The post-Inferno to end of the Krakoa era X-titles thread

[Clive_Reston]

The present-day bits of X-Men Blue: Origins #1, as promised, are between pages 16 and 17 of Uncanny Spider-Man #4. There's also a good deal of retconning that carefully dances between the raindrops of previous stories... and an utter implausibility involving Destiny's chronology that I hope someone deals with at some point.

Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant #4 and Realm of X #4 conclude those miniseries, and continue directly from their respective previous issues. As Midnighter noted, Thor appears in Realm of X in his before-Immortal-Thor-#1 outfit. There's a break of "a few days" before the last two pages, and then Sif sends the cast back to Earth, and apparently to Krakoa; we'll see where *that* goes.

[Michael]

The present-day bits of X-Men Blue: Origins #1, as promised, are between pages 16 and 17 of Uncanny Spider-Man #4. There's also a good deal of retconning that carefully dances between the raindrops of previous stories... and an utter implausibility involving Destiny's chronology that I hope someone deals with at some point.

Which one are you thinking of? For starters, Destiny is physically in her 30s when Kurt was conceived but she's an old lady in the 1940s in Immortal X-Men 8. And she still has brown hair in the scene with Xavier. (More on that below.)
Then she meets Destiny again "five years" later. And Rogue is already old enough to have survived on the streets for more than a month. This is impossible- Kurt is older than Rogue. He was in his twenties when Rogue joined the X-Men and Rogue was a teenager. But let's ignore the "five years" part.
Then, after they adopt Rogue, Mystique and Destiny have Xavier alter their memories. And Xavier is walking but Rogue still seems to be living with Mystique and Destiny. This is odd because there doesn't seem to be a place in Xavier's chronology where this could fit. Xavier fathers Legion in Israel, travels to Tibet, loses the use of his legs, meets Amelia Voght and then tutors an 11-year old Jean Grey.

Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant #4 and Realm of X #4 conclude those miniseries, and continue directly from their respective previous issues. As Midnighter noted, Thor appears in Realm of X in his before-Immortal-Thor-#1 outfit. There's a break of "a few days" before the last two pages, and then Sif sends the cast back to Earth, and apparently to Krakoa; we'll see where *that* goes.

But our heroes return home via Bifrost at the end, so Realm of X has to take place after it's restored in Immortal Thor 1.
Chronology is going to get complicated for Cloak and Dagger at this point. Cloak and Dagger are helping Luke during Gang War. But they're enslaved Hounds of the Vulture during Uncanny Spider-Man.The problem is that the Kingpin still hadn't been reunited with Typhoid as of Invincible iron Man 12 but the solicits for Gang War make it sound like they're already reunited during Gang War.
Ms. Marvel gets her bangle back in Ms.Marvel: the New Mutant 4. I'm not sure if we should assume that all her bangle-less appearances take place before Ms. Marvel 4 or if we should just assume Kamala keeps forgetting the bangle.

[Midnighter]

Which one are you thinking of? For starters, Destiny is physically in her 30s when Kurt was conceived but she's an old lady in the 1940s in Immortal X-Men 8. And she still has brown hair in the scene with Xavier. (More on that below.)
Then she meets Destiny again "five years" later. And Rogue is already old enough to have survived on the streets for more than a month. This is impossible- Kurt is older than Rogue. He was in his twenties when Rogue joined the X-Men and Rogue was a teenager. But let's ignore the "five years" part.
Then, after they adopt Rogue, Mystique and Destiny have Xavier alter their memories. And Xavier is walking but Rogue still seems to be living with Mystique and Destiny. This is odd because there doesn't seem to be a place in Xavier's chronology where this could fit. Xavier fathers Legion in Israel, travels to Tibet, loses the use of his legs, meets Amelia Voght and then tutors an 11-year old Jean Grey.

It is always a tricky matter to delve into the age of characters, but I always had the idea that Kurt is about the same age as Ororo. Xavier met a young Ororo when he was still walking, so I would say that it can fit that Raven and Irene approached him when he was still walking until a decade or so after Kurt was born.
Of course, that would mean that Rogue must not have been more than 3-4 years old at that time.... From Irene's words it would seem that she is definitely older, but we can think that she is influenced by her power and is speaking in the present tense about things that have not yet happened.
They are probably observing her at that time when her father placed her in the care of her Aunt Carrie, and only years later would they actually adopt her. Perhaps after that picnic Anne Marie would return to her aunt and only a few years later would she run away.

That said, Irene Adler is the best spokesperson for anti-aging treatments to be found in the Marvel Universe.

[Clive_Reston]

Michael, the one I was thinking of was that Destiny must have been around 90 when Kurt was conceived!

I had been thinking that the scene with Mystique, Destiny and Xavier was a little while after UX 178--when Rogue has joined the X-Men but Mystique and Destiny are still concerned about her, and Xavier's walking. (Hence "the lingering sense of a favor owed" after that--Mystique's not trying to kill Xavier any more, at least for a little while.) But who knows, maybe what Destiny means by "my daughter" is Justine Chase...

[Leoparis]

The "five years" line is a problem that Midnighter's solution works around if we want a walking Xavier.

As for Irene (born ca 1870), some rejuvenation must have taken place at some point. She was more than 100 years old when Claremont introduced her and, with the sliding time scale, close to 150 (beyond the human limit) when she died.

The story features a demon that might have helped in that matter. Maybe one day we'll get Irene's or Azazel's side of the story.

[dimadick]

It is always a tricky matter to delve into the age of characters, but I always had the idea that Kurt is about the same age as Ororo. Xavier met a young Ororo when he was still walking, so I would say that it can fit that Raven and Irene approached him when he was still walking until a decade or so after Kurt was born.

Storm was supposedly 6-years-old when she was orphaned. Then she is raised by the master thief Achmed el-Gibar. When pick-pocket Ororo first meets Xavier (in X-Men v. 1 #117), she is still a child. Xavier fights Amahl Farouk over Ororo's fate, while she flees from both of them.

Ororo was supposedly 12-years-old when she left Cairo (in X-Men vol. 1 #267), and her mutant powers emerged shortly after.

This would place Xavier's encounter with her at some point between her 6th and 12th year.

Margali Szardos was still childless when acting as a protector to the young Wanda Maximoff (in Mystic Arcana: Scarlet Witch). In that issue, Margali hears a prophecy that her own future child will have occult significance.

Margali eventually has three kids. Stefan is the oldest, Jimaine is the middle child, and Kurt (adopted) is the youngest. Making all three of them younger than Wanda.
[/quote]

[dimadick]

As for Irene (born ca 1870), some rejuvenation must have taken place at some point. She was more than 100 years old when Claremont introduced her and, with the sliding time scale, close to 150 (beyond the human limit) when she died.

Destiny supposedly joined Project: Black Womb in the 1940s (in X-Men Legacy vol. 1 #211-214) , partnering up with Mister Sinister. The two of them experimented on a few children, such as Cain Marko, Charles Xavier, and Carter Ryking. Perhaps Irene experimented on herself as well?

When Destiny meets a young Warpath in X-Force vol. 1 #minus1, her hair was black. In that issue, she predicted Thunderbird's death, but she only shared that secret with Mystique.

[Clive_Reston]

X-Men #29 finishes up the Latveria plot from last issue (which has to start after Logan comes back to the subterranean X-team), and appears to cascade straight into Fall of the House of X. I suspect there's going to have to be a break somewhere in #28 for the past few issues of X-Men Red to happen; the problem is that the plot all flows pretty continuously from #27 onward. (Kate frees Juggernaut, who tries to escape the next day but Nimrod bashes his head in again; that night, Stasis and Firestar have dinner, and Sunfire encounters Apocalypse; the next day, Stasis is getting ready for his Juggernaut transfusion, and Firestar goes to see Juggernaut, who breaks out for real and is directed to the Morlock tunnels; that team gets his information and promptly flies to Latveria; as soon as they get back, a day or so later, their HQ is trashed and Laura and Everett are missing.)

Alpha Flight #5 doesn't appear to have much in the way of placement considerations within the general "Fall of X" period. Invincible Iron Man #13 is a bit trickier: it would make sense for it to happen before Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant (since it's common knowledge there that Tony Stark and "Hazel Kendal" are married), but the main plot appears to be getting into a pretty close position for Fall of the House of X as well (and suggesting some things might happen in X-Men Red that we haven't seen there yet).

[Michael]

X-Men #29 finishes up the Latveria plot from last issue (which has to start after Logan comes back to the subterranean X-team), and appears to cascade straight into Fall of the House of X. I suspect there's going to have to be a break somewhere in #28 for the past few issues of X-Men Red to happen; the problem is that the plot all flows pretty continuously from #27 onward. (Kate frees Juggernaut, who tries to escape the next day but Nimrod bashes his head in again; that night, Stasis and Firestar have dinner, and Sunfire encounters Apocalypse; the next day, Stasis is getting ready for his Juggernaut transfusion, and Firestar goes to see Juggernaut, who breaks out for real and is directed to the Morlock tunnels; that team gets his information and promptly flies to Latveria; as soon as they get back, a day or so later, their HQ is trashed and Laura and Everett are missing.)

I think the simplest solution would just be to unhook the Sunfire plot from the rest of the issue, since Sunfire's and Apocalypse's story isn't connected to the story on Earth.

[StrayLamb]

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X-Men 2-3 (Feilong about to leave for Mars)
X-Men Unlimited: Latitude (Nightcrawler clean-shaven)
X-Men Unlimited: X-Men Green 1-2 (might as well have all the trials close together; note that, since this is after the Gala, the ship that appears to be the Marauder is really the Mercury in the form of the Marauder...)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 13-20 (Juggernaut/Deadpool)
X-Force 21-22 (some indefinite amount of time after the Gala)
Secret X-Men 1 (this can really be any time after the Gala and before the new Marauders series) [MOVED]
Wolverine 14-16 (a few weeks after the Gala--there's a flashback to a month ago with Solem in Madripoor)
X-Corp 3-5
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 21, 27, 34
Wolverine 17-19
Death of Doctor Strange: X-Men/Black Knight 1
X-Men 4 (sometime relatively soon after Dr. Strange's death; Feilong en route to Mars)
Marauders 26 (Ben Urich is chasing the story but hasn't yet broken it)
X-Men 5-7 / FCBD 2022: Avengers/X-Men (1st story) (Scott Summers becomes Captain Krakoa; Ben Urich dissuaded; there are still two empty seats on the Council; Feilong sets up Martian outpost, having spent about 19 days traveling since #3)
Inferno 1-4 / X-Force 24 (4 weeks since Destiny's resurrection immediately after the Gala; Destiny and Colossus join Council; Beast loses an eye; Magik being snarky since everyone already knows Kwannon's a Great Captain)
X Lives of Wolverine 1-5/X Deaths of Wolverine 1-5/The Life of Wolverine Infinity Comic 1-10
Wolverine 20-22 (very shortly after X Deaths)
X-Force 25-26 (soon after X Deaths)
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X-Force 23 leads directly into issue 24. Also, Mikhail mentions he was expecting a shipment of Shi'ar logic diamonds, but that never came to pass. That's due to events in Wolverine 14-16, which appear to take place much earlier in the piece, possibly in the first week after the Gala. The Marauder's still smoking, the corpses are still there. Can't be more than a few days later. The flashback to a month ago is to an incident at some point prior to the sacking of the Marauder, but not necessarily immediately before it.

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Wolverine 14-16 (a few weeks after the Gala--there's a flashback to a month ago with Solem in Madripoor; prior to X-Force 23)
X-Men (2021) 1 (John Proudstar is spoken about in the past tense)
Hellions 18 (Madelyne resurrected)
(most of) X-Men: The Trial of Magneto 5 (John Proudstar resurrected)
New Mutants 24 (John Proudstar has just been resurrected, Madelyne's around too)
S.W.O.R.D. 8
X-Men 2-3 (Feilong about to leave for Mars)
X-Men 2-3 (Feilong about to leave for Mars)
X-Men Unlimited: Latitude (Nightcrawler clean-shaven)
X-Men Unlimited: X-Men Green 1-2 (might as well have all the trials close together; note that, since this is after the Gala, the ship that appears to be the Marauder is really the Mercury in the form of the Marauder...)
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 13-20 (Juggernaut/Deadpool)
X-Force 21-22 (some indefinite amount of time after the Gala)
X-Corp 3-5
X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 21, 27, 34
Wolverine 17-19
Death of Doctor Strange: X-Men/Black Knight 1
X-Men 4 (sometime relatively soon after Dr. Strange's death; Feilong en route to Mars)
Marauders 26 (Ben Urich is chasing the story but hasn't yet broken it)
X-Men 5-7 / FCBD 2022: Avengers/X-Men (1st story) (Scott Summers becomes Captain Krakoa; Ben Urich dissuaded; there are still two empty seats on the Council; Feilong sets up Martian outpost, having spent about 19 days traveling since #3)
Inferno 1-4 / X-Force 23-24 (4 weeks since Destiny's resurrection immediately after the Gala; Destiny and Colossus join Council; Beast loses an eye; Magik being snarky since everyone already knows Kwannon's a Great Captain)
X Lives of Wolverine 1-5/X Deaths of Wolverine 1-5/The Life of Wolverine Infinity Comic 1-10
Wolverine 20-22 (very shortly after X Deaths)
X-Force 25-26 (soon after X Deaths)
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[Clive_Reston]

Thank you, StrayLamb! Agreed that X-Force 23 belongs with 24. The still-smoking Marauder does suggest that Wolverine 14-16 are quite soon after the 2021 Gala; the only problem there is that the flashback with Solem can't be "a month ago," since only two weeks pass between X of Swords and the Gala. But there's no story reason that the flashback can't be a bit more recent, and Solem certainly seems able to get up to a whole lot of trouble in very little time...!

(And, honestly, I wouldn't entirely put it past Solem to have been sneaking out of his prison every now and then to cause trouble on Earth.)

(Alternately, I'll just take this as evidence for my headcanon that months in the 616 are about 9 days long.)

[Clive_Reston]

Clever thing of the week: Storm's appearance in Immortal Thor #5 leads directly into her grand entrance in the "ten weeks later" piece of X-Men Red #14! (It's also during/shortly after Avengers Inc. #3, fwiw.)

X-Men Red #18, meanwhile, concludes that series and picks up just after #17. Dark X-Men #5 concludes that miniseries, continues on from #4, and ends... at some point before the end of X-Men #29, since Synch is still hanging around in the Morlock tunnels. And X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic #117 wraps up the Firestar storyline (which seems to be between X-Men #26 and 27) and gives her a small change in circumstances that I suspect will be reflected in other X-titles before long.

[Michael]

The placement of Dark X-Men 5 is tight. In Dark X-Men 4 Gambit references Fatale. Reaper and Animax being captured by Orchis in Uncanny Spider-Man 3, which takes place in the same sequence as Orchis's hounds encountering Mystique for the first time. In X-Men 28, the sequence is this- Firestar helps Juggernaut escape from Orchis and hands him information, Firestar tells Nimrod, Omega Sentinel and Moira that Mystique is alive and Juggernaut arrives at the X-Men's headquarters with the information, after which Talon and Synch send Logan, Kate and Kamala to Latveria. When they get back from Latveria. they find the X-Men's headquarters thrashed and Talon and Synch missing. So, Dark X-Men 4-5 should take place while Logan, Kate and Kamala are in Latveria. (A week passes between Orchis's defeat in the Limbo Embassy and Gambit and Feint going to the X-Men but this can be explained by it taking a week to sneak Logan, Kate and and Kamala back into the United States without Logan being detected by Sentinels.) This is complicated by Invincible Iron Man 12, where Kingpin tells the authorities he was attacked by Mystique and then Tony and Emma go to dinner with Kamala, Talon and Synch. But we can assume Juggernaut arrived at the X-Men's headquarters immediately after the dinner.

[Clive_Reston]

Astonishing Iceman #5, Uncanny Avengers #5 and Uncanny Spider-Man #5 all wrap up those miniseries and all take place just after their respective previous issues. (Uncanny Avengers shares a data page with X-Men #29, weirdly, and has a coda that's some weeks later, but nothing much seems to have happened during that time.) Iceman includes a data page from Orchis's "narrative petal," but there's no indication of who's running it, so placement vis-a-vis that most recent Unlimited storyline is unaffected.

Wolverine #40 guest-stars Spider-Man and appears to lead into Logan reuniting with X-Force? Guess we'll see.

Speaking of Spidey: Amazing Spider-Man #40 does indeed have Typhoid alongside Wilson Fisk at the end, so that'll have to be at some point after Realm of X. (She's still missing as of the bit right before the coda of Uncanny Avengers, too--and, at that point, Ben Urich knows that Cyclops will be going on trial, so presumably that piece is after X-Men #29.)

X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic #118 begins a new storyline that takes place a little while after X-Men Red #18, circa Christmastime, but that can easily be a topical reference (so far, anyway).

The Original X-Men #1 is... not Krakoa-related, and takes the "O5 who've been returned to their own time" out of their world, ca. X-Men (1963) #23 (I'd have said X 23 but that's confusing in this context), and into another one.

[Michael]

Astonishing Iceman #5, Uncanny Avengers #5 and Uncanny Spider-Man #5 all wrap up those miniseries and all take place just after their respective previous issues. (Uncanny Avengers shares a data page with X-Men #29, weirdly, and has a coda that's some weeks later, but nothing much seems to have happened during that time.) Iceman includes a data page from Orchis's "narrative petal," but there's no indication of who's running it, so placement vis-a-vis that most recent Unlimited storyline is unaffected.

Note, though, that in X-Men Unlimited 112 Traveller says that Iceman is assigned to Pequod. Pequod is demoted at the end of this issue, so presumably X-Men Unlimited 112 takes place before Pequod is demoted.Traveller also mentions Toomes's hounds in that scene, so Unlimited 112 takes place before Uncanny Spider-Man 5?

Note that Cloak and Dagger are freed from being Hounds in Uncanny Spider-Man 5- should we assume this takes place before Gang War, since they're helping Luke in that story.

Wolverine #40 guest-stars Spider-Man and appears to lead into Logan reuniting with X-Force? Guess we'll see.

it's also odd because Peter says "the last thing I need is more villains in my rogues gallery" when Logan asks him to help with Orcihs. What was Peter doing in Uncanny Spider-Man and Astonishing Iceman if not fighting Orchis? Maybe Peter was making a joke? It's also odd because Peter promised to ask Logan about Aunt Anna's condition in the last Amazing Spider-Man Annual and he doesn't.

And does this place before Logan helped Kate and Kamala in X-Men 28-29?

Speaking of Spidey: Amazing Spider-Man #40 does indeed have Typhoid alongside Wilson Fisk at the end, so that'll have to be at some point after Realm of X. (She's still missing as of the bit right before the coda of Uncanny Avengers, too--and, at that point, Ben Urich knows that Cyclops will be going on trial, so presumably that piece is after X-Men #29.)

Typhoid is also missing in Invincible iron Man 12, so that issue also takes place before Amazing Spider-Man 40.

X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic #118 begins a new storyline that takes place a little while after X-Men Red #18, circa Christmastime, but that can easily be a topical reference (so far, anyway).

Alex and Maddie also have a cameo- I'd guess after Dark X-Men 5.