This is bound to happen more and more. We had Duggan (or Noto) showing the black-clad Spider-Man (1984-88) at the time Elektra was the Kingpin's assassin (1981-82). There is also an Elektra story in which she's sent by Kingpin to kill Johnny Blaze who appears as Ghost Rider in the Danny Ketch costume (Elektra: Black, White & Blood 4).Michael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 pmThe problem is this- Roxanne gets amnesia in Ghost Rider 28, cover dated 2/78. By issue 75, she has her memory back and is looking for Johnny. But she doesn't find him until the end of issue 79. In issue 80, which continues directly from issue 79, Roxanne tells Johnny that someone's stealing people's souls in her hometown. They go to her town, find out it's Centurious and have a confrontation with him that ends in issue 81, where Johnny loses his powers. So Johnny and Roxanne really shouldn't be together while Johnny has his powers after Ghost Rider 28, unless we create a gap in issue 80, which would be awkward. "Let's perform in New York and then help those people get their souls back". Besides, Ghost Rider 80 is cover dated May 1983. Kitty joins the school in Uncanny 138, cover dated 10/80. She meets Stevie Hunter in issue 139, Stevie Hunter is kidnapped in issue 145 and Logan discusses with Storm and Xavier what to do about her kidnapping in that issue, Kitty gets over her fear of Nightcrawler in Uncanny 148 and Wolverine meets Stevie in issue 152, coved dated 12/81. There's no way to make this work without moving Ghost Rider's chronology years relative to Uncanny X-Men.Clive_Reston wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:39 am Ghost Rider/Wolverine: Weapons of Vengeance Alpha is branded as a Fall of X story (and starts a crossover that will include Wolverine #36), but doesn't mention the Gala. Most of it, though, is a flashback that may take some finessing. For the X-Men, it seems like it's in the relatively short gap between Uncanny X-Men #138 and 139: Logan has never heard of Stevie Hunter, Kitty and Angel are both at the Xavier School (and Kitty's not getting along with Nightcrawler), etc. And... for Ghost Rider, Johnny Blaze and Roxanne Simpson are a couple, it's been "a year" since Crash Simpson died, and Johnny's performing in "the Crash Simpson Stunt Cycle Extravaganza" at the "New York Colosseum," where he's trying to "break the record of eighteen buses jumped" (there are 20 in the image). (Crash was killed trying to jump 22 limousines, so that's a bit of a stretch...) Ghost Rider aficionados: is there a way this can work for Johnny?
A solution for Devil's Reign X-Men 2-3 was found, not to everybody's satisfaction. I tried and gave up on Elektra: Black, White & Blood 4. It is easier to dismiss these anthology short stories, especially when some of them are clearly not canon.
With this story occurring in the regular titles, such a dismissal is not possible.
I tried a number of ideas for this flashback. Basically they amount to:
placing it at the time Johnny was with Roxanne:
placing it at the time of the X-Men lineup;
placing the flashback at two different spots in time.
1. Placing it at the time Johnny was with Roxanne
The last time Johnny was performing in the Crash Simpson show in NYC was in MTU 15 (Nov 73), which was before the New X-Men. Then Johnny and Roxanne keep getting separated. She lives as stuntwoman Katy Milner and when she regains her identity, Johnny is in a love triangle with Karen Page and doing regular stunt work in Los Angeles (from GR2 #13, Aug 75, to GR2 #26, Oct 77). After #26 there is some issue-to-issue continuity that prevents sending Johnny and Roxanne to NYC. I couldn't break #26 nor #27 to fit the sequence. At the end of #28 Johnny is going east and a rider who knows Johnny and Roxanne gets with her. If we figure he tells her Johnny is looking for her and she recovers her memory, we could insert the NYC fb there but we're still with the problem that we need a breakup with Johnny and another amnesia.
This leaves a spot before Roxanne leaves him in the Epilog I of issue #9, Dec 1974 (between pages 16 & 17, numbered 30 & 31 in the original comic). The caption at the start of Epilog I says "Several days pass" before she's announcing their breakup.
The X-Men lineup would have to be reinterpreted. The story could take place after GSX 1 and Angel's presence would be before he leaves the team in X 94. As for Kitty, she's not named so who else could she be, allowing for some new hairdo? Candy Southern (who was with the X-Men in Hidden Years 10), or Jean or Lorna.
Another spot is after GR #20, Oct 1976, where Roxanne pleads Johnny to come back to her. But that's in the middle of Johnny's love triangle and while he's a stuntman on a TV show in Los Angeles.
This would place the X-Men circa X 101, Oct 1976. The woman could be Jean Grey or Moira McTaggert, who has been living in the Xavier mansion since X-Men #96.
(What about phasing through a wall? The wall is a hologram! Although I don't think the Danger Room had holograms that early on, some flashback stories tend to feature them.)
That's a lot of squinting, more than most usually allow.
2. Placing it at the time of the X-Men lineup
I actually agree the X-Men lineup matches the one from the end of X-Men 138. (This lineup looks supernatural--an angel, a devil, a ghost, a werewolf, a voodoo witch.) However, 1980 is a quite a bit late for Crash Simpson dying "one year ago," it's also late for Blaze to be still operating under the Crash Simpson Show name. His performing costume is the same as in #45-47 and #58. Is there nonetheless a possible spot?
Johnny says in #45, June 1980, that he's been on the road for the last months (rather than training for a stunt show). His record then is jumping twenty-two cars, a record beaten by Flagg Fargo jumping 24 cars. So the flashback would have to be after that. The competition with stunt-rider Flagg Fargo which started in #45 continues in #46, where Johnny loses his title. Issue #47 starts with the contest score from the last issue, then there is a break of three days (without changing into Ghost Rider) and then he meets a girl, whom he starts to date.
Even assuming an untold reunion between Johnny and Roxanne, an explanation for their separation will still be required, so I've looked for villains who could mindwipe them as well as his romantic status. If not or the rather specific reference to Roxanne Simpson, it would have been easier if "Roxanne" had been Amy (#47), Gina (#54-56), Nora (#57). Or the villainesses Tabitha (#47), the Sirens (#52), Tabicantra (#53) impersonating Roxanne.
Due to #54 mention of being months on the open road, the fb would have to be after that. But then he's involved with Gina, then Nora. Blaze is back in NYC to performing in MTIO 80, but the show only mentions Johnny Blaze and he only jumps 16 cars (and this is already published one year after X 138). After he's been famous on his own name all these years, I don't see him operating back under the Crash Simpson show.
By #63 he joins a circus. This leads us to the third option below.
[[[CLICK & DRAG: In #47 he meets vampires. In #52 he hopes for a rematch versus Fargo and meets sirens. He's dating another girl in #53.
Meets the Orb in #54 (March 1981) after "months on the open road" and "needing money". Show in Vegas. Dating Gina.
#55 Show in Vegas, Gina.
#56 Show in Vegas. Gina
#57 Dating Nora, preparing for rematch vs Fargo.
#58 Fargo rematch
#59 Chicago. Fargo rematch was "last week"
#60 Chicago
MTIO 80 (Oct 81) NYC jumping 16 cars
SOV 16-FB
MSU 6-FB NYC
GR2 61 Indiana
GR2 62 Indianapolis
SS3 14-FB
M/GN 1
SS@ 6-FB
A 214 New Mexico
CAGE2 3
CAGE2 4
GR2 63 Michigan joins Quentin Carnival]]]
3. Rather than fitting a square peg in a round hole and rewrite the continuities of the X-Men and Blaze, can the flashback itself be reinterpreted?
I'd rather place the parts with Ghost Rider at the Colosseum back in 1973, far away from the parts where he meets Wolverine. Let's say he gets a flash when the demon first possesses the kid but only intervenes when the kid starts killing at the orphanage.
I count the title/credits page in my story count.
"Many Years Ago" pages 6-12, this would be between X 138 & 139. (Pr. X, Wolverine, Kitty, Kurt)
13-16 Blaze and Roxanne (back in 1973)
17-22 X-Men (Pr. X, Wolverine, Kitty, Kurt, Piotr, Ororo, Warren)
23-24 Blaze & Roxanne (back in 1973)
25-31 Wolverine meets Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider 17
pages 11-13 Wolverine & Ghost Rider
Wolverine 36
Pages 1-3
Thoughts? Would you rather ignore Kitty? Ignore Roxanne? Insert Roxanne in Ghost Rider's 1980-81 continuity? Or split the flashback sequences like I did?
