Chief John Wilson listing

[RobinHoodMtl]

Currently, you have:

WILSON, JOHN
SAGAHT 1 (21:7 - 21:8)-FB
{M/C 1 (16:1 - 16:2)}
SAGAHT 1 (22:1 - 22:4)-FB
M/C 1 (16:3)
SAGAHT 1 (22:5)-FB
...

Marvel Mystery Handbook 70th anniversary special states that his first appearance is in Marvel Mystery Comics #3 (unnamed) where he is asking Betty Dean to get in touch with Namor to deal when he made his first attack on New York. This is consistent with Saga of the Sub-Mariner #3's retelling of the story and where Betty meets Wilson whose name, at the end of the story, is clearly written on his office door.

On the other hand, his appearance as the officer that places the Human Torch in the custody of Prof. Horton is an assumption that contradicts the Handbook and there is nothing in further issues to substantiate that he is Wilson. The officer is neither identified in M/C 1 nor in Saga of the Human Torch #1. SAGAHT 2 establishes this officer is the commissionner and that Wilson, the chief, watches when Hammond gets in the car with Horton.

So based on this, here is what I propose for this part:

b]WILSON, JOHN [/b]
SAGAHT 1 (21:7 - 21:8)-FB --> remove
{M/C 1 (16:1 - 16:2)} --> remove
SAGAHT 1 (22:1 - 22:4)-FB --> remove
M/C 1 (16:3) --> remove
SAGAHT 1 (22:5)-FB --> SAGAHT 1-FB -- Only panel where Wilson appears in the whole book.
{M/MC 3/3} --> add -- On page 1, Wilson tells his inspectors to get Betty Dean's help to handle Namor's rampage.

More about M/MC 7, SAGAHT 2 and SAGASUB 3 in my next post.

[RobinHoodMtl]

There are a few problems with panel numbering and conformity with your guidelines.

Breakdown of the current listing:

M/MC 7 (4:1 - 4:6) - Wilson meets the Human Torch for the first time.
SAGAHT 2 (6:1 - 6:4)-FB - Betty Dean enters Wilson's office and meets the Human Torch and Wilson confirms he's been watching him since he met the commissioner
M/MC 7 (4:7 - 5:2) - Wilson asks Hammond to find evidence to arrest Roglo; Hammond is allowed to act as a policeman without a uniform.
SAGAHT 2 (6:8 - 7:3)-FB - As Human Torch leaves, Wilson tells Betty that he will need a fire extinguisher.
SAGASUB 3 (10:3)-FB - Betty Dean comes into Wilson's office.
SUB 38-FB - Wilson tells Betty about the Sub-Mariner's first attacks on New-York
SAGASUB 3 (10:4 - 11:3)-FB - Wilson convinces Betty to help take down the Sub-Mariner
M/MC 7 (12:6 - 12:7) - Human Torch enters police HQ as Wilson is informed of a new attack by the Sub-Mariner

My suggestions:

SAGAHT 2 (5:6 - 5:7)-FB - add - Human Torch interrupts Wilson's phone call to the Commissioner by coming into his office through the window
M/MC 7 (4:1 - 4:6) --> M/MC 7 (1 - 4:6)
SAGAHT 2 (6:1 - 6:4)-FB
M/MC 7 (4:7 - 5:2) --> M/MC 7 (4:7 - 12:5)
SAGAHT 2 (6:8 - 7:3)-FB --> SAGAHT 2 (6:5 - 23)-FB - To comply with guidelines
SAGASUB 3 (10:3)-FB --> SAGASUB 3 (1 - 11:3)-FB - Page numbering is wrong
SUB 38-FB
SAGASUB 3 (10:4 - 11:3)-FB --> SAGASUB 3 (11:4 - 21)-FB - Must include last page where some time later Wilson tells Human Torch about the Sub-Mariner first attack on New York and that Betty says he'll be back.
M/MC 7 (12:6 - 12:7) - Subby's back

[Russ Chappell]

Currently, you have:

WILSON, JOHN
SAGAHT 1 (21:7 - 21:8)-FB
{M/C 1 (16:1 - 16:2)}
SAGAHT 1 (22:1 - 22:4)-FB
M/C 1 (16:3)
SAGAHT 1 (22:5)-FB
...

...
here is what I propose for this part:

SAGAHT 1 (21:7 - 21:8)-FB --> remove
{M/C 1 (16:1 - 16:2)} --> remove
SAGAHT 1 (22:1 - 22:4)-FB --> remove
M/C 1 (16:3) --> remove
SAGAHT 1 (22:5)-FB --> SAGAHT 1-FB -- Only panel where Wilson appears in the whole book.
{M/MC 3/3} --> add -- On page 1, Wilson tells his inspectors to get Betty Dean's help to handle Namor's rampage.

The current listing appears to come from here.

Since Daron is a contributor to the Handbooks, I'll leave this to him.

[RobinHoodMtl]

The current listing appears to come from here.

Since Daron is a contributor to the Handbooks, I'll leave this to him.

My suggestion comes from what I could find in official documents and I had no idea that a contributor to the handbooks made a retcon in this forum. Still, that does not explain why an official handbook would omit this first appearance and why Wilson would speak to Human Torch in M/MC 7 as if it were the first time he spoke to him. Then again, as you said, I will leave that to your expert to provide the reason for his suggested listing. What you do with my suggestions is entirely up do you, as always, but I maintain that the conformity to your own guidelines in regards to panel numbering should still be considered regardless of the inclusion of this particular scene where, IMHO, nothing other than Daron's listing says Wilson was there. So let's wait and find out.

[Russ Chappell]

Just out of curiosity, when you say

the conformity to your own guidelines in regards to panel numbering

are you referring to this post, or this post? Or some other policy? Specifically, which guideline are you following?

[RobinHoodMtl]

Both links lead to the same page. Nonetheless, I'm referring to the best practice that if say issue A is split in two by issue B, then the first part of issue A starts at page 1 and second part ends at its last page. Unless this is something I misunderstood from this link you mentioned in a previous discussion about Avengers.

I'm not saying that I completely agree with that practice, but since it seems to be the way you want listings done, I've made quite a few posts recently when I encountered listings that don't comply with the instruction I was given. Because, I'm a obedient little soldier, and as they say, if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em!

[RobinHoodMtl]

To keep going with Wilson's listing, it seems that his appearance in M/MC 8/2 is missing. Human Torch is blamed by his superior (he calls "Chief") that he failed to capture Namor. Not that it mattered much in the Golden Age, but the officer looks exactly the same as Wilson in other issues in this arc. Ya know, if it walks like a duck... and how many chiefs does the Torch have anyway? Keeping in mind that Wilson is the Torch's immediate superior, we can deduce that he is also the one who orders the Torch to go after Subby on page 17 of the same story, So I would add the following line:

M/MC 7 (12:6 - 12:7)
M/MC 8/2 --> add
SAGASUB 4 (15:1 - 15:3)-FB --> SAGASUB 4 (1 - 15:3)-FB - To comply with your policy not to list items panel by panel.
M/MC 9
SAGASUB 4 (16:5 - 16:7)-FB --> SAGASUB 4 (16:5 - 22)-FB
TGWNMAG2 3

Also, i'm assuming that M/MC 9 was not split because the man following Betty Dean on page 11 is called "commissioner's assistant" in the narrative, but it does not exclude that the assistant to the commissioner could be Chief Wilson. And since this man has following Betty to the reservoir in that story, there is no reason to think that it is not him who, with Betty, finds the Human Torch trapped in a glass cylinder on page 1 of M/MC 10. So if that is that is the case, the listing should go like this:

M/MC 9 --> M/MC 9 (1 - 10)
SAGASUB 4 (16:5 - 16:7)-FB --> SAGASUB 4 (16:5 - 22)-FB
M/MC 9 (11 - 22) --> add
TGWNMAG2 3 - Don't know what this is about, can't find this issue.
M/MC 10 --> add
M/MC 10/2

[Russ Chappell]

Thank you for the clarification.

Both links lead to the same page.

Well, crap. I tried really hard to get it right, but ol' sausage fingers strikes again.

Nonetheless, I'm referring to the best practice that if say issue A is split in two by issue B, then the first part of issue A starts at page 1 and second part ends at its last page. Unless this is something I misunderstood from this link you mentioned in a previous discussion about Avengers.

Nonetheless, you found the other post I was trying to cite. That particular post is in two parts. The first part of the post? Yes, that's a rule.

The second part of the post, the part that begins "That is a much trickier question"? Not so much. I was just trying to offer context, an explanation of how I do it, where I rely on others--whose opinion I value--to determine the sequence breaks. That's not a rule, it's just an explanation.

[RobinHoodMtl]

I understand. But I've made many posts to point out where panel by panel items were made in listings because that it is what I understood from discussions with other contributors like michel who, according to his reply here, where he appears to have made your "explanation" a "rule".

That being said, most of my recent suggestions did not get any reply, As it is, I don't know if I'm dong it all wrong and they will be ignored in your next updates, or if I'm on the right track and the fact that there was no reply was a sign no one objected.

So please let me know 'cause I don't want to lose my time (and yours) trying to help if I'm not doing it the right way. Some of these posts took a lot of time to prepare, ya know, because I try to double-check everything I say lest I put a foot in my mouth (or on my keyboard).

[Col_Fury]

You're doing great!

We usually let suggestions and corrections sit in the forum for a while before acting on them, to give people a chance to respond. Not everyone logs in every day or every week, after all.

Your page/panel stuff all makes sense to me. I need to look into the John Wilson thing; that was a while ago and I need to jog my memory.

Thanks a bunch RobinHoodMtl, keep it up!

[RobinHoodMtl]

Glad to hear that. About the Wilson list, I search this forum to see if it ever was debated because I remember a discussion about it. Then I realized it was on the CMRO forum. So far, my suggestions are quite in line with what they have. But I guess that discussion was also about the Chief Ryan and Captain Rawlings discrepancies that Golden Age did. All those officers look the same anyway. And even in SAGAHT, the commissioner, Chief Wilson and even Prof. Horton are very much alike, at least in SAGAHT 1.

[StrayLamb]

That being said, most of my recent suggestions did not get any reply, As it is, I don't know if I'm dong it all wrong and they will be ignored in your next updates, or if I'm on the right track and the fact that there was no reply was a sign no one objected.

So please let me know 'cause I don't want to lose my time (and yours) trying to help if I'm not doing it the right way. Some of these posts took a lot of time to prepare, ya know, because I try to double-check everything I say lest I put a foot in my mouth (or on my keyboard).

If no one has anything to add, you won't get a reply.

If the changes in the post have been approved, a will be placed alongside the heading. You'll notice a lot of your posts have the , so you know..

[RobinHoodMtl]

If the changes in the post have been approved, a will be placed alongside the heading. You'll notice a lot of your posts have the , so you know..

I didn't know about that so thanks for letting me know.