The post-Inferno to end of the Krakoa era X-titles thread

[Midnighter]

The latest episode of Marvel's Voices Unlimited, which introduces Kid Juggernaut, is likely to be a hot mess from a continuity standpoint.
There is the presence of the original five X-Men and Professor X, in the Krakoan period (besides the costumes it is highlighted by a poster of a Luna Snow concert live from Krakoa). Although previous episodes of this serial ("Unlike any other") seemed likely to take place post-Krakoa (particularly the Escapade episode), this one should take place well before the third Hellfire Gala.
Jean is wearing the costume post-second Hellfire Gala, Beast is on friendly terms with everyone so he has not yet been killed by Wolverine, and more generally the X-Men are moving through Vancouver without any problems.
Later Kid Juggernaut makes contact with Carol Danvers (who wears the costume that made her debut at the last Hellfire Gala) to join the new Avengers Academy, but we have to assume that it was actually quite some time from his conversation with Xavier (before Fall of X) to his meeting with Captain Marvel (at the same time as the recruitment of all the other young heroes seen in the previous episodes).

[Clive_Reston]

I agree that it might well be a mess, but I think it's likely to be post-Krakoa again. The Luna Snow poster is in our protagonist's bedroom rather than on a public wall (and could well have been there for a very long time), mutants have the prerogative to wear their old costumes when they feel like it ("mutant fashion"), Beast is (or may be) the friendly New Defenders-period Beast as of the end of X-Force #50... Xavier hanging out with the O5 X-Men is a little weird, given what's going on in other titles, but we'll see where that goes.

As for other titles this week: Wolverine #49 and X-Men Forever #3 are right after the previous issues of their respective series, no surprises there. Giant-Size X-Men #1 (the Angel one; would it have killed them to add a subtitle?) is during the Fall of X period--after the '23 Gala, but sometime during the ten-week gap before Dark X-Men #1 (after which Angel is unavailable).

It is also one of two stories out the same day to make an "angel investor" joke! (And the backup feature is a reprint of MTIO #68; I'd have thought Marvel Fanfare #40 would be the obvious choice, but nope.)

[Michael]

As for other titles this week: Wolverine #49 and X-Men Forever #3 are right after the previous issues of their respective series, no surprises there.

What's complicated about X-Men Forever 3 is that Old Cable, Manifold and Nightcrawler literally teleport in whenever the plot requires and Emma is continuing her telepathic radio service that she's been providing throughout this crossover. Old Cable was last seen going to fight Orchis with Young Cable in Cable 4- presumably this takes place after that scene and Young Cable is fighting Orchis robots elsewhere. Manifold and Nightcrawler are difficult since at the end of Fall of the House of X 4 Manifold teleports the X-Men's craft into Sentinel City and Nightcrawler damages the machinery. So does this take place before or after the attack on Sentinel City? (It should be noted that the attack on Sentinel City SEEMS to take place concurrently with Apocalypse's appearance in Fall of the House of X 4 and therefore before Apocalypse's appearance in Rise of the Powers of X 4, which leads into X-Men Forever 2.)
As for Emma, she makes contact with Rachel in this issue. In X-Men 34, Emma is trying to kill Xavier because of his betrayal. Rachel knows Xavier's betrayal is part of the plan. So does Emma's appearance in this issue take after X-Men 34 or did Rachel simply not tell Emma about that part of the plan?

[Clive_Reston]

X-Men Forever 4 arrives the week after #3, and takes place immediately after it, during the time that Xavier is colluding with Nimrod. As for Michael's question about whether it's before or after X-Men #34, that hasn't been definitively answered yet, but note that 1) Emma is very cagey about what is to be done about Xavier, and 2) the plan specifically involves Enigma not finding out what's going on, which means that nobody who knows about it can speak it out loud, AND Enigma has to believe that the X-Men are really trying to kill Xavier.

Ms. Marvel: The Mutant Menace #3 takes place at a time when Kamala believes that Scott Summers is in Orchis custody, and is (despite its trade dress) definitely happening before Fall of the House of X--maybe (tentatively) somewhere around the time of the final X-Force and Wolverine storylines, circa the "many days later" break in the middle of Invincible Iron Man 14.

(The more I look at it, the tighter the timing for all of FotHoX/RotPoX gets; it seems to be happening in the course of a few days tops. As I discussed before, X-Men 30 must be an unmarked flashback that takes place before the final scene of X-Men 28. But then we get a whole string of contingencies: the Firestar scene in the second half of Invincible Iron Man 14 has to be shortly before the Firestar scene in X-Men 30, which then has to be followed in relatively short order by X-Men 28 (17-20) and 29, with 31 pretty soon after that, in which the green light is given for FotHoX 1's action to start. Meanwhile, X-Men Red 16-18 (and that story's follow-up, X-Men Unlimited Infinity Comic 118-120) have to be after X-Men 28's initial scene for Sunfire; Resurrection of Magneto 1-3 seems to start sometime after that but before the word comes to start the attack in FotHoX, and 4 is pretty shortly after those and leads directly into Invincible Iron Man 17-18.)

[Michael]

Also this week was X-Men Unlimited 139. The weird thing about it was that Khora was helping X-Corp. X-Men Unlimited 129-130 feature Gambit and Feint and seem to take place before Fall of the House of X 1. But Khora appears in Fall of the House of X 3, and she starts that story waiting to be teleported to Earth. It would be weird for Khora to travel to Earth before X-Men Unlimited 139, travel back to Mars before Fall of the House of X 3. and stand around waiting to be teleported back to Earth. So I guess that X-Men Unlimited 139 takes place after Fall of the House of X 3- presumably there's a gap between issues 130 and 131. Presumably Emma sensed X-Corp was having problems with Selene and had Illyana or Manifold teleport Khora to help them.
One other weird thing- at the end of X-Men Forever 4, Proteus seems to be trapped in the White Hot Room. But on page 3 of X-Men Forever 3, someone who looks like Iceman or Proteus seems to be fighting alongside the heroes against the Sentinels. And the last time we saw Bobby in his own series, he was trying to pull himself back together. So I guess it WAS iceman, Bobby recovered off panel and then followed Apocalypse off-panel to the site of the Sentinel battle?

[Midnighter]

But on page 3 of X-Men Forever 3, someone who looks like Iceman or Proteus seems to be fighting alongside the heroes against the Sentinels.

He could also be anyone else who has energy powers or the like.... Match? Rain Boy?

[Midnighter]

So, Fall of the House of X 5 follows directly on from the events of the previous issue, but we need to understand how the events of X-Men: Forever 4 fit into the narrative, particularly regarding Nightcrawler and Manifold.
Meanwhile, the Amazing Spider-Man 50 mail page says that the note regarding the development of the cure in AMS 45 was meant to refer to X-Men 31, not X-Men 29, thus placing the events after the events of Fall of the House of X.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's hard to pinpoint when Nightcrawler's and Manifold's adventures in X-Men Forever 3-4 take place, especially since Manifold and Nightcrawler don't reference it when they arrive on Krakoa at the end. Kurt even says, "Krakoa lives! You're doing, Apocalypse?"
Meanwhile, in Rise of the Powers of X 4, Omega Sentinel tells Xavier "Humanity must be crushed and your X-Men are attempting to destroy our solar weaponry aboard Sentinel City." She then asks Xavier for an alternate means of destruction (the nuclear codes) while Moira watches. When can this scene take place? In Fall of the House of X 4-5 the X-Men try to destroy Sentinel City, Omega Sentinel and Nimrod fight them and Kwannon kills Omega Sentinel's personality, enabling the real Karima's personaiity to reassert itself. Are we supposed to believe that Omega Sentinel decided to teleport to Earth in the middle of the battle, question Xavier and then teleports back to Sentinel City in time for her brain to be fried by Kwannon?

[Clive_Reston]

[NOTE: now altered to account for Logan being, like, everywhere.]

OK! I see a path for this to work with minimal fudging. It involves a not-unreasonable scene break in Fall of the House of X 4, between pages 13 and 14; it also means that Apocalypse killing Wrongslide appears as an unlabeled flashback later in that issue (which is also reasonable--I can't imagine the Apocalypse/Wrongslide fight even goes on long enough for pages 10-14 to happen in real time).

During Apocalypse's quasi-Crucible, the sun's rays are focused on Earth via Sentinel City. (FotHoX 4 6-9)

Apocalypse kills Wrongslide. (FotHoX 4 15-16 -FB, 18 -FB)

Emma, Scott and crew are aboard the SWORD station (Logan doesn't seem to be there); Xavier contacts Scott and everyone realizes that the Prof has betrayed them. (FotHoX 4 10-13)

SNEAKY BREAK HERE, after Scott says "it didn't have to be this way."

Apocalypse starts carrying Krakoa-the-tree home; presumably that is not instantaneous. Hope briefs the troops on that (for which Krakoa has to be conscious enough to be able to communicate it via Sinister-with-Doug's-gift anyway). Rasputin is unhappy that Sinister is there. (RotPoX 4 15-16)

Sinister gets Krakoa to bud flowers to transport the troops. (X-Men Forever 2 15-16)

Apocalypse reaches Krakoa as the flowers open. (RotPoX 4 17-18)

Karima tells Xavier that "your X-Men are attempting to destroy our solar weaponry aboard Sentinel City." (Perhaps Forge built a Destruct-O-Beam that didn't work out or something; the subsequent "teleporting the space station right into it" thing seems like a last-ditch sort of attack.) That is, I believe, the last we see of Karima and Xavier together; after this, Karima presumably heads off to Sentinel City to defend it. (RotPoX 4 19)

Exodus and Rachel kick ass on Krakoa; Mother Righteous talks to Enigma. (RotPoX 4 20-21)

The pyre is lit. (X-Men Forever 2 17-18)

The pyre is burning. (RotPoX 4 22)

The pyre goes kaboom. (X-Men Forever 2 19-20)

The fight on Krakoa-the-big-island continues; Doug wakes up; Shaw helps him out. Hope and Jean are in the WHR. Presumably while Scott and the team are trying to figure out what to do about Sentinel City, Manifold, who is after all pretty in tune with the universe, realizes he's got stuff he needs to do. He turns up on Krakoa and transports Kurt and his parents. Then there's the scene at the Arbor, and Manifold is having troubles getting to the WHR, but Hope goes back there. (X-Men Forever 3)

Sentinels keep attacking Pacific Krakoa. We see more of Hope and Jean in the WHR, crosscut with the scene in the past in Anchorage. Manifold transports the Darkhölme crew to see Xavier at an Orchis base--at this point Karima is not present. More of the Anchorage scene, more of the White Hot Room, more of the business on the Pacific and Atlantic Krakoas. (X-Men Forever 4) Then, presumably, Manifold returns to the S.W.O.R.D. station.

Scott (on the SWORD station, where Logan still doesn't seem to be present) comes up with a last-possible-option brute-force plan, which is to have Manifold transport the whole damn station into Sentinel City. (But first Emma has to go back to Earth... and Manifold's "hang on" is partly "I gotta negotiate this with the universe, and also I have a couple of other things to do, and wouldn't you like Logan here?") (FotHoX 4 14)

Emma, having returned to Earth, fights a Sentinel and gets the resistance in gear. Synch and Laura fight M.O.D.O.K. Kate frees Caliban, then Logan finds Kate, then (presumably) Manifold shows up and is like "look, Logan, we're going to need you for the big fight, can Kate maybe do this with Kamala or somebody?" (X-Men 34; who knows, maybe #700 will tell us differently).

Logan, having returned with Manifold to the S.W.O.R.D. station, is present when it gets stabbed into Sentinel City. He likes stabby things. (FotHoX 4 17)

Big fight on Sentinel City, where Karima is now present. (FotHoX 4 19-22)

Big fight continues; there are Nimrods in Sentinel City (where Logan is now present too), NYC and Washington, D.C. Karima's Sentinel brain is fried something something focused totality. Storm shows up. Electromagnets, how do they work? Etc. Then, Kate and Kamala fail to find Xavier. Manifold, Cyclops and Lactuca share a moment, since the big problem is now Enigma. Everyone gets back to Krakoa. Scott tells the absent Jean "we need you to rise again." (FotHoX 5)

In the WHR, the Phoenix rises. On Krakoa, Rasputin declares victory, and Askani feels that Jean's alive. Jean and Enigma duel, while Xavier and Moira.exe confer. Jean comes back to Krakoa. "One week later," Xavier turns himself in. We see timeline . (RotPoX 5)

Also this week: Wolverine #50 (which wraps up the storyline that's been running since #41; the second story is Logan and Jubilee at some unspecified point in the '90s, the third is not so much a story as Logan ruminating on his Krakoan period), and X-Men: The Wedding Special (vol. 2!!) #1, a six-chapter thing that appears to be set after FotHoX/RotPoX is all over (and includes a nifty little continuity insert from roughly the Muir Island X-Men period). One backup story is the first print appearance of the Iceman story from Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic (2022) #1 (which my order has during the kinda slack period after Trial of Magneto/New Mutants 24/GSX: Thunderbird); the other is a reprint of the Mystique story from X-Factor Annual 6. Magneto also turns up, post-Krakoan-era, in Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver #4.

[Michael]

the second story is Logan and Jubilee at some unspecified point in the '90s,

in the second story "the old guy's mansion" is mentioned. So this has to be after the mansion was rebuilt in 1991, so after the Muir Island Saga. Also, the dialogue implies that Jubilee only knows about Sentinels from what Beast told her, so this should be before Wolverine 72, where she fights Sentinels.
I guess we're assuming that Xavier's appearance in Marvel Voices 100 takes place in the one week gap in Rise of the Powers of X 5. It is a bit odd that nobody's trying to arrest Xavier or comments on his legal status but...
Iceman appears in Rise of the Powers of X 5. So I guess it was him in X-Men Forever 3.
In other news, Hellverine 1 has to take place after Sabretooth War for obvious reasons once Hellverine's identity is revealed. On the one hand, Hellverine has presumably been around since before the mass resurrection in X-Men Forever 2/ Rise of the Powers of X 4 and that's why he couldn't be resurrected. OTOH , Wolverine doesn't seem to be hiding from Orchis (he's in a bar in Virginia). So probably shortly after Rise of the Powers of X 5.