Cyclops (I)

[zuckyd1]

The entry currently reads:

CYCLOPS
TOS 10
FF 9
P8 12

Based on information in Official Index of the Fantastic Four #1, Marvel Saga #8 and Punisher: Official Index to the Marvel Universe, the cyclops who appeared in FF 9 is a different character than the one who appeared in the other two issues.

[RobinHoodMtl]

Damn, you're quick, zuckyd1!!

[MarvelBoy2002]

If the Punisher Index says that the Cyclops from TOS 10 and P8 12 are the same character, does that mean that his entry should be merged with Polyphemus', since in TOS 10-FB Cyclops fights Odysseus/Ulysses (who, by the way, for some reason has different entries in the MCP)?

[zuckyd1]

If the Punisher Index says that the Cyclops from TOS 10 and P8 12 are the same character, does that mean that his entry should be merged with Polyphemus', since in TOS 10-FB Cyclops fights Odysseus/Ulysses (who, by the way, for some reason has different entries in the MCP)?

Just as the Punisher Index omits FF 9 from the Cyclop's chronology, it likewise omits Polyphemus's appearances. Polyphemus's 2009 handbook entry (in volume 9's Olympians appendix) lists SUB 29 as his first appearance.

[Russ Chappell]

Be careful about using lack of evidence as evidence.

[zuckyd1]

Unless it was an oversight, wouldn't the omission of specific issues in a chronology count as evidence?

[Russ Chappell]

Unless it was an oversight, wouldn't the omission of specific issues in a chronology count as evidence?

Unless it was an oversight

oversight...?

You are correct.

[RobinHoodMtl]

If the Punisher Index says that the Cyclops from TOS 10 and P8 12 are the same character, does that mean that his entry should be merged with Polyphemus', since in TOS 10-FB Cyclops fights Odysseus/Ulysses (who, by the way, for some reason has different entries in the MCP)?

Just as the Punisher Index omits FF 9 from the Cyclop's chronology, it likewise omits Polyphemus's appearances. Polyphemus's 2009 handbook entry (in volume 9's Olympians appendix) lists SUB 29 as his first appearance.

If one official lists Cyclops's first appearance as TOS 10 and an other book says Polyphemus's first was in SUB 29, then I would not call that omission. I would call that two different characters.

And as zuckyd1 mentioned in another forum, "Official Index to the Fantastic Four #1 (1985) states that FF #9 is that particular cyclops' first and only appearance." The book also says that he is possibly a Deviant. Until some other book after that after 1985 denies this for this specific Cyclops, he should be a third character. I don't think that is an "oversight". There was a mention of this Cyclops.

[Russ Chappell]

We...may be talking about two different things, but let's get back on track.

Based on information in Official Index of the Fantastic Four #1, Marvel Saga #8 and Punisher: Official Index to the Marvel Universe, the cyclops who appeared in FF 9 is a different character than the one who appeared in the other two issues.

What does this mean? If you're looking for us to change the listings, give us something better than "based on information in..."

Once we know that, we can engage in more intelligent discussions.

[zuckyd1]

We...may be talking about two different things, but let's get back on track.

Based on information in Official Index of the Fantastic Four #1, Marvel Saga #8 and Punisher: Official Index to the Marvel Universe, the cyclops who appeared in FF 9 is a different character than the one who appeared in the other two issues.

What does this mean? If you're looking for us to change the listings, give us something better than "based on information in..."

Once we know that, we can engage in more intelligent discussions.

Sorry about that.

The Official Index to the Fantastic Four #1 (1985) states that FF 9 is that particular cyclops' first and only appearance.

Marvel Saga #8 (1986) describes the FF character as "a gigantic creature mutated to resemble the one-eyed cyclops from the days of the Greek myths".

And, as already noted, the Punisher: Official Index to the Marvel Universe (2012) says the following in the entry for Punisher #12 (February 2010): "Cyclops (Olympian monster, last in ToS #10, '60)".

The information in the Marvel Saga issue probably provides the most concrete evidence that we are dealing with two separate characters, since the one from TOS 10 presumably IS "from the days of the Greek myths".

[Russ Chappell]

The Official Index to the Fantastic Four #1 (1985) states that FF 9 is that particular cyclops' first and only appearance.

Marvel Saga #8 (1986) describes the FF character as "a gigantic creature mutated to resemble the one-eyed cyclops from the days of the Greek myths".

And, as already noted, the Punisher: Official Index to the Marvel Universe (2012) says the following in the entry for Punisher #12 (February 2010): "Cyclops (Olympian monster, last in ToS #10, '60)".

The information in the Marvel Saga issue probably provides the most concrete evidence that we are dealing with two separate characters, since the one from TOS 10 presumably IS "from the days of the Greek myths".

Thank you.

Here's what I'm saying: We can be skeptical of the two Index entries, because they are candidates for omissions. We don't know if the Index creators overlooked the FF appearance, or if they were conscious omissions.

Your citation of Marvel Saga, though, is much more ironclad. This book offers an explanation for why it's not the same character. No omission here; it's directly addressing the issue.

[zuckyd1]

Here's what I'm saying: We can be skeptical of the two Index entries, because they are candidates for omissions. We don't know if the Index creators overlooked the FF appearance, or if they were conscious omissions.

FWIW weren't you one of the writers of the Punisher Index?

[Russ Chappell]

As a matter of fact, I was. And no one would have to convince me that we could make mistakes of omission. We're human.

I was also one of the writers of the Thor Index, and after it was published, Chrissy was reading an issue of Journey Into Mystery, and said, "That sure looks like Thunderbolt Ross".

[Antonio Gaviño]

If I may be of help here, and going by the in-story information, they have to be different characters. Let’s not forget that the cyclopes are a race, so the possibility for there to be more than one who refers to himself as Cyclops is there.

In TOS 10, a couple traveling the Mediterranean Sea on their boat arrive on an unnamed island and find a cyclops’ frozen body under the ice. Thinking he is dead they try to get the body out to bring it back to civilization but the creature, who has long hair and beard, turns out to have been in suspended animation and returns to life after the sun helps to thaw him out. He calls himself Cyclops and is then tricked into falling to the water and getting frozen again.

The cyclops Mister Fantastic fights in Hidden Isle in the Mediterranean Sea in FF 9 is a bald creature who according to himself is named Cyclops as well, is immortal and, aside from Namor, hasn’t seen a human in the isle for ‘centuries’. He is led by Reed to fall into a pit.

Polyphemus, who appears in SUB 29 is summoned to life by Cephalus, the Huntsman of Zeus. He is bald and has a diamond for an eye. He later vanishes back into nothingness. In W/HRC:MMM 2-4, Polyphemus is now brought back to life by Matsu’o Tsurayaba and the Hand, this time with a normal eye. He is later sent back to where he came from by Pluto.

So, Polyphemus was dead both times he was brought back to life and the other two Cyclops were still alive. Different characters.

Neither Cyclops nor Polyphemus appear in P8 12, just a one eyed monster with not so much of a humanoid form, more like a head with extremities and a red eye. He calls himself Melgorno. Totally different character.

[Antonio Gaviño]

After taking a closer look, there’s another one-eyed character in P8 12 who is probably the one the Punisher Index refers to as Cyclops, and who resembles the one appearing in TOS 10 with long hear and beard, but it’s unlikely they are the same character because this one is red skinned and not a giant.