Marvel Monsters: Monsters on the Prowl

[StrayLamb]

Looking at the listings for various characters who appear in Marvel Monsters: Monsters on the Prowl, i notice that in the Hulk chronology MM:MOTP is listed quite a bit further down the chronology compared with the other characters. In Hulk, MM:MOTP is listed somewhat after ASM@ 3, whereas in Giant-Man it is placed soemwhat earlier than ASM@ 3. I believe he earlier listing is more compatible with the story, and fits well with the placement of MM:MOTP in the chronologies for Beast, Thing, and Mr Fantastic. A better placement for MM:MOTP within the Hulk chronology may be between TTA 79/2 & TTA 80/2. This would fit well withing Hulk's own internal chronology and be more compatible with the placement of MM:MOTP in the other characters chronologies. Cheers, Nick.

[Michael]

This website has a good summary of the problems in placing Monsters on the Prowl:
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronoco ... n_th.shtml

[StrayLamb]

I'd like to revisit this topic, if you don't mind. Since this topic was started, Hulk's position in MM:MOTP has been moved to a position between TTA 79/2 and TTA 80/2 as proposed above, but i think a couple of other characters need tweaking as well. With the alteration to Hulk's chronology, Mole Man needs to be moved as well, as MM:MOTP still shows after TTA 81/2 in his chronology, and needs to be moved back to before TTA 80/2.

MOLE MAN/HARVEY RUPERT ELDER
FF@ 3
M/M:MOTP *MOVE TO HERE
TTA 80/2
TTA 81/2
M/M:MOTP *MOVE FROM HERE
A 40

I would also like to propose minor changes to the position of MM:MOTP in Hank Pym and Reed Richards chronologies. We know that MM:MOTP must take place after FF 51, but it doesn't necessarily have to occur during A 26 and A 27, or TTA 77/1 and TTA 78/1 (i'm making the distinction /1 in order to prevent confusion with TTA 77/2, etc.), where it seems to be placed simply to give a reason for Wasp not to have accompanied Giant-Man in MM:MOTP.

If we place MM:MOTP immediately after FF 51 and immediately before TTA 77/1, and allowing Wasp not to have accompanied Giant-Man for any number of possible reasons, then the Avengers and TTA's don't have to be broken up so much. The Collector chronology already has MM:MOTP listed prior to A 26, which i believe is correct. The only changes required would be for Hank Pym and Reed Richards, as follows..

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
FF 49
FF 50
SS3 123-FB
A 27-BTS *MOVE FROM HERE
FF 51
M/M:MOTP
A 27-BTS *MOVE TO HERE
FF 52
FF 53

GIANT-MAN/DR. HENRY JONATHAN PYM
A 22
M/M:MOTP *MOVE TO HERE
TTA 77
TTA 78 (1 - 7:3:1)
A 26 (5:3)
TTA 78 (7:3:2 - 7:4)
A 26 (5:4)
TTA 78 (7:5)
A 26 (5:5)
M/M:MOTP *MOVE FROM HERE
A 27-BTS

The overall combined chronology would appear like this..

TTA 78/2-79/2 [Hulk returns from the future, encounters Hercules]
FF 51 [Reed discovers the Negative Zone]
MM:MOTP [The Collector's monsters escape; Giant-Man, Thing, Hulk & Beast round them up]
TTA 77/1 [Namor confronts Hank Pym on his research platform]
TTA 78/1 (1-7:3:1) [Janet suggest to Hank that he could get to NYC before Namor if he became Giant-Man, but he tells her he can't leave his work]
A 26 (1-4) [Cap explains the use of the Visi-Projector]
TTA 78/1 (7:3:2-8:1) ~ A 26 (5:1-5:6) [Janet transforms into the Wasp, and heads off to warn the Avengers]
A 26 (5:7-20) [Janet is abducted by Attuma, gets a signal to the Avengers, who leave a message for Hawkeye]
A 27 [Hawkeye borrows an Aero-Sub from Mr Fantastic]
A 28-29 [The Avengers rescue Wasp from the Collector; now Goliath, Hank gets stuck at ten feet tall]
TTA 80/2-81/2 [Hulk is abducted by Tyrannus, battles Mole Man]

[Michael]

The problem is that Marvels 3 makes it seem like Attuma's flood in A 26 took place before FF 49-50.

[StrayLamb]

The problem is that Marvels 3 makes it seem like Attuma's flood in A 26 took place before FF 49-50.

Possibly because A 26 was published a little earlier than FF 49-50. My view is that Marvels 3 is a subjective retelling of Marvel history from a personal perspective, and may not have to be taken as a literal record of events. Frankly, the easiest way to deal with the numerous incongrueties of M/M:MOTP is to disavow it altogether, but if it's going to be taken as canon, then it seems to read better this way, even though it pushes the events of FF 49-51 a little further back in the timeline.

In order to place Attuma's flood before FF 49-50, we are left with a situation where Giant-Man, in the middle of a crisis involving the Wasp having gone on a mission alone, because he can't possibly leave his work, suddenly up and responds to a call from the Thing to come and battle monsters with him.

[Russ Chappell]

My view is that Marvels 3 is a subjective retelling of Marvel history from a personal perspective, and may not have to be taken as a literal record of events. Frankly, the easiest way to deal with the numerous incongrueties of M/M:MOTP is to disavow it altogether, but if it's going to be taken as canon, then it seems to read better this way, even though it pushes the events of FF 49-51 a little further back in the timeline.

I have a differing view. It's been previously established that writer Kurt Busiek took great pains to perform chronological analysis before writing the series, and his view, which we try to follow, was that A 26 took place before FF 49.

Now it's true that subsequent stories could potentially require that we revisit previous analyses and reshuffle things, and if truly necessary, reinterpreting that Phil Sheldon may have misremembered the order of events could be the way to go, but we only overrule Marvel's ordering of events if we can show that Marvel's order IS NOT POSSIBLE.

Unfortunately, "it seems to read better" doesn't rise to the level that we need. We may find oddities in Marvel's order, but unless it's categorically wrong, it is what it is.

[StrayLamb]

That's fair enough then. Mole Man still needs the reshuffle in his chronology, as shown above, in order to bring his appearance in line with the Hulk. This in no way alters the overall sheme of events.

Said scheme of events stands thus..

TTA 78/2-79/2 [Hulk returns from the future, encounters Hercules]
TTA 77/1 [Namor confronts Hank Pym on his research platform]
TTA 78/1 (1-7:3:1) [Janet suggest to Hank that he could get to NYC before Namor if he became Giant-Man, but he tells her he can't leave his work]
A 26 (1-4) [Cap explains the use of the Visi-Projector]
TTA 78/1 (7:3:2-8:1) ~ A 26 (5:1-5:6) [Janet transforms into the Wasp, and heads off to warn the Avengers]
A 26 (5:7-20) [Janet is abducted by Attuma, gets a signal to the Avengers, who leave a message for Hawkeye]
A 27 (1-20:3) [Hawkeye borrows an Aero-Sub from Mr Fantastic; Attuma's flood reaches its peak]
FF 48 (14-20) [There is a narrative gap of unspecified duration between pages 13 & 14, after the FF's return from their adventure with the Inhumans, during which time the flames they saw in the sky as they were returning to NYC have since disappeared; the Silver Surfer approaches the Earth, closely followed by Galactus]
FF 49 [FF vs Galactus]
FF 50 (1-13) [End of the threat from Galactus]
FF 50 (14-20) [Newspapers report on Galactus; the Thing starts roaming the streets; Johnny enrols in Metro College, meets Wyatt Wingfoot; they move into a dorm]
FF 51 (1-5:1) [A rainy night: Ben is taken in by the mysterious scientist, who turns himself into an exact duplicate of the Thing, transforming Ben back into his human form]
FF 51 [A few days later, Reed is working on his experimental dimensional portal, and discovers the Negative Zone; as the fake Thing sacrifices himself to save Reed, Ben Grimm transforms back into the Thing]
M/M:MOTP (1-3) [The Collector's monsters escape as the Mole Man attacks] {There must be a narrative gap here of unspecified duration, during which time, some of the Collector's monsters make their way thru the Mole Man's tunnels to NYC, and during which time the Canadian authorities (presumably Dept H/Alpha Flight) apprehend the Collector and the Mole Man}
M/M:MOTP (4-28) [Giant-Man, Thing, Hulk & Beast round up the monsters that have escaped thru to NYC, with all attendant continuity problems]
A 27 (20:4-20:5) [As the Avengers return to the mansion, they find a message coming thru concerning the Wasp]
A 28-29 [Hank Pym advises the Avengers that the Wasp is six hours overdue, and asks for their help in locating her; the Avengers rescue Wasp from the Collector; now Goliath, Hank gets stuck at ten feet tall] {Although it doesn't appear to be the case at a casual reading, there has in fact been a large period of time elapsed since Wasp was abducted; Hank Pym's statement that Janet is six hours overdue can be explained in a number of ways - for instance, Janet may have told Hank Pym (off panel) that once she had alerted the Avengers to the possible threat posed by Namor, she was intending to spend some time in NYC shopping, visiting friends, etc. (i personally don't mind narrative gaps - they allow for any number of other events to be fitted in)}
TTA 80/2-81/2 [Hulk is abducted by Tyrannus, battles Mole Man]


Working out this timeline of events as they currently stand, an anomaly has become evident in Reed Richards' chronology, which has his BTS appearance in A 27 immediately prior to FF 51. As can be seen from the timeline above, FF 51 must occur after Hawkeye borrows the Aero-Sub from Reed in A 27, as this occurs prior to Attuma's final deluge. Hawkeye can only borrow the Aero-Sub from Reed during the narrative gap in FF 48. So Reed's chronology needs to be altered to allow his BTS appearance during Attuma's deluge to occur prior to the arrival of Galactus, as chronicled in Marvels 3.

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
FF 44
FF 45
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48 (1 - 17:5)
FF 48 (1-13) *CHANGE
A 27-BTS *MOVE TO HERE
FF 48 (14-17:5) *CHANGE
MARVELS 3 (16)-BTS
FF 48 (18-20) *CHANGE
FF 49
FF 50
SS3 123-FB
A 27-BTS *MOVE FROM HERE
FF 51
M/M:MOTP
FF 52
FF 53

[StrayLamb]

Actually, this section...

M/M:MOTP (1-3) [The Collector's monsters escape as the Mole Man attacks] {There must be a narrative gap here of unspecified duration, during which time, some of the Collector's monsters make their way thru the Mole Man's tunnels to NYC, and during which time the Canadian authorities (presumably Dept H/Alpha Flight) apprehend the Collector and the Mole Man}

...should go prior to prior to A 26 (1-4), so that all of the Collector's business with Wasp takes place after his battle with Mole Man, resulting in the release of his monsters.. Also, this fits with The Collector's chronology, which has his appearance in M/M:MOTP placed prior to A 26.

So we end up with this sequence of events..

TTA 78/2-79/2 [Hulk returns from the future, encounters Hercules]
TTA 77/1 [Namor confronts Hank Pym on his research platform]
TTA 78/1 (1-7:3:1) [Janet suggest to Hank that he could get to NYC before Namor if he became Giant-Man, but he tells her he can't leave his work]
M/M:MOTP (1-3) [The Collector's monsters escape as the Mole Man attacks] {There must be a narrative gap here of unspecified duration, during which time, some of the Collector's monsters make their way thru the Mole Man's tunnels to NYC, and during which time the Canadian authorities (presumably Dept H/Alpha Flight) apprehend the Collector and the Mole Man}
A 26 (1-4) [Cap explains the use of the Visi-Projector]
TTA 78/1 (7:3:2-8:1) ~ A 26 (5:1-5:6) [Janet transforms into the Wasp, and heads off to warn the Avengers]
A 26 (5:7-20) [Janet is abducted by Attuma, gets a signal to the Avengers, who leave a message for Hawkeye]
A 27 (1-20:3) [Hawkeye borrows an Aero-Sub from Mr Fantastic; Attuma's flood reaches its peak]
FF 48 (14-20) [There is a narrative gap of unspecified duration between pages 13 & 14, after the FF's return from their adventure with the Inhumans, during which time the flames they saw in the sky as they were returning to NYC have since disappeared; the Silver Surfer approaches the Earth, closely followed by Galactus]
FF 49 [FF vs Galactus]
FF 50 (1-13) [End of the threat from Galactus]
FF 50 (14-20) [Newspapers report on Galactus; the Thing starts roaming the streets; Johnny enrols in Metro College, meets Wyatt Wingfoot; they move into a dorm]
FF 51 (1-5:1) [A rainy night: Ben is taken in by the mysterious scientist, who turns himself into an exact duplicate of the Thing, transforming Ben back into his human form]
FF 51 [A few days later, Reed is working on his experimental dimensional portal, and discovers the Negative Zone; as the fake Thing sacrifices himself to save Reed, Ben Grimm transforms back into the Thing]
M/M:MOTP (4-28) [Giant-Man, Thing, Hulk & Beast round up the monsters that have escaped thru to NYC, with all attendant continuity problems]
A 27 (20:4-20:5) [As the Avengers return to the mansion, they find a message coming thru concerning the Wasp]
A 28-29 [Hank Pym advises the Avengers that the Wasp is six hours overdue, and asks for their help in locating her; the Avengers rescue Wasp from the Collector; now Goliath, Hank gets stuck at ten feet tall] {Although it doesn't appear to be the case at a casual reading, there has in fact been a large period of time elapsed since Wasp was abducted; Hank Pym's statement that Janet is six hours overdue can be explained in a number of ways - for instance, Janet may have told Hank Pym (off panel) that once she had alerted the Avengers to the possible threat posed by Namor, she was intending to spend some time in NYC shopping, visiting friends, etc. (i personally don't mind narrative gaps - they allow for any number of other events to be fitted in)}
TTA 80/2-81/2 [Hulk is abducted by Tyrannus, battles Mole Man]

The following characters still require the following ammendments to their chronologies..

COLLECTOR/TANELEER TIVAN
A 174 (14:2 - 14:4)-FB
M/M:MOTP (1-3) *CHANGE
A 26-BTS
A 27-BTS
M/M:MOTP (4-28)-BTS *ADD
{A 28}
A 51-FB
A 51

MOLE MAN/HARVEY RUPERT ELDER
FF@ 3
M/M:MOTP *MOVE TO HERE
TTA 80/2
TTA 81/2
M/M:MOTP *MOVE FROM HERE
A 40

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
FF 44
FF 45
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48 (1 - 17:5)
FF 48 (1-13) *CHANGE
A 27-BTS *MOVE TO HERE
FF 48 (14-17:5) *CHANGE
MARVELS 3 (16)-BTS
FF 48 (18-20) *CHANGE
FF 49
FF 50
SS3 123-FB
A 27-BTS *MOVE FROM HERE
FF 51
M/M:MOTP
FF 52
FF 53

PS - having spent the day reading everything thru again, it's possible to place Attuma's Flood (Avengers 26-27) immediately prior to FF 44, although this creates a disparity in issue dates. I've also realized that Invisible Girl's chronology would need to be ammended..

FF 48 (1 - 17:5)
FF 48 (1-13) *CHANGE
A 27-BTS *MOVE TO HERE
FF 48 (14-17:5) *CHANGE
MARVELS 3 (16)-BTS
FF 48 (18-20) *CHANGE
FF 49
FF 50
A 27-BTS *MOVE FROM HERE
FF 51

[michel]

TTA 78/2-79/2 [Hulk returns from the future, encounters Hercules]
TTA 77/1 [Namor confronts Hank Pym on his research platform]
TTA 78/1 (1-7:3:1) [Janet suggest to Hank that he could get to NYC before Namor if he became Giant-Man, but he tells her he can't leave his work]
M/M:MOTP (1-3) [The Collector's monsters escape as the Mole Man attacks] {There must be a narrative gap here of unspecified duration, during which time, some of the Collector's monsters make their way thru the Mole Man's tunnels to NYC, and during which time the Canadian authorities (presumably Dept H/Alpha Flight) apprehend the Collector and the Mole Man}
A 26 (1-4) [Cap explains the use of the Visi-Projector]
TTA 78/1 (7:3:2-8:1) ~ A 26 (5:1-5:6) [Janet transforms into the Wasp, and heads off to warn the Avengers]
A 26 (5:7-20) [Janet is abducted by Attuma, gets a signal to the Avengers, who leave a message for Hawkeye]
A 27 (1-20:3) [Hawkeye borrows an Aero-Sub from Mr Fantastic; Attuma's flood reaches its peak]
FF 48 (14-20) [There is a narrative gap of unspecified duration between pages 13 & 14, after the FF's return from their adventure with the Inhumans, during which time the flames they saw in the sky as they were returning to NYC have since disappeared; the Silver Surfer approaches the Earth, closely followed by Galactus]

...

PS - having spent the day reading everything thru again, it's possible to place Attuma's Flood (Avengers 26-27) immediately prior to FF 44, although this creates a disparity in issue dates.

I'm inclined to agree with your PS, because of Marvels #3. Attuma's flood happens during A 27 and MARVELS 3 (6 - 9:1). You have FF 48 (14 - 20) just after A 27 (1 - 20:3), the stones in the sky happen in MARVELS 3 (13:3) and up. But where do you put the flames in the sky from FF 48 (8:3 - 13) and MARVELS 3 (11:2 - 13:2), and the period shown in MARVELS 3 (9:2 - 11:1)? If you have it before the flood and A 27, then you have MARVELS 3 (9:2 - 13:2) before MARVELS 3 (6 - 9:1).

[StrayLamb]

Michel, i've started a new topic here to better discuss placements for MARVEL 3.

[Leoparis]

The placement of this story between A 26 and 27 does not work for Pym: By A 26 he's changed costume, is retired, is worried about Janet disappearing.

After reviewing this period based on the chronology of Marvels 3, StrayLamb found this issue has nowhere to go in that vicinity.

People got stuck with anachronisms when they tried to place it later than FF 51 (Negative Zone's first official appearance although it is "sub-space" that is described, cf. FF 37, page 5 for an earlier appearance of sub-space). See the notes for FF #37, 48 and 51 in The Official Marvel Index to the Fantastic Four (1985) by George Olshevsky for background. However Olshevsky makes a slight mistake as he conflates the distortion area (sub space) with the Negative Zone. There are no reasons to think the sub space of FF 37 is different from the sub space of FF 51.

I think the intention of writer Steve Niles was to actually write a prequel (place it earlier) so that the zone would get populated with Kirby monsters. There are a few clues going this way.

Indeed, an element left unexplained in M/MOTP's current placement is Giant-Man's earlier costume, he had a new one from Avengers 15.
To explain the costume we have a few possible placements: Before A 15; After he retires in TTA 69 & ASM@ 37/2; After he regains his powers in A 51.

First hypothesis I will cast aside: After A 51, Apr 68, when Pym regains his powers. In this case A 51 should occur before X 40, Jan 68. In X 39 when he receives his new costume, Beast complains it's too tight at the sleeves. So Beast might use the old costume while the new one gets adjusted. Captain America is in a jungle in TOS 98-100.

This hypothesis has the big drawback of Goliath going back to his old Giant-Man costume and then back to his Goliath costume.

The same drawback exists if we place the story After TTA 69.

It leaves Before A 15. Indeed why assume the creators involved in M/MOTP made a mistake?

I've reviewed arguments here and on other sites which placed it mistakenly later than FF 51 and after Hulk's identity got revealed. My own review below establishes these are unwarranted conclusions.

Review of chronological elements in M/MOTP:
Pages 1-3 Collector and Mole Man, can take place anytime since both characters have been around since before the Marvel era.
Page 4 Banner getting to Baxter Building and talking to Ben Grimm. Ben calls him "Blythe Danner".
Note: Ben Grimm has known Hulk's dual identity since FF 12. He met Banner there and then saw an unconscious Hulk turn into Banner in Hulk & Thing: Hard Knocks 4. So this does not need to take place after Banner's secret is publicly revealed.

Page 5 "Ross attacked me... as usual. I warned him not to make me mad." While it may read as Ross knowing Banner is Hulk, there are other scenarios where this can happen without Ross knowing: 1. Banner warned Ross not to make the Hulk mad. 2. Hulk warned Ross not to make him mad.

"Reed is in the Negative Zone." It has been assumed that this must be after FF 51, where Reed discovers the Negative Zone. There is another possibility: that FF 51 only mentions the exploration of the sub-space, since that is what FF 51 actually says. It suggests the "sub-space" Reed describes in FF 51 refers to the distortion area used to access the Negative Zone. This new sequence of events reads like Reed first discovered the Negative Zone in M/MOTP and then explored and described the sub-space in FF 51. Indded, the lifeline used in FF 51 looks like a further precaution from the loose monitoring in M/MOTP.

If you put FF 51 before M/MOTP, Ben's very casual monitoring after the Zone cost his double's life would be uncharacteristic. It reads better the other way around (M/MOTP before FF 51) with enhanced lifeline security the second time.

Page 6 Ben tries to share memories but Banner explains to him he doesn't remember much as the Hulk. This points to an early meeting between them.

Note: The comment that the Collector has been apprehended can be kept or dismissed. And there is no need to break pages 1-3 from the next pages.

Per Ben, "Cap sent a message the Avengers had business in Moscow and the X-Men are in some jungle."
Ben also says he has not seen Spider-Man for a while.

Notes: By placing M/MOTP earlier than FF 51 we can look for a story where the X-Men or Avengers are in the jungle. I found no story about Moscow. M/MOTP can also be read as the story that makes the Negative Zone more dangerous by populating it with monsters. The plot suggests this interpretation and it does explain Giant-Man's early costume.

Since Beast joins Ben & Hulk, the X-Men are not in some jungle at this time (they were in a jungle in X 9, Jan 65).

Now, Ben Grimm swapped sounds when he called Banner "Blythe Danner." He's in a weird mood, maybe he finds it funny to swap bits of information. So I checked whether the Avengers are in a jungle (and the X-Men in Moscow). The Avengers are in communist Sin-cong in A 18, Jul 65. Cap is in a South American jungle in A 15, Apr 65 but both of those happen after Giant-Man adopted a new costume.

In any case Ben is bored, in the mood for a fight and is not truthful so I suggest to place this soon after X 9 (X-Men in Savage Land jungle) as there is a big enough gap between Spider-Man's appearances in Untold Tales of Spider-Man ’97 Annual and A 11 to match two out of three of Ben's statements. By X 9 all the characters had already met each other (A 1-2, FF 11, 25 & 28, X 9) so they can be chummy.

Timeline:
X 9 Jan 65 X-Men in Savage Land jungle
...
A 15 Apr 65 Cap in South American jungle, new Giant-Man costume
...
TTA 69 Jul 65 last Giant-Man feature
...
JIM 117-119 Jun-Aug 65 Thor in Southeast Asian jungle
...
Avengers 18 Jul 65 Southeast Asian Jungle
Fantastic Four 39 (5 - 20)
Fantastic Four 40-43
...
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 37/2 last Giant-Man app
---
A 26 return of Pym, flood
FF 48-51 Galactus, description of "Sub-Space" leading to Negative Zone
A 27

Placing the story after X 9 places Reed Richards between FF 32 & 37. This is the period during which Richards is planning to travel to the Skrull Galaxy (FF 37) to avenge the death of Sue's father in FF 32. In FF 37 he calls "sub-space" the hyperspace he goes through to reach the Andromeda galaxy. His research into faster-than-light travel most probably led him to the discovery of the sub-space leading to the Negative Zone.

Conclusion: The notion that the story had to happen after FF 51 was a mistaken assumption. Giant-Man's costume, the loose monitoring of Reed's exploration by Ben, the populating event, all point to a prequel. There is nothing either in Ben and Bruce's relationship nor in Collector or Mole Man's chronologies preventing this earlier placement.


Suggested corrections:
BEAST/HENRY "HANK" PHILIP MCCOY
X 9
M/M:MOTP move here
XG /2
FF 36
...
X 21
[M/M:MOTP] move from here
X 22

COLLECTOR/TANELEER TIVAN
A 174 (14:2 - 14:4)-FB
M/M:MOTP (1 - 3) delete range
A 26-BTS
A 27-BTS
M/M:MOTP (4 - 28)-BTS delete
{A 28}

GIANT-MAN/DR. HENRY JONATHAN PYM
X 9
M/M:MOTP move here
ANADA 15-FB
TTA 63
HSMASHA 1
A 11
...
A 26 (5:5)
M/M:MOTP move from here
A 27-BTS

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
TTA 63/2 (1 - 3:6)
M/M:MOTP move here
HSMASHA 1
...
M/M:DDINO
M/M:MOTP move from here
TTA 81/2-FB

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
FF 33
M/M:MOTP move here
FF 34
...
FF 51
M/M:MOTP move from here
FF 52

MOLE MAN/HARVEY RUPERT ELDER
FF 31 (7:4 - 21)
M/M:MOTP move here
A 12-FB what is this? It cannot be 3:2. delete?
...
FF@ 3
M/M:MOTP move from here
TTA 80/2

THING II/MAJ. BENJAMIN J. GRIMM
ST 128
M/M:MOTP move here
FF 34
...
FF 51
M/M:MOTP move from here
FF 52

[StrayLamb]

The argument made above by Leoparis makes a lot of sense. We've had nine months to think about it. Anyone have any other ideas or comments?

The recent (2019) story-arc in Fantastic Four has the pre-FF launch to a planet 44 light years away in the Marvel-1. [One of my favorite stories from 2019.] This implies that Reed had already discovered sub-space some time prior to the launch in FF 1.

MOLE MAN/HARVEY RUPERT ELDER
FF 31 (7:4 - 21)
M/M:MOTP move here
A 12-FB what is this? It cannot be 3:2. delete?
...
FF@ 3
M/M:MOTP move from here
TTA 80/2

MOLE MAN/HARVEY RUPERT ELDER
---
FF 31 (7:4 - 21)
A 12-FB (3:5) Mole Man has rebuilt his underground empire
M/M:MOTP <<< move here
...
FF@ 3
M/M:MOTP move from here
TTA 80/2
---