approaches convergence point, buzzes past Quasar, who is installing a Big Ear dish, and fails]

STARMAS 1 (1 - 11) [Quasar is installing a Big Ear when he receives a distress call from his mom. He jumps to Earth-space where he soon encounters the Hub-Station]
STARMAS 1 (12 - 15) [Quasar's image is faked and broadcast across the galaxy, picked up by Silver Surfer & the Grand Vizier of Asgard, among others. Beta Ray Bill asks Odin to remove his enchantment, when the Vizier reports, and Odin asks Bill to perform one last service]
SS2 111 (2 - 3:2) [Probe 101 fails to reach the convergence point. Beta Ray Bill has a moment of faintness and Odin asks if his request troubles Bill.]
STARMAS 1 (16 - 22) to STARMAS 3 [Ends with Bill vanishing]
T 492 [Bill is in Asgard when he lapses into a coma]
CPU 4 (1 - 10) [Silver Surfer discovers Bill has teleported to Asgard and goes after him]
CPU 5-FB [Silver Surfer reaches Asgard. Working together, Odin and the Surfer transform Bill]
CPU 4 (19) [Surfer returns from Asgard with Bill, who has been transformed]
CPU 4 (11) [The body of Peacekeeper M'Duul has been removed from the Hub and returned to his home planet, M'Ndavi ,where the Axi-Tun plague is released and kills the entire M'Ndavian race]
CPU 4 (20 - 37) [The Star Masters destroy the Axi-Tun's hybrid cosmic plague before it can kill anyone else]

*SS3 111 (4:3 - 22) [Probe 111 approaches convergence point and manages to make contact with the Silver Surfer into whom he downloads the data needed to reach the other side of the universe]
*As observed by a Watcher, "several rotations" pass as the Surfer waits for the Cosmic Swells to arrive
*SS3 112 (1 - 8) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell...]
*SS3 114 (1 - 7) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell but is expelled from the unstable wormhole exactly 25 micro-spans after he entered it. Since he no longer possesses the data from the Outrider's cerebral download, the Surfer is unable to try again]
*SMTU 2 (12) [After an encounter with Kralian Skrulls, the Silver Surfer recalls how he failed to traverse the cosmic rift (SS3 114)]

CPU 4 (38 - 39) ["Days" after the Axi-Tun plague was destroyed and Quasar was exonerated for the mass murder of the Charter delegates on the Hub, the newly-elected Charter representatives vote to expel the Axi-Tun from the Charter]

CPU 5 (1 - 40) [The Star Master and Tana Nile travel to the planet Tun and, after some difficulties, manage to take Lord Votan into custody]
CPU 5 (3:2 - 8) - FB [What the Silver Surfer and Odin did to save/transform Beta Ray Bill]

*SS3 111 (4:3 - 22) [Probe 111 approaches convergence point and manages to make contact with the Silver Surfer into whom he downloads the data needed to reach the other side of the universe]
*As observed by a Watcher, "several rotations" pass as the Surfer waits for the Cosmic Swells to arrive
*SS3 112 (1 - 8) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell...]
*SS3 114 (1 - 7) [Observed by a Watcher, the Silver Surfer enters the cosmic swell but is expelled from the unstable wormhole exactly 25 micro-spans after he entered it. Since he no longer possesses the data from the Outrider's cerebral download, the Surfer is unable to try again]

*SMTU 2 (12) [After an encounter with Kralian Skrulls, the Silver Surfer recalls how he failed to traverse the cosmic rift (SS3 114)]

SS3 121 (21:1 - 21:4) [A "silver comet" from the cosmic swell seeks out the Silver Surfer]
SS3 122 (2:2 - 3:1) - FB [The Silver Surfer is hit by a silver fireball]
SS3 121 (21:5 - 22) and SS3 122 (1 - 4) [Quasar and Beta Ray Bill tell the Silver Surfer what just happened to him. They bot 114)h mention having hear a voice similar to voices they had heard "about five weeks ago"]

Based on this chronology, here is what I think their listings should be:

SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD (first version)
*SS3 111 => SS3 112 (1-8)/SS3 114 (1-7)
STARMAS 1-3 => CPU 4 => CPU 5-FB => CPU 4 (1-37)
CPU 4 (38-39) = > CPU 5
SS3 122 (2:2 - 3:1) - FB
SS3 121 (21:5 - 22) => SS3 122 (1 - 4)


SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD (second version)
STARMAS 1-3 => CPU 4 => CPU 5-FB => CPU 4 (1-37)
*SS3 111 => SS3 112 (1-8)/SS3 114 (1-7)
CPU 4 (38-39) = > CPU 5
SS3 122 (2:2 - 3:1) - FB
SS3 121 (21:5 - 22) => SS3 122 (1 - 4)


SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD (third version)
STARMAS 1-3 => CPU 4 => CPU 5-FB => CPU 4 (1-37)
CPU 4 (38-39) = > CPU 5
*SS3 111 => SS3 112 (1-8)/SS3 114 (1-7)
SS3 122 (2:2 - 3:1) - FB
SS3 121 (21:5 - 22) => SS3 122 (1 - 4)


BETA RAY BILL
STARMAS 1 (15)/SS3 111 (3)
STARMAS 1 (19-22)
STARMAS 2
STARMAS 3
T 492
CPU 5-FB
CPU 4
CPU 5
SS3 122-FB
SS3 121
SS3 122


ODIN/ODIN BORSON
*STARMAS 1 (15)/SS3 111 (3)
T 491
*STARMAS 1/SS3 111
T 492
T 494-OP 111
STARMAS 1
CPU 5-FB

The Watcher who appeared in SS3 111-112 + 114 may (or may NOT) have been Uatu.

SMTU2 can take place anywhere after SS3 114 (1-7) and before SS3 120 (21-22).

Anyway, that's how I see these issues fitting together. Let me know where I'm wrong.

[StrayLamb]

Works for me!